So just what is it that bothers our maga folk about transgender particularly?

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davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Spartan
Drag Queens have no business reading to kids in elementary school or even junior high. Save it for college electives. Same with trans men competing with women. A slap in the face to women. As a mainly left leaning moderate this stuff goes way too far IMHO. And f you want to fix the bathroom issues just do what most restaurants do these days. Have unisex bathrooms available to everyone.
 
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GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
As long as habeas corpus isn't violated, as long as protected classes as they have been historically understood aren't violated, I have the answer I posted above.

At some point the accommodations have to be 'enough'.
You have an answer which, in the end, might not be the answer. The protected classes you mention (presumably those included in the American Civil Rights Act) , were at one time not protected. Transgender people may yet be included, regardless of your or my opinion.

It may come to a point where, in order to accommodate the transgender community, washrooms and locker rooms become individualized. The first reaction may be that it would be too cumbersome and expensive to implement, but they used to say that about accommodations for disabled people, too.
 
jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
You have an answer which, in the end, might not be the answer. The protected classes you mention (presumably those included in the American Civil Rights Act) , were at one time not protected. Transgender people may yet be included, regardless of your or my opinion.

It may come to a point where, in order to accommodate the transgender community, washrooms and locker rooms become individualized. The first reaction may be that it would be too cumbersome and expensive to implement, but they used to say that about accommodations for disabled people, too.
I think the context is reasonable accommodations. What is reasonable for an objectively handicapped person is different for a subjectively gendered person since gender is on a spectrum that can change with time (aka Demi Levato changing of pronouns multiple times).

And yes it may come to individual spaces like changing rooms at a store.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Spartan
It may come to a point where, in order to accommodate the transgender community, washrooms and locker rooms become individualized. The first reaction may be that it would be too cumbersome and expensive to implement, but they used to say that about accommodations for disabled people, too.
if that 'trans' community so requires those facilities let them pay for it ! Using the ADA as an example one needs to look no further than their own local community to see how and where Gov't(tax payer dollars) has been wasted.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Spartan
if that 'trans' community so requires those facilities let them pay for it ! Using the ADA as an example one needs to look no further than their own local community to see how and where Gov't(tax payer dollars) has been wasted.
It will mean they end up using one of the two regular bathrooms.
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Accommodations aren't the answer. Even pronouns are more accommodation than this lunacy warrants.

Why not simply be kind, out of inclusiveness, if it causes no harm? These poeple just want to live their authentic lives, and not face discrimination. Sounds reasonable. This is just the further expansion of the prior civil rights movement of the '60's, the women's rights movement of the '60's-'70's, and the gay rights movement of the '90's.

Except it's not. The difference between actual civil rights movements and the 'trans' movement is that none of them fought for rights on the basis of something they were not, or passing themselves as another demographic of people. Blacks didn't say "Hey, we're white!" and gays didn't say "Hey, we're straight!" and women didn't say "Hey, we're men!" They fought for rights on the basis of what set them apart.

'Trans' is about claiming the identities and rights of others. Men claiming to be women, women claiming to be men, straight men claiming to be lesbians.

It's the only movement that wants to identify into demographics of people that already exist within their own right.

Pardon the intersectional language, but it is a form of colonization. Not only that, it's an assault on the epistemic fabric of society. Under the guise of 'trans' the meaning of words and material reality all have to be turned upside down to 'accommodate' this colonization. Actual women are now 'cis' women so that men who call themselves 'trans women' can be seen to be every inch a woman as them, even if they have an extra couple inches dangling between their legs. Actual lesbians are now 'cis' lesbians and are told they can't hold female only events anymore because it would be breaking anti-discrimination laws that prioritize the demands of dudes in dresses who identify as lesbian.

This is co-opting, appropriation, colonization, and the rewriting of reality. By trying to identify into a class of people they don't belong to, they're killing off what that class represents. All because they are intent on killing off their own true identities.

We're seeing how dangerous this is, in sports, prisons, rape shelters, bathrooms, changing rooms, hospital wards, etc. It's becoming more clear every day.

And it's all rooted in a movement trying to make us believe they are not what they actually are. No other movement has ever done that, it's unique to the 'trans' movement. Just like "The Emperor's New Clothes" it was a sham from the very beginning.

Resist the claims that compare 'trans' activism to actual civil rights movements, that try to make it seem the same, that trans is simply the next frontier, and that we should learn from how earlier civil rights movements were historically discredited and not let the same fate befall the 'trans' movement.

But that's just a trick to disguise how 'trans' is intrusive, pretentious, deeply misogynistic and homophobic, illiberal, authoritarian, and regressive.

Just as men pretend to be women, this movement pretends to be a civil rights crusade. It's not.

As for any "they're coming for our kids" accusations of a moral panic, you bet your ass that's EXACTLY what they're doing. Did the gay rights movement ever say "My 3-year-old son is a homosexual and he needs gay rights"? No? I don't recall that either.

But for the 'trans' movement the myth of the 'trans child' is their very trump card, and so they try to sell it to us at every opportunity to justify the destruction of the hard won rights of the actual civil rights movements (not to mention the irreversible damage inflicted on 'trans' children via medicalization based on this biology- and ethics-defying quackery). It's foisted upon children in public elementary schools like a state sanctioned religion that teaches self loathing and body disphoria, with merchants ready to make a buck on that manufactured disphoria with virtue signalling paraphernalia, breast binders, and tucking panties. And the profit driven medical community is ready and waiting: Hey kids, we have a pill for that! Which will stunt your development and likely lead to even more pills, leaving you sterile and anorgasmic, and which you'll have to take for the rest of your natural life, which the pills will make shorter. And hey kids, we even have cosmetic surgeries, hooray! Although they are rife with adverse outcomes and frequent follow up surgeries required. And after all that, you'll still be the sex you were born as. See the documented case I am Jazz on TLC for a real life case study. Doesn't that sound just fabulous, kids? Come get yourself some Trans Joy!

Women's rights are regressing back to the 1950's era. Might as well get rid of Title IX if gender overrides sex as the defining characteristic. Women who say "No!" and speak up for their rights are called bigots, TERFs, and Nazis and literally physically assaulted. In 2023.

The biology defying foundational beliefs of the 'trans' movement are used it as a pretext for sterilizing and mutilating mostly gay kids, also something that happened the 1950's.

It's all just a pack of lies dressed up in baby pink and blue, the same old patriarchy but now in drag.
 
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C

coolbronco

Enthusiast
It's not fear as you say, but more of pushing stuff on us that we don't want and it's been the history and culture to not do those things. You have the right to be you as long as it doesn't infringe on my right to be me. So in other words, who cares if your gay or transgendered? Just don't go asking to compete against women and girls when you have a penis and balls. Don't go into the bathroom where my girls are when again you have penis and balls. Don't dress up in drag and go into Elementary schools where the backlighting of the program says, "It won't suck itself" where there are children present. You see these things infringe on me being me and what I want for my kids. So when your life culture conflicts with everyone elses life culture and you want to push it on us in sick and perverted ways, that's a problem. If that problem gets worse people will pull their kids out of school and I suspect we might have a culture war right here in America. The second civil war will be about morality vs. anything goes. I personally don't care if your black, white, hispanic, gay, lesbian, trans, or whatever. Why do you have to push your ideology onto others though, especially children. No it's not right, and really this is gaslighting.
 
C

coolbronco

Enthusiast
Bigotry. Plain and simple.
No it's not bigotry to not want men in the girls bathroom. It's not bigotry to not want men competing with girls in sports. It's not bigotry to not want drag shows with the background lit up that says. "It won't suck itself." in Elementary schools. You are a total ______ for saying that anyone who challenges these ideas are bigots. Plain and simple.
 
C

coolbronco

Enthusiast
The MAGA folks isn’t what I would call conservatives.

This post is more of what I’ve in mind:

You guys shut out any opposing view. How Hitlerish of you.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
No it's not bigotry to not want men in the girls bathroom. It's not bigotry to not want men competing with girls in sports. It's not bigotry to not want drag shows with the background lit up that says. "It won't suck itself." in Elementary schools. You are a total ______ for saying that anyone who challenges these ideas are bigots. Plain and simple.
I agree.
Fukk. the. World.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Accommodations aren't the answer. Even pronouns are more accommodation than this lunacy warrants.

Why not simply be kind, out of inclusiveness, if it causes no harm? These poeple just want to live their authentic lives, and not face discrimination. Sounds reasonable. This is just the further expansion of the prior civil rights movement of the '60's, the women's rights movement of the '60's-'70's, and the gay rights movement of the '90's.

Except it's not. The difference between actual civil rights movements and the 'trans' movement is that none of them fought for rights on the basis of something they were not, or passing themselves as another demographic of people. Blacks didn't say "Hey, we're white!" and gays didn't say "Hey, we're straight!" and women didn't say "Hey, we're men!" They fought for rights on the basis of what set them apart.

'Trans' is about claiming the identities and rights of others. Men claiming to be women, women claiming to be men, straight men claiming to be lesbians.

It's the only movement that wants to identify into demographics of people that already exist within their own right.

Pardon the intersectional language, but it is a form of colonization. Not only that, it's an assault on the epistemic fabric of society. Under the guise of 'trans' the meaning of words and material reality all have to be turned upside down to 'accommodate' this colonization. Actual women are now 'cis' women so that men who call themselves 'trans women' can be seen to be every inch a woman as them, even if they have an extra couple inches dangling between their legs. Actual lesbians are now 'cis' lesbians and are told they can't hold female only events anymore because it would be breaking anti-discrimination laws that prioritize the demands of dudes in dresses who identify as lesbian.

This is co-opting, appropriation, colonization, and the rewriting of reality. By trying to identify into a class of people they don't belong to, they're killing off what that class represents. All because they are intent on killing off their own true identities.

We're seeing how dangerous this is, in sports, prisons, rape shelters, bathrooms, changing rooms, hospital wards, etc. It's becoming more clear every day.

And it's all rooted in a movement trying to make us believe they are not what they actually are. No other movement has ever done that, it's unique to the 'trans' movement. Just like "The Emperor's New Clothes" it was a sham from the very beginning.

Resist the claims that compare 'trans' activism to actual civil rights movements, that try to make it seem the same, that trans is simply the next frontier, and that we should learn from how earlier civil rights movements were historically discredited and not let the same fate befall the 'trans' movement.

But that's just a trick to disguise how 'trans' is intrusive, pretentious, deeply misogynistic and homophobic, illiberal, authoritarian, and regressive.

Just as men pretend to be women, this movement pretends to be a civil rights crusade. It's not.

As for any "they're coming for our kids" accusations of a moral panic, you bet your ass that's EXACTLY what they're doing. Did the gay rights movement ever say "My 3-year-old son is a homosexual and he needs gay rights"? No? I don't recall that either.

But for the 'trans' movement the myth of the 'trans child' is their very trump card, and so they try to sell it to us at every opportunity to justify the destruction of the hard won rights of the actual civil rights movements (not to mention the irreversible damage inflicted on 'trans' children via medicalization based on this biology- and ethics-defying quackery). It's foisted upon children in public elementary schools like a state sanctioned religion that teaches self loathing and body disphoria, with merchants ready to make a buck on that manufactured disphoria with virtue signalling paraphernalia, breast binders, and tucking panties. And the profit driven medical community is ready and waiting: Hey kids, we have a pill for that! Which will stunt your development and likely lead to even more pills, leaving you sterile and anorgasmic, and which you'll have to take for the rest of your natural life, which the pills will make shorter. And hey kids, we even have cosmetic surgeries, hooray! Although they are rife with adverse outcomes and frequent follow up surgeries required. And after all that, you'll still be the sex you were born as. See the documented case I am Jazz on TLC for a real life case study. Doesn't that sound just fabulous, kids? Come get yourself some Trans Joy!

Women's rights are regressing back to the 1950's era. Might as well get rid of Title IX if gender overrides sex as the defining characteristic. Women who say "No!" and speak up for their rights are called bigots, TERFs, and Nazis and literally physically assaulted. In 2023.

The biology defying foundational beliefs of the 'trans' movement are used it as a pretext for sterilizing and mutilating mostly gay kids, also something that happened the 1950's.

It's all just a pack of lies dressed up in baby pink and blue, the same old patriarchy but now in drag.
Everything you said

Working in mental health the medical issues that await individuals that undergo the surgeries and hormone therapies and medications the problems with big pharma and doctors running with this for profit over correct diagnosis and treatments is what bothers me the most.

The pushing it on kids absolutely is not going to fly with me. That plane is never leaving the fu$%ing ground.

And as you perfectly pointed out the inclusion of they're rights over an already established groups rights due to they're perceptions of themselves is another hard pass with me.

As mentioned above I have no problem if your gay straight bi trans whatever. Whatever you need to do to help yourself find some peace. I'll respect that but don't expect my respect to mean I have to accept or agree with everything you do say or want. I can respect you and your rights without agreeing with you and if I'm willing to do that. You damn well better respect my rights for me and the ones I love even if you don't agree with me.

The trans community can vote they can marry. They are allowed to have children. They are like any other marginalized group protected in the work sector. They are able to have the same rights as anyone else. Just what the fu#$ are they exactly fighting for here?
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
You have an answer which, in the end, might not be the answer. The protected classes you mention (presumably those included in the American Civil Rights Act) , were at one time not protected. Transgender people may yet be included, regardless of your or my opinion.
They have all those protections however. Forced speech isn't a protected act.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
No it's not bigotry to not want men in the girls bathroom. It's not bigotry to not want men competing with girls in sports. It's not bigotry to not want drag shows with the background lit up that says. "It won't suck itself." in Elementary schools. You are a total ______ for saying that anyone who challenges these ideas are bigots. Plain and simple.
Where and when did this happen?
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
They have all those protections however. Forced speech isn't a protected act.
"Forced speech" may not be protected, per se, but not using preferred pronouns may be viewed by some as no better than using the N-word.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
There have been some strong stances taken in this thread on the issues (plural, as it isn't just one) surrounding transgenderism. Indeed, there isn't much room for nuance in the debate.

This piece on appropriate care for kids seems quite reasonable to me.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
That specific event, with the "It's not gonna lick itself" backdrop did not happen in a school (that I know of) but a gay bar "family friendly" event in Dallas last June.
BREAKING: Shocking scenes emerge from ‘child-friendly’ drag show in Dallas gay bar | The Post Millennial | thepostmillennial.com
View attachment 62265
If it had happened at a school, it would be quite inappropriate. Being staged at a bar, I would question parents' judgement more than anything else.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
If it had happened at a school, it would be quite inappropriate. Being staged at a bar, I would question parents' judgement more than anything else.
True but there have been a lot of incidents both caught on phone and in community meetings where these issues are coming up in the schools inappropriate books stuff like that. It's why parents are getting so volatile about this. They are not waking up one day going you know what I want to go be a bigot today. Legit things have happened in they're districts to piss them off.

In America most parents want to park they're kids off to school and get a break. Not saying it's right but it's the culture. For so many parents to be upset and this involved is speaking VOLUMES.

They're are a ton of actual live community meetings with parents and school boards on YouTube with parents dropping receipts on this stuff were talking about you should check them out. Pretty eye opening stuff
 
ski2xblack

ski2xblack

Audioholic Samurai
Just today the NHS England issued a statement that the primary intervention for GD children <18 will be psychosocial and psychological support and intervention, essential to differential diagnosis and patient safeguarding, which is viewed by the American Academy of Pediatrics and US gender clinics as unethical "conversion therapy." Good grief, that's rich, when medical transition is the most ghoulish conversion therapy imaginable. "Hey kid, you're not gay, that's your internalized transphobia. You clearly have a female psyche/spirit/gendersoul, merely trapped in the wrong body. So even though there is no diagnostic test or scan to confirm your female gendersoul, we can treat it anyway. Take this magic cure-all puberty blocker and begin your gender journey."

The news from the UK (and Norway, Sweden, etc.) gives me hope, but the capture of US healthcare is profound. Mayo just fired a guy for daring to publish research concerning the advantages of males over females in sport. Poof, fired, for what amounts to heresy against prevailing orthodoxy.

(Hyperbole aside, clinics across the country, particularly Planned Parenthood, are basically rubber-stamp approving of sending kids down the medical path, regardless of comorbidites and underlying history.)

The whole world is following the evidence and implementing restrictions on gender affirming care, while in the US, trans advocates, based on the very same evidence that European countries assessed, claim "the science is settled" and there can be "no debate."

It may take an avalanche of lawsuits from detransitioners and victims of this butchery for the US medical establishment to get the memo.
 
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jinjuku

jinjuku

Moderator
"Forced speech" may not be protected, per se, but not using preferred pronouns may be viewed by some as no better than using the N-word.
All that means is we can pick any word we want and make it no better than using the N-word.
 
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