AV10 & AMP10 Unboxing

[Sawtaytoes]

Receiver Power Consumption Rating vs Output Power Is Not Watt You Think!

Ever wonder how your favorite manufacturer rates power consumption on their AV receivers and how it relates to maximum available output power to your speakers? The answer may surprise you so read on.

www.audioholics.com

Thanks for that link! I spent hours looking for an article like that the other night.

I dunno if it's that page's SEO or my search terms, but I literally found nothing as if it was the first person who'd realized this discrepancy.

 

[gene]

Thanks for that link! I spent hours looking for an article like that the other night.

I dunno if it's that page's SEO or my search terms, but I literally found nothing as if it was the first person who'd realized this discrepancy.

what terms did you use?

try "amplifier power consumption ratings"

 

[Sawtaytoes]

I setup my AMP 10 tonight and it hit that protection mode with the red blinking light multiple times, and only 6 channels should be active in the Atmos media I tested even if 8 height channels are plugged in.

The Dolby Unfold demo trips it's protection mode right at the end with the words hitting the screen.

It also went into protection mode immediately after I turned it on.

Surprisingly, my Monolith 8250x also does this too where certain channels randomly turn off, but it's a heat issue. With fans on high, that unit worked fine. It also recovers from this mode automatically without having to pull the plug.

I removed the fans thinking 6 Polk Reserve R900s can't possibly stress this amp. Guess I was wrong.

I tried both BTL and regular mode, with only one speaker per 2 channels.

Something's wonky.

 

[PENG]

plug.

I removed the fans thinking 6 Polk Reserve R900s can't possibly stress this amp. Guess I was wrong.

The specs of the R900:

Tweeter	0.75" Pinnacle Ring Radiator
Mid-range/Mid-bass	-
Woofers	4” Turbine Cone
Overall Frequency Response	50 – 50kHz (when wall mounted)
Frequency Response (-3dB limits)	70 – 32kHz (when wall mounted)
Recommended Amplifier Power	45 - 100W
Amplifier Output Compatibility	8Ω / 6Ω / 4Ω
Minimum Impedance (ohms)	4.2Ω
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)	85.5dB (when wall mounted)

You are not wrong, the R900 can't possibly stress the Amp10.

I tried both BTL and regular mode, with only one speaker per 2 channels.

I can see potential trouble in BTL mode because of the speaker's impedance characteristics (hard to know for sure without seeing the curves), but not in regular mode.

Something's wonky.

Absolutely wonky, but more information might help speculate the reason why your amps went into protection mode, such as you volume setting at the time, what did auto setup/Audyssey set the speaker levels (trim) to, what did it tripped on, that is, overcurrent, thermal, short circuit etc.? Also, which Atmos demo clip that tripped it, how do you know if only drive 6 channels and specifically the 900, what happened to the tower LCR speakers?

 

[PENG]

I'm not understanding the power supply situation. The Monolith units both say they can use the full wall wattage, but it sounds like this is a different kind of design which is why it's only 500W right?

How do you get 200W per channel at 7 channels driven with 500W of power? Or is that 500W the reason you had issues bridging modules?

You are right, no one who knows enough basic electrical theory would say 200 WPC, 7 CH driven simultaneously (if that's what you meant) would draw 500W so please provide a link so I can read the full context. A blanket statement like that, without any qualifiers (e.g. exact test conditions) would not make sense.

 

[Sawtaytoes]

what terms did you use?

try "amplifier power consumption ratings"

My search terms were along these lines with pots of variations:
- "speaker watts same as amplifier watts?"
- "speaker watts different?"
- "amplifier watts 1:1"
- "amplifier watts not same"

 

[Sawtaytoes]

The specs of the R900:

Tweeter	0.75" Pinnacle Ring Radiator
Mid-range/Mid-bass	-
Woofers	4” Turbine Cone
Overall Frequency Response	50 – 50kHz (when wall mounted)
Frequency Response (-3dB limits)	70 – 32kHz (when wall mounted)
Recommended Amplifier Power	45 - 100W
Amplifier Output Compatibility	8Ω / 6Ω / 4Ω
Minimum Impedance (ohms)	4.2Ω
Sensitivity (2.83V/1m)	85.5dB (when wall mounted)

You are not wrong, the R900 can't possibly stress the Amp10.



I can see potential trouble in BTL mode because of the speaker's impedance characteristics (hard to know for sure without seeing the curves), but not in regular mode.



Absolutely wonky, but more information might help speculate the reason why your amps went into protection mode, such as you volume setting at the time, what did auto setup/Audyssey set the speaker levels (trim) to, what did it tripped on, that is, overcurrent, thermal, short circuit etc.? Also, which Atmos demo clip that tripped it, how do you know if only drive 6 channels and specifically the 900, what happened to the tower LCR speakers?

I use Dirac Live which typically sets me up for 82dB from my initial findings, and the volume was roughly -20dB.

I have two Unfold videos, and it was one in particular that caused the issue. Not the other.

It even went into over protection when I turned the unit on the first time and had no audio, but I had them all plugged in a BTL at the time.

I know it's 6 speakers because I only plugged in my heights. I have 8 heights, but Dolby uses 6. I left the other speakers in my other amp.

 

[ryanosaur]

I use Dirac Live which typically sets me up for 82dB from my initial findings, and the volume was roughly -20dB.

I have two Unfold videos, and it was one in particular that caused the issue. Not the other.

It even went into over protection when I turned the unit on the first time and had no audio, but I had them all plugged in a BTL at the time.

I know it's 6 speakers because I only plugged in my heights. I have 8 heights, but Dolby uses 6. I left the other speakers in my other amp.

Are you boosting any Trims in Dirac?

 

[Sawtaytoes]

Are you boosting any Trims in Dirac?

Yeah. I have the Harmon +10dB bass curve (the rest is flat). My crossover is at 80Hz, so the Harmon bass boost should only be in the subwoofer range.

It's possible I don't understand the curve screen in Dirac either.

 

[ban25]

I use Dirac Live which typically sets me up for 82dB from my initial findings, and the volume was roughly -20dB.

I have two Unfold videos, and it was one in particular that caused the issue. Not the other.

It even went into over protection when I turned the unit on the first time and had no audio, but I had them all plugged in a BTL at the time.

I know it's 6 speakers because I only plugged in my heights. I have 8 heights, but Dolby uses 6. I left the other speakers in my other amp.

Going into protection on first-power-on almost sounds like a short issue. Double-check your cabling?

Sounds like you are not using BTL anymore, which you definitely don't want to do with less than 8 Ohm speakers.

 

[gene]

I setup my AMP 10 tonight and it hit that protection mode with the red blinking light multiple times, and only 6 channels should be active in the Atmos media I tested even if 8 height channels are plugged in.

The Dolby Unfold demo trips it's protection mode right at the end with the words hitting the screen.

It also went into protection mode immediately after I turned it on.

Surprisingly, my Monolith 8250x also does this too where certain channels randomly turn off, but it's a heat issue. With fans on high, that unit worked fine. It also recovers from this mode automatically without having to pull the plug.

I removed the fans thinking 6 Polk Reserve R900s can't possibly stress this amp. Guess I was wrong.

I tried both BTL and regular mode, with only one speaker per 2 channels.

Something's wonky.

check for whiskers in your speaker cable terminations at the back of the amp and at your speakers. Make sure you rule out shorts. Try different channel pairs next. IF all else fails, you have a defective unit. Swap it out with your dealer.

 

[gene]

My search terms were along these lines with pots of variations:
- "speaker watts same as amplifier watts?"
- "speaker watts different?"
- "amplifier watts 1:1"
- "amplifier watts not same"

not great search terms for what you're looking for. And Google sucks lately too. Glad I was able to send you the link here. Hope it was helpful.

 

[Sawtaytoes]

check for whiskers in your speaker cable terminations at the back of the amp and at your speakers. Make sure you rule out shorts. Try different channel pairs next. IF all else fails, you have a defective unit. Swap it out with your dealer.

You called it Gene! Can't believe this was my issue all along!

I've only got banana plugs with no visible whiskers, so I turned the volume up to 0dB, went to SPL test in the receiver to measure volumes, and it went into protection as soon as front height right started.

All 7 other height speakers worked.

When I went behind, I saw it issue immediately. They're not quite touching, but I'm assume enough power probably causes a small arc (guessing).

After fixing this, I put them all in BTL mode. I had to take all speakers down 6.5dB though. Weird...

After stress testing it in BTL mode, it's working fine in my stress testing it while the fans are running it's working fine!

I'm about to pull those fans and will see if heat is an issue now.

 

[Verdinut]

You called it Gene! Can't believe this was my issue all along!

I've only got banana plugs with no visible whiskers, so I turned the volume up to 0dB, went to SPL test in the receiver to measure volumes, and it went into protection as soon as front height right started.

All 7 other height speakers worked.

When I went behind, I saw it issue immediately. They're not quite touching, but I'm assume enough power probably causes a small arc (guessing).

After fixing this, I put them all in BTL mode. I had to take all speakers down 6.5dB though. Weird...

After stress testing it in BTL mode, it's working fine in my stress testing it while the fans are running it's working fine!

I'm about to pull those fans and will see if heat is an issue now.

There can never be any output voltage from an amplifier high enough to cause some arcing.

 

[Sawtaytoes]

There can never be any output voltage from an amplifier high enough to cause some arcing.

I can't confirm or deny. It only shut off at higher volumes, and these connectors weren't touching.

Separating those fixed the issue, so whatever happened, that was the fix.

I really thought that silver colored metal wasn't conductive.

 

[PENG]

I can't confirm or deny. It only shut off at higher volumes, and these connectors weren't touching.

Separating those fixed the issue, so whatever happened, that was the fix.

I really thought that silver colored metal wasn't conductive.

That explained everything... At volume 20, even an AVR will not shut down on protection with those speakers!! You have way more than you need in terms of voltage and current without using BTL mode, so all is good.

 

[gene]

You called it Gene! Can't believe this was my issue all along!

I've only got banana plugs with no visible whiskers, so I turned the volume up to 0dB, went to SPL test in the receiver to measure volumes, and it went into protection as soon as front height right started.

All 7 other height speakers worked.

When I went behind, I saw it issue immediately. They're not quite touching, but I'm assume enough power probably causes a small arc (guessing).

After fixing this, I put them all in BTL mode. I had to take all speakers down 6.5dB though. Weird...

After stress testing it in BTL mode, it's working fine in my stress testing it while the fans are running it's working fine!

I'm about to pull those fans and will see if heat is an issue now.

Yes you were shorting half the signal most likely. Now that you're not, you got +6dB back.

 

[nl5882]

Just received my AV10 yesterday, my first processor. Now just hope it gets DLBC and ART!!!!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Just received my AV10 yesterday, my first processor. Now just hope it gets DLBC and ART!!!!

Congrats. Expensive and advanced for a “first” AVP.

You don’t mess around.

 

[PENG]

Just received my AV10 yesterday, my first processor. Now just hope it gets DLBC and ART!!!!

DLBC is good and matured, ART, not so sure but before jumping in I would wait and see more reviews, with measurements to show it's effectiveness especially if your surround/height speakers are not really full range.

Knowing Dirac, I think it will work, just not sure how much you will gain from DLBC, that is very good already.