MartinLogan 4th Gen Motion XT Series BIG Performance Enhancements!

[mtrot]

This was confusing upon first glance but the reasons will become clear in my interview with the ML Engineers. The towers have more ability but were deliberately padded down for more smoothness. Stay tuned...

Gene, perhaps another topic of discussion with the ML engineers would be the dispersion characteristics of the tweeter. I found this review of the Motion 60XTi of the previous series, in which the dispersion characteristics of the XT tweeter are described. From the review:

"Another advantage: the pattern of their sonic delivery is also more controlled than domes, which have a wide dispersion – almost hemispherical, indeed. Folded Motion tweeters disperse around 80° both vertically and horizontally, while the XT version reduces that to 30° vertical and 80° horizontally, much reducing bounces from ceiling and walls on the way to the listener, so aiding clarity."

MartinLogan Motion 60XTi review

Exceptionally well-designed tweeters make all the difference

www.whathifi.com

My question, or concern, when using them in an "all-around" system for both music and movies, is whether the limited dispersion of the tweeters would be an issue for people who don't sit around much in the "sweet spot", listening to music. I can see how this would be great for a two-channel aficionado, but could that be a negative for home theater? Or, would 30 degrees vertical and 80 degrees horizontal be plenty for home theater as well?

 

[shadyJ]

Gene, perhaps another topic of discussion with the ML engineers would be the dispersion characteristics of the tweeter. I found this review of the Motion 60XTi of the previous series, in which the dispersion characteristics of the XT tweeter are described. From the review:

"Another advantage: the pattern of their sonic delivery is also more controlled than domes, which have a wide dispersion – almost hemispherical, indeed. Folded Motion tweeters disperse around 80° both vertically and horizontally, while the XT version reduces that to 30° vertical and 80° horizontally, much reducing bounces from ceiling and walls on the way to the listener, so aiding clarity."

MartinLogan Motion 60XTi review

Exceptionally well-designed tweeters make all the difference

www.whathifi.com

My question, or concern, when using them in an "all-around" system for both music and movies, is whether the limited dispersion of the tweeters would be an issue for people who don't sit around much in the "sweet spot", listening to music. I can see how this would be great for a two-channel aficionado, but could that be a negative for home theater? Or, would 30 degrees vertical and 80 degrees horizontal be plenty for home theater as well?

30 vertical by 80 horizontal is plenty for home theater or any application really. I doubt that MartinLogan has achieved that claimed coverage with any precision, but we will see.

 

[mtrot]

30 vertical by 80 horizontal is plenty for home theater or any application really. I doubt that MartinLogan has achieved that claimed coverage with any precision, but we will see.

Nice to hear. That 30/80 claim was for their last Motion series. They now have incorporated some manner of wave guide, so, like you say, we will see.

It seems like I keep seeing some speakers praised for their wider dispersion, especially for home theater.

 

[Nondemo01]

Yes and off camera of course. LOL

Loved your preview and look forward to the review Gene! (Now that we know what off-camera wife guy thinks, what about SINAD guy or Crossover Guy? )

 

[magic44ken]

30 vertical by 80 horizontal is plenty for home theater or any application really. I doubt that MartinLogan has achieved that claimed coverage with any precision, but we will see.

I'm curious. What is the minimum dispersion requirement that can cover the whole sofa that have three seats? And what is the dispersion med in order to cover the sofa and one sofa with two seats on left or right side? Are there any calculator or visual picture how to calculate dispersion?

 

[ryanosaur]

I'm curious. What is the minimum dispersion requirement that can cover the whole sofa that have three seats? And what is the dispersion med in order to cover the sofa and one sofa with two seats on left or right side? Are there any calculator or visual picture how to calculate dispersion?

Geometry.
How far do you sit from the Speaker… how wide is the coverage L-R…
There are easy online calculators that will crunch numbers for you.


Unless you have a super wide sofa, or are sitting absurdly close you are most likely within +/- 30°.

 

[shadyJ]

I'm curious. What is the minimum dispersion requirement that can cover the whole sofa that have three seats? And what is the dispersion med in order to cover the sofa and one sofa with two seats on left or right side? Are there any calculator or visual picture how to calculate dispersion?

Just use an angle ruler or something like that at the point of the tweeter to see what seating area an angle encompasses. There are also apps that do this.

 

[xrqp]

How does ML get such high sensitivity ratings on their small models like the center speakers and surrounds? 92 to 93dB,

By not going into low frequency. e.g. roll off at 100 to 150 hz.

 

[magic44ken]

Geometry.
How far do you sit from the Speaker… how wide is the coverage L-R…
There are easy online calculators that will crunch numbers for you.

Unless you have a super wide sofa, or are sitting absurdly close you are most likely within +/- 30°.

This question is for my friend. He recently ask me about upgrading his speaker for a larger sweet spot that can cover the three seated sofa he have. The listening distance from the sofa to the speaker is 9 feet. The distance between the left and right speaker is about 6 feet apart.

Most of the online speaker caculator that I find is for speaker placement.

 

[magic44ken]

Just use an angle ruler or something like that at the point of the tweeter to see what seating area an angle encompasses. There are also apps that do this.

Do you have any app or online calculator that you can recommend? This is for a friend that recently ask me about speaker dispersion to cover this three seated sofa that is 9 feet from the speaker. The left and right speaker is 6 feet in between. I don't have much experience in this area.

 

[shadyJ]

Do you have any app or online calculator that you can recommend? This is for a friend that recently ask me about speaker dispersion to cover this three seated sofa that is 9 feet from the speaker. The left and right speaker is 6 feet in between. I don't have much experience in this area.

There are a lot of speaker angle apps, and here is one example. But you really shouldn't need an app for this. If you want to be precise, all you need is an angle ruler. Just aim the speaker at the primary listening position and make sure it has a wide enough dispersion to cover outer seating positions. This will vary from speaker to speaker, so you need loudspeaker measurements that show the speaker's dispersion coverage. We do this in our reviews at Audioholics, but there are other reviewers who show this as well. What speakers is your friend dealing with?

 

[gene]

 

[mtrot]

I found a set of the new F200 at a Best Buy store yesterday and was able to get a listen to them for 20 minutes. The sales guy played a couple of tracks and then he played a couple of my "go-to" tracks.

Unfortunately, the room is jam packed with other speakers and the F200's were perhaps a bit too close to each other. But I was still able to get a feel for the sound of the tweeters. I would agree with the reviews that they seem to be able to produce highly detailed highs, and without harshness. Cymbals seemed to have a bit more "airiness" to them than with my new Sonus Faber Lumina V.

Female vocals sounded nice, but just didn't seem as gorgeous as with my Sonus Faber Lumina V. There was decent impact from the woofers, but there seemed to be a bass null at the seating position. If I moved near the back of the room, there was much deeper bass.

I did get to play the first track of my favorite symphonic recording, Mahler's 5th symphony, at some pretty good volume. I will say, the huge crescendos early in the first movement were spine tingling! My goodness.

As to imaging and sound staging, that's where I'm not too sure about these speakers. I didn't get much of a sense of a sound stage or where the vocalist or instruments might be. Again, I would have the speakers farther apart before rendering any final opinion on that. The sales guy, who said he was more of a "KEF guy", also mentioned this and said he had been able to listen to them multiple times and that was also his observation.

But I do say they have promise and it would be nice to hear these, or the F100's, in my own room, which doesn't have 20 or so other speakers in it.

 

[xrqp]

Thanks for the info.
Since spacing them wider may be difficult, I wonder if toeing them inward a little would help. They are so big, maybe the listening position needs to be 8' or more away from the speakers.
The clearance from the front wall looks OK. Are the room acoustics decent (not too many strong reflections at the listening)?

When you went backwards in the room for more bass, were you within two feet of the rear wall? If yes, it may have been a bass peak (the opposite of a null).

 

[mtrot]

Thanks for the info.
Since spacing them wider may be difficult, I wonder if toeing them inward a little would help. They are so big, maybe the listening position needs to be 8' or more away from the speakers.
The clearance from the front wall looks OK. Are the room acoustics decent (not too many strong reflections at the listening)?

When you went backwards in the room for more bass, were you within two feet of the rear wall? If yes, it may have been a bass peak (the opposite of a null).

Yeah, it was close to the back wall where the bass had more extension. As to the room acoustics, I don't remember if, or how much, treatment was in there, but there were about 20 or more other speakers in there.

 

[Goliath]

Gene, if you reading this, will you be reviewing the XT B100 model at all? I ask because I'm looking to upgrade from my Paradigm Studio 20 v5 bookshelves and these speakers could be a great option.

 

[gene]

Gene, if you reading this, will you be reviewing the XT B100 model at all? I ask because I'm looking to upgrade from my Paradigm Studio 20 v5 bookshelves and these speakers could be a great option.

We requested them but review samples are challenging right now due to low supply and high demand.

 

[Hobbit]

A question I have is why don't we see much love for electrostatics?

I friend of mine used to have an Audiophile store here in town -one of the last of the ma and pops. He carried the ML's. I always loved the way they sounded. Same when I was on business trips and would stop in stores that carried Magnepans.

The ones I listened to were way out of my price range. However, ML and Maggy make some electrostatics that appear reasonably priced.

 

[everettT]

A question I have is why don't we see much love for electrostatics?

I friend of mine used to have an Audiophile store here in town -one of the last of the ma and pops. He carried the ML's. I always loved the way they sounded. Same when I was on business trips and would stop in stores that carried Magnepans.

The ones I listened to were way out of my price range. However, ML and Maggy make some electrostatics that appear reasonably priced.

Primary reasons: expensive for good panels, can't just be placed in any room (including WAF), and very narrow sweet spot. I've owned and enjoyed 2 pairs many years ago, but for HT, not really a first choice except with vocals.

 

[Laika2]

100 Towers arrived yesterday with the 100 center, out of roughly 25 towers I have had including higher priced Revels, Golden Ear Triton 1Rs and many others I have hit my endgame, normally takes a month of working with placement and readings to decide if I like them better than my previous speakers, plopped these down in the normal spots ran X32, did the usual 6db house curve and WOW, these immediately sounded better than anything I have ever owned. Can't wait to work with them for a month to really dial them in. I was done at 6PM last night and watched 4 movies I have seen many times just to hear the new magic, rare to stay up till 4AM but it was just WOW, I wonder how this movie or FLAC file will sound, repeat, so addictive I'm going cold turkey at 2 AM tonight to sleep. One day is a bit early to tell but I think I am done. Endgame for me. (Comming from Arendals which are damn fine speakers but these are next level.)