Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Trump is about one day away from hiring a lawyer who advertises on buses.
1686692606845.png
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
Trump is about one day away from hiring a lawyer who advertises on buses.
View attachment 62294
That may be literally true:

>>>One of the lawyers fighting the Department of Justice on Donald Trump's behalf was hired after the former president saw him on TV, according to a report.

The New York Times reported the detail on Sunday about the hiring of Jim Trusty, a former federal prosecutor. It cited unnamed people close to Trump for the information.<<<


Trusty quit a few days ago, so Trump may have tapped out the supply of TV lawyers who are willing to represent him.
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
The million dollar question, if he is acutally convicted, found guility on all counts, will he get any luxury prison time or just made to pay some huge fine and be bared from any political movement.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
The million dollar question, if he is acutally convicted, found guility on all counts, will he get any luxury prison time or just made to pay some huge fine and be bared from any political movement.
I'm not certain about this, but I believe the present version of the Espionage Act specifies sentences, including a range of prison times. I don't know if monetary fines can be substituted. @Mr._Clark ?
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I'm not certain about this, but I believe the present version of the Espionage Act specifies sentences, including a range of prison times. I don't know if monetary fines can be substituted. @Mr._Clark ?
I asked my retired DOJ wife , and she noted he could be made to pay if found quality on all 37 charges, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 -$20,000 for each count and/or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both. But is going to be up to the prosecutors and the judge
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
There has been a case with some similarities to Trump's charges.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_T._Martin

Martin plead guilty to charges under the Espionage Act, and is now serving a 9 year sentence. He hoarded a very large amount of classified documents, in digital form, keeping them in his home. Similar to Trump's case (as it now appears), there was no evidence that Martin actually gave or sold any of those documents to anyone, including potential enemies. But they both took significant documents from secure facilities and kept them without authorization. Both showed no sign or willingness to return them.

I'm not sure about Martin, but Trump also appears to have committed significant obstruction of justice in the federal efforts to investigate and recover the documents he took and apparently meant to keep.

Interestingly, Jack Smith, who investigated and is prosecuting the Trump case, also prosecuted that Martin case.
 
Last edited:
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
The million dollar question, if he is acutally convicted, found guility on all counts, will he get any luxury prison time or just made to pay some huge fine and be bared from any political movement.
I doubt that anyone knows the answer to those questions right now.

The answers also depend somewhat on what we mean by "convicted." A person who is convicted in a trial may still win on appeal, and a conviction isn't final in any real sense until all appeals are exhausted. For example, Elizabeth Holmes was indicted on June 15, 2018 but she was not incarcerated until May 30, 2023. Trump's lawyers would undoubtedly be able to delay his incarceration for much longer.

Having said that, here are my highly speculative best guesses.

If he's convicted on all 37 counts I highly doubt he'd walk away with a fine. I haven't reviewed the federal sentencing guidelines for these crimes, but I'd be shocked if a fine is within the guidelines, and I have a hard time seeing the courts deviating wildly (again, we're assuming conviction on all 37 counts).

Assuming he's sentenced to incarceration, exactly what this would entail is (in my opinion) very unclear. Realistically, throwing him into an existing (unmodified) Federal Prison would create numerous problems (e.g. another prisoner puts a knife to his throat and says "Tell me the nuke codes!"). My best guess is that an existing facility would be heavily modified to provide security (and something akin to a country club environment). He wouldn't be hopping on his jet, though.

With regards to him being barred from any political movement, the court doesn't have the power to bar him from future office because it is not one of the potential consequences defined in the laws he's been charged with. In theory, the disqualification clause could be invoked, but it would require a separate legal action and no one really knows how it would be implemented.

>>>Could the disqualification clause prevent Donald Trump from running for president in 2024?

Theoretically, yes. Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment gives Congress the power to disqualify someone who has already held a public office from holding "any office" if they participate in an "insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.

But since this mechanism has never been used against a president, there are still questions to resolve [editorial comment: this is the understatement of the century!]. The disqualification clause applies to current and former federal officials, state officials, and military officials. However, legal scholars are split on whether the disqualification clause applies to the presidency.<<<


I strongly suspect that the trial in the Florida case will drag out well past the 2024 election. I can't imagine that the disqualification clause would be invoked in a separate legal action before the Florida case has concluded (an acquital is outside the proposed hypothetical, but in the real world this possibility would make disqualification much less likely if the trial is ongoing)(in my estimation the odds of disqualification before the trial is concluded are effectively zero).

What would happen if Trump were to win the election while the Florida case was still in the trial phase? I really don't know, but it would be a huge mess. I suspect (I'm really guessing on this one) Trump would attempt to pardon himself, and the trial would be put on hold while this issue was decided in the courts.

Even if Trump were to be convicted on all 37 counts, his lawyers would undoubtedly file appeal after appeal to delay incarceration, and many of the appeals would probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. As noted above, Elizabeth Holmes delayed it 5 years. A SWAG is that Trump could delay at least 10 years.

Odds are pretty decent that he'd die from natural causes before all of the legal proceedings were exhausted. Again, that's just a guess. I really don't know.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
… Realistically, throwing him [Trump] into an existing (unmodified) Federal Prison would create numerous problems (e.g. another prisoner puts a knife to his throat and says "Tell me the nuke codes!"). My best guess is that an existing facility would be heavily modified to provide security (and something akin to a country club environment). He wouldn't be hopping on his jet, though.
I respectfully submit this existing facility already owned by the US Government: Ft. Jefferson in Dry Tortugas National Park.
1686759744057.png

1686759379528.png
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Warlord
I doubt that anyone knows the answer to those questions right now.

The answers also depend somewhat on what we mean by "convicted." A person who is convicted in a trial may still win on appeal, and a conviction isn't final in any real sense until all appeals are exhausted. For example, Elizabeth Holmes was indicted on June 15, 2018 but she was not incarcerated until May 30, 2023. Trump's lawyers would undoubtedly be able to delay his incarceration for much longer.

Having said that, here are my highly speculative best guesses.

If he's convicted on all 37 counts I highly doubt he'd walk away with a fine. I haven't reviewed the federal sentencing guidelines for these crimes, but I'd be shocked if a fine is within the guidelines, and I have a hard time seeing the courts deviating wildly (again, we're assuming conviction on all 37 counts).

Assuming he's sentenced to incarceration, exactly what this would entail is (in my opinion) very unclear. Realistically, throwing him into an existing (unmodified) Federal Prison would create numerous problems (e.g. another prisoner puts a knife to his throat and says "Tell me the nuke codes!"). My best guess is that an existing facility would be heavily modified to provide security (and something akin to a country club environment). He wouldn't be hopping on his jet, though.

With regards to him being barred from any political movement, the court doesn't have the power to bar him from future office because it is not one of the potential consequences defined in the laws he's been charged with. In theory, the disqualification clause could be invoked, but it would require a separate legal action and no one really knows how it would be implemented.

>>>Could the disqualification clause prevent Donald Trump from running for president in 2024?

Theoretically, yes. Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment gives Congress the power to disqualify someone who has already held a public office from holding "any office" if they participate in an "insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.

But since this mechanism has never been used against a president, there are still questions to resolve [editorial comment: this is the understatement of the century!]. The disqualification clause applies to current and former federal officials, state officials, and military officials. However, legal scholars are split on whether the disqualification clause applies to the presidency.<<<


I strongly suspect that the trial in the Florida case will drag out well past the 2024 election. I can't imagine that the disqualification clause would be invoked in a separate legal action before the Florida case has concluded (an acquital is outside the proposed hypothetical, but in the real world this possibility would make disqualification much less likely if the trial is ongoing)(in my estimation the odds of disqualification before the trial is concluded are effectively zero).

What would happen if Trump were to win the election while the Florida case was still in the trial phase? I really don't know, but it would be a huge mess. I suspect (I'm really guessing on this one) Trump would attempt to pardon himself, and the trial would be put on hold while this issue was decided in the courts.

Even if Trump were to be convicted on all 37 counts, his lawyers would undoubtedly file appeal after appeal to delay incarceration, and many of the appeals would probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. As noted above, Elizabeth Holmes delayed it 5 years. A SWAG is that Trump could delay at least 10 years.

Odds are pretty decent that he'd die from natural causes before all of the legal proceedings were exhausted. Again, that's just a guess. I really don't know.
Does that apply to the Espionage Act charges, or the Obstruction of Justice charges?
 
cpp

cpp

Audioholic Ninja
I doubt that anyone knows the answer to those questions right now.

The answers also depend somewhat on what we mean by "convicted." A person who is convicted in a trial may still win on appeal, and a conviction isn't final in any real sense until all appeals are exhausted. For example, Elizabeth Holmes was indicted on June 15, 2018 but she was not incarcerated until May 30, 2023. Trump's lawyers would undoubtedly be able to delay his incarceration for much longer.

Having said that, here are my highly speculative best guesses.

If he's convicted on all 37 counts I highly doubt he'd walk away with a fine. I haven't reviewed the federal sentencing guidelines for these crimes, but I'd be shocked if a fine is within the guidelines, and I have a hard time seeing the courts deviating wildly (again, we're assuming conviction on all 37 counts).

Assuming he's sentenced to incarceration, exactly what this would entail is (in my opinion) very unclear. Realistically, throwing him into an existing (unmodified) Federal Prison would create numerous problems (e.g. another prisoner puts a knife to his throat and says "Tell me the nuke codes!"). My best guess is that an existing facility would be heavily modified to provide security (and something akin to a country club environment). He wouldn't be hopping on his jet, though.

With regards to him being barred from any political movement, the court doesn't have the power to bar him from future office because it is not one of the potential consequences defined in the laws he's been charged with. In theory, the disqualification clause could be invoked, but it would require a separate legal action and no one really knows how it would be implemented.

>>>Could the disqualification clause prevent Donald Trump from running for president in 2024?

Theoretically, yes. Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment gives Congress the power to disqualify someone who has already held a public office from holding "any office" if they participate in an "insurrection or rebellion" against the United States.

But since this mechanism has never been used against a president, there are still questions to resolve [editorial comment: this is the understatement of the century!]. The disqualification clause applies to current and former federal officials, state officials, and military officials. However, legal scholars are split on whether the disqualification clause applies to the presidency.<<<


I strongly suspect that the trial in the Florida case will drag out well past the 2024 election. I can't imagine that the disqualification clause would be invoked in a separate legal action before the Florida case has concluded (an acquital is outside the proposed hypothetical, but in the real world this possibility would make disqualification much less likely if the trial is ongoing)(in my estimation the odds of disqualification before the trial is concluded are effectively zero).

What would happen if Trump were to win the election while the Florida case was still in the trial phase? I really don't know, but it would be a huge mess. I suspect (I'm really guessing on this one) Trump would attempt to pardon himself, and the trial would be put on hold while this issue was decided in the courts.

Even if Trump were to be convicted on all 37 counts, his lawyers would undoubtedly file appeal after appeal to delay incarceration, and many of the appeals would probably go all the way to the Supreme Court. As noted above, Elizabeth Holmes delayed it 5 years. A SWAG is that Trump could delay at least 10 years.

Odds are pretty decent that he'd die from natural causes before all of the legal proceedings were exhausted. Again, that's just a guess. I really don't know.
Oh yes, this thing / circus could take years to come to a final end and all the while he will be in the news each and every freaking day. :mad:
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Samurai
That's the most depressing thing I've read today.
Now, now, cheer up.


Even if he did manage to delay incarceration following a conviction at trial, absent an early victory on appeal he would never know for sure what the outcome would be. It would be one h*ll of a sword of Damocles to live with.
 

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