Sony 2023 ES Receiver lineup

[gene]

From Tony at Audioholics, "The big question is the new 360 Spatial room correction. Dirac has their spatial room correction solution, which abandons the old method of correcting one channel at a time, instead using every speaker in a system simultaneously to optimize the reproduction of each input channel. Trinnov recently released...".

I didn't realize that the Sony room correction may go beyond Dirac Live, Audyssey, etc.'s Room Correction and be closer to Dirac's new ART and Trinnov's equivalent. This would corroborate Andrew Robinson's glowing review without going into detail, other than it sounded better than systems he's used with traditional Dirac. Very interesting, I can't wait for the upcoming detailed review.

It seems everyone is jumping into spatial audio, including Sonos with their leaked new Era line. Too bad Sonos and Apple are not getting along and Apple Music won't work on Sonos Atmos, and Denon and Sonos are not getting along.

All I want is a room-corrected, multi-independent-sub-bass-corrected, spatially-audioated, 7.2.4 atmos system with a Samsung Frame art exhibit look, that I can pipe to (Airplay) or from (various TV content like concerts) so I can have an audio art room plus home playing in high-fidelity, loss-less, spatial audio. With the tech right there, why is this so hard? There is good reason people give up and stick with vinyl two speaker stereo and crappy portable bluetooth speakers.

I think Tony may have gotten a little carried away with assumptions on what Sony 360 can do verses Dirac ART. Matt Poes is testing this and will report back so stay tuned...

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I have discovered some cool features that make this a good option for a Sony ecosystem.

it has a dual center channel and center loft feature. I wasn’t sure how it worked. Turns out that you can either connect dual center channels (above and below the tv) or it can connect to your Sony tv. Since the higher end Sony tvs have actuators on the screen surface, it sends a filtered signal to the tv screen speakers to help give the perception of a more lifted image. Shane Lee tested it and found it gave the perception of the image coming from the screen. I have a Sony tv with such speakers too so I will try this out if possible.

Sony has a ton of marketing speak around this. It’s really hard to tell what is going on. I strongly suspect that the room correction is nothing special and won’t be all that effective. There past efforts used the same stereo mic and didn’t work very well. I suspect this is a continuation of the same approach. Since I have a Trinnov in my system and completed a calibration, I can measure my system as it is. Then add the Sony instead and recalibrate to compare.

as for other people’s positive reviews, who knows their motivations for why. I have no skin in this game. I am paid the same for good or bad review. I’ll bench test it and try it out. So far I am finding it to be a mixed bag. I don’t think build quality is the equal of Denon or Marantz.

 

[Eppie]

This one still confuses me. If I had to guess, it may have something to do with Native DSD but I'd just be guessing. Now, Sony has done this before concerning the now discontinued STR-DN1080. That receiver came out about five years ago and featured five HDMI input ports that supported 18Gbps and one port that was rate at 9Gbps. There was no 40Gbps HDMI 2.1 port available from anybody at the time. Now, Sony is offering four 40Gbps ports on their flagship models BUT now include not one, but TWO 9Gbps ports. They did not include two 24Gbps ports like some or even 18Gbps ports like some others still but decided to keep the 9Gbps port around and add another one to keep it company.

Now, if the BD/DVD and SACD/CD labeled ports do include some kind of Sony Secret Sound Sauce, then those using the new models will have to potentially make a hard choice. While the SACD/CD(#5) labeled HDMI port on the STR-DN1080 did support 18Gbps, the Sony Secret Sound Sauce SACD/CD(#6) HDMI port on the new models is a 9Gbps port. So, if somebody wants to enjoy 4K @120Hz or even just 4K 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 @60Hz video and savor the Sony Secret Sound Sauce at the same time, they have but a single HDMI port to use to do so by connecting to the BD/DVD(#3) HDMI port. The SACD/CD(#6) Sony Secret Sauce port on the new models is a 9Gbps port. So, a second device will benefit from supposedly enhanced audio while at the same time be crippled in the video department.

Sony STR-DN1080:
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SONY STR-AZ7000ES:
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I am also curious as to what difference in audio quality there would be on ports 3 and 6. I have 3 primary sources for content: cable box, NVidia Shield TV and Playstation for blue-rays. I want the best audio on all three components but have to sacrifice something for one? I can see that on the cheapest model where pennies matter but not on the top tier models.

 

[Trebdp83]

A single Center Speaker with a dialogue "Lift" feature can be found in one of the cheaper Yamaha receivers. I was surprised that it actually works and dialogue did seem to be raised up as if coming directly out of the middle of the screen when adjusted just so. Sony has some even more interesting options.

If you didn't like the idea of incorporating Auro-3D into your speaker configuration, you will love Sony's 360 Reality Audio setup. Ok, so I joked many posts ago in some another thread about Dolby adding bottom speakers in a future advancement on Dolby Atmos. Well, Sony beat them to it.

 

[Trebdp83]

Did you get the Hint by Sony in the pic? Stop stressing over sub placement. You can put it "wherever you want." It's been a long time since I've heard that one.

 

[Trebdp83]

Really, no reactions to Sony adding another level and dot to speaker configurations? Finally, folks with three center channel speakers collecting dust in a corner can put them to work.

 

[snakeeyes]

A single Center Speaker with a dialogue "Lift" feature can be found in one of the cheaper Yamaha receivers. I was surprised that it actually works and dialogue did seem to be raised up as if coming directly out of the middle of the screen when adjusted just so. Sony has some even more interesting options.

If you didn't like the idea of incorporating Auro-3D into your speaker configuration, you will love Sony's 360 Reality Audio setup. Ok, so I joked many posts ago in some another thread about Dolby adding bottom speakers in a future advancement on Dolby Atmos. Well, Sony beat them to it.
View attachment 60635
View attachment 60636

Center lift, “Dialog Lift” on Yamaha only works if your heights are not being used for Atmos or DTSX, at least on the Yamahas I have from 2016. You choose one of the DSP Movie modes. (This is on a 2060)

Maybe by introducing a top center speaker on Sony, that allows the heights to be dedicated to Atmos and the upper center does the lifting with the lower center.

 

[John22]

From what I am reading, I don't get the impression that the Sony 360 system does what Dirac does...

It appears that the Sony system does do speaker virtual repositioning - which is impressive - and until now that was a trinnov exclusive.

But there is no mention anywhere of impulse correction, or cooperative bass smoothing througout the listening area... things that both Trinnov and Dirac do.
And with Dirac ART - we have cooperative speaker use in combination with active reflection cancelling - another thing that the Sony system does not claim to do.

Right now we have differing spatial sound processing systems, that attempt to do different things in different ways - if your speakers and room are inherently imperfectly positioned, perhaps a system which virtually re-positions them to where they should be, will give better results than one that assume the speakers to be correctly placed, and then tries to adjust other parameters...

That would make the Sony system king of the multi-purpose living rooms...

But if your speakers are already well positioned, but you want to optimise the immersive effect by cancelling reflections - then Dirac ART (and perhaps the latest iteration of Trinnov) are going to be the best bet.

If you want to get even bass response throughout the room, it doesn't seem like the Sony system would be the best bet either.

A dedicated Home Theatre room, will probably be an environment where Trinnov will continue to rule - both due to price and capabilities...
A random living room, with lifestyle driven speaker layout, is likely to be Sony's domain.
A shared function living space, where the audio/video phile has had the ability to place the speakers either optimally or at some approximation of optimally, is likely to be Dirac's strong suit.

I don't think they set out to resolve the same problems!
Over the next decade, I expect that the features each have will converge, and they will become more similar, but right now, they have each focused on different aspects of performance, and will therefore best suit different environments.

Interesting. You're very correct about Sony's claims about their 360 Spatial Sound but it's really unclear what their new Cinema Calibration does and doesn't do relative to Dirac, Audyssey and Trinnov. There is clearly major mainstream player movement right now in "spatial" audio, with Apple promoting it in their Homepod, Sonos' upcoming Era announcements, and the continued growth of Atmos enabled soundbars and speakers. Maybe Sony is jumping on that marketing train. Only a small number of people know about Bass Optimization and less about Dirac ART.

Sony does claim their Digital Cinema Auto Calibration IX "precisely corrects the distance, angle, sound pressure, and frequency response of each speaker... to create the ideal sound field for any home theater setup." I wouldn't expect Sony to compete with Dirac ART (that was why that preview article was surprising), but maybe their combination of DCAC IX and 360 offers a step up from standard Dirac. Unless they have come up with a way to optimize bass with one channel, I doubt they're close to Dirac Bass Management or MiniDSP MSO, but then Dirac Bass Management is only available on Arcam. Even if the Denon and Marantz chassis seem perfect for it this Spring, it somehow seems unlikely given the NADs all have independent sub-outs and they don't have Bass Management. Tuning the bass with Audyssey and the rest with Dirac seems cumbersome and less than ideal.

At the end of the day, I just need a 5.2.4 or 7.2.4 receiver and speaker installation that can do multi-room with TV or Airplay as source. I'd like it to be as spatially and bassially correct as possible. I have the benefit of an ideal room, specifically for symmetrical 2-sub front corner placement, so... I'm holding out for Matt's review of the Sony, because that could put me in a good-sounding, relatively bug-free, 7.2.4 receiver for $2100 (that I can still run SVS sub DSP or MSO w/ a MiniDSP). If DCAC IX and 360 are really just the same old not-as-good-as-Dirac room correction, then I'll just get a Pioneer LX305 5.2.4 with standard Dirac on the "cheap," and wait a few years to change out to a consumer-grade receiver with Dirac BM + ART.

Lastly, if I'm wrong about any of the above, I'd really like to know. It's really confusing to me exactly where standard Dirac and Dirac Bass Management lines overlap, and how one would ideally set up a Denon with Dirac + Audyssey for Bass Management without actually having Dirac Bass Management. Also unclear is if Denon Heos can play from Zone 2, because I don't want to integrate Denon with Sonos, two companies with a history of lawsuits. It seems nearly inexcusable for Sony to have just one bass channel in 2023, unless their engineers somehow don't see a need for it with DCAC IX/360. Maybe they're being bold like Apple, who doesn't have a line-in to their speaker. It certainly seems like the biggest miss, aside from all the HDMI stuff above.

 

[VonMagnum]

It's disappointing to have to go elsewhere to find out such basic information as whether these models even support Auro-3D or even Atmos or DTS:X for that matter as none are mentioned in the article at all.

How many channels do the other models not discussed support? 11.x is so 2014! Denon is up to 9.4.6 now and others are following. D&M also support Sony Surround 360 on their new models along with the choice of Audyssey (with up to 4 subs default) or DIRAC for an extra software license purchase. What's better about these Sony models that bests the new Denon and Marantz models? The $900 price? I paid $1100 in 2017 for a Marantz labeled 11.2 receiver brand new so that doesn't impress me either.

As for HDMI, I'm sure it's a chipset limitation. 4 inputs with 2.1 is better than previous models with only 1 input supporting it. How many game consoles are people planning to connect? Nothing else supports 2.1 specs at the moment.

(BTW: My account still acting slow/weird years later here; it'd be nice if someone could reset or wipe my account so I can use this site normally. I've only requested it a half dozen times)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

A long, long time ago when I used to go to movie theaters, I mean way long before ATMOS came out, I would seek out theaters with the SDDS (Sony Dynamic Digital Sound).

I was disappointed because Sony never implemented SDDS in their own AVRs.

I think SDDS would have distinguished Sony from the other AVR - not that SDDS is better than Dolby or DTS. But their AVR would be the only game in town to have SDDS.

 

[ban25]

Lastly, if I'm wrong about any of the above, I'd really like to know. It's really confusing to me exactly where standard Dirac and Dirac Bass Management lines overlap, and how one would ideally set up a Denon with Dirac + Audyssey for Bass Management without actually having Dirac Bass Management. Also unclear is if Denon Heos can play from Zone 2, because I don't want to integrate Denon with Sonos, two companies with a history of lawsuits. It seems nearly inexcusable for Sony to have just one bass channel in 2023, unless their engineers somehow don't see a need for it with DCAC IX/360. Maybe they're being bold like Apple, who doesn't have a line-in to their speaker. It certainly seems like the biggest miss, aside from all the HDMI stuff above.

DLBC has been announced as a 2024 upgrade for the current lineup of D+M AVRs, including the Denon X3800H/X4800H, Cinema 50, 40, AV10 and A1H. Furthermore, DLBC is available as an upgrade to the newly announced Integra DRX 8.4 (https://www.dirac.com/online-store/integra-drx-8-4/) and presumably will come to Pioneer and Onkyo variants later this year.

 

[Trebdp83]

The HDMI limitations on these models is not just about game consoles. Any device needing HDMI 2.0 18Gbps capabilities will be out of luck if connected to HDMI ports #5 and #6. . So, connect a PC, PS5, XBOX Series X/S and an Oppo UDP-205 to the first four inputs and you are left with two 9Gbps ports that only support 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 bit. So, any new streaming device connected to these ports will NOT support anything over 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 bit.

Anyone connecting a streaming device to these ports will have output limitations. These limitations will potentially be made worse by services that do not support Atmos if HDR is not also in use. If the device cannot output HDR because the service does not support 24Hz output, then it will try to output 4K @60Hz 4:2:2 8 bit or 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 10 bit.Neither are supported and different devices will do different things to try and fit the signal into the pipe. PCs outputting RGB 4:4:4 @60Hz 8 bit will drop to 1080p @60Hz or drop to 4K @30Hz. Different streaming devices will do different things to output a signal given the limitation.

Those with a Denon X4700H or an Onkyo TX-RZ50 can see what this limitation means for their devices by connecting each of their devices to the HDMI ports on the FRONT of the those receivers. The Denon X4700H and Onkyo TX-RZ50 FRONT ports have the same limitations as the #5 and #6 ports on the BACK of the new Sony models.

 

[VonMagnum]

The HDMI limitations on these models is not just about game consoles. Any device needing HDMI 2.0 18Gbps capabilities will be out of luck if connected to HDMI ports #5 and #6. . So, connect a PC, PS5, XBOX Series X/S and an Oppo UDP-205 to the first four inputs and you are left with two 9Gbps ports that only support 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 bit. So, any new streaming device connected to these ports will NOT support anything over 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 8 bit.

Anyone connecting a streaming device to these ports will have output limitations. These limitations will potentially be made worse by services that do not support Atmos if HDR is not also in use. If the device cannot output HDR because the service does not support 24Hz output, then it will try to output 4K @60Hz 4:2:2 8 bit or 4K @60Hz 4:2:0 10 bit.Neither are supported and different devices will do different things to try and fit the signal into the pipe. PCs outputting RGB 4:4:4 @60Hz 8 bit will drop to 1080p @60Hz or drop to 4K @30Hz. Different streaming devices will do different things to output a signal given the limitation.

Those with a Denon X4700H or an Onkyo TX-RZ50 can see what this limitation means for their devices by connecting each of their devices to the HDMI ports on the FRONT of the those receivers. The Denon X4700H and Onkyo TX-RZ50 FRONT ports have the same limitations as the #5 and #6 ports on the BACK of the new Sony models.

No one needs more than 4 HDMI 2.1 devices. OPPO doesn't even sell disc players anymore and any person with any size collection of blu-rays would be using dumped discs with a player like Zidoo or a Shield with KODI anyway. None of these devices need >60Hz 4K playback anyway as there is no source material that uses >60fps with the sole possible exception of homemade video. It's non-existent outside home movies and video games.

So you'd still have one 2.1 port left in your example (hook your Oppo to the 2.0 port. It has no need for 2.1). I don't need or want two game consoles. One is sufficient. I don't need a PC connected either. A Shield and/or Zidoo is sufficient. Why would I need both? More gaming? I PC game in my den. I'd have 3 ports available. Most people would. If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it, but 4 ports is enough for 99.9% of the population. Sony has issues, but this isn't one of them.

You've said your bit already. There's no need to keep repeating yourself. Few agree and rightly so as 2.1 has no real uses whatsoever outside gaming at the moment as I originally said. Two game consoles and a PC/local playback box still leave one port free.

What "new" boxes are going to need 2.1 in the next 5 years? 8K movies? Without the waste of time Oppo that isn't made anymore (no movies that would play on it support >60fps or 8k anyway), you still have a port free. There's also the option of a direct connect to your video source with eARC playback of sound to the receiver, potentially adding 4+ more video ports that will work.

 

[Trebdp83]

You are not understanding that the #5 and #6 HDMI ports do not support 18Gbps which is very necessary for many reasons concerning new devices. It doesn't help that HDMI 2.0 has effectively been folded into HDMI 2.1 and manufacturers aren't saying anymore than they need to do so. 4K Enhanced(18Gbps) is necessary to avoid any SDR conversion, color subsampling and color bit drops that occur going through a 4K Standard(9 Gbps) port. You also don't understand that some streamers will NOT play 4K HDR @24Hz using certain services even if they have "Match Frame Rate" turned on as every service decides how their service will be supported from one device to another. So, a streamer will have to adjust output to accommodate the 60Hz only presentation of a given service's content . The Apple TV 4K doesn't support 24Hz playback without HDR in some apps and if there is an SDR conversion to fit within the bandwidth of a 4K Standard port the video will playback in 4K SDR @60Hz 4:2:0 8 bit. Many people watch 24fps content that is being output at 60Hz without even knowing it. Many don't have TVs that support eARC and will give up audio performance to deal with the limited video performance of the Sony ports if the other four are taken and they need to connect to the TV.

Ok, so forget Oppo. Say you only have Sony devices. You have a Sony A90J TV, PS5 and Sony UBP-X800 or X800M2 and use the TV's apps to stream from services. You want the Sony Secret Sound Sauce from HDMI ports #3 and #6 on your new STR-AZ7000ES for both devices. You will be forced to connect the PS5 to the #3 port to get 4K @120Hz. You will then connect the X800/X800M2 to the #6 port. It is a 4K Standard(9 Gbps) port. 4K HDR10 discs output at 24Hz and the Sony machines will output that video in 4K HDR10 @24Hz 4:4:4 12 bit automatically when connected to 4K Enhanced(18Gbps) ports set to 4K Enhanced Mode. But, when connected to a 4K Standard port, will have to do some color subsampling and bit drops to 4K HDR10 4:2:2 8 bit even with 24Hz output. There is a reason Dolby Vision discs have RGB 8 bit 4:4:4 @24Hz signals. Those are some ridiculous limitations and work arounds concerning very expensive Sony gear to sample Sony Secret Sound Sauce.

If there are any still confused by the issue, just know that a 4K HDMI 2.0 port may be a limited 4K Standard(9 Gbps) port or a 4K Enhanced(18 Gbps) port. You need 18Gbps to avoid issues with HDMI 2.0 devices that support 18 Gbps Sony should have labeled those two ports "4K Standard", not just "4K". If you are still rocking a 1080p setup including an Oppo BDP-93, a "fat" PS3 1st Gen and Pioneer Kuro plasma TV and just want a 5.1.5.3 Sony 360 Reality Audio speaker configuration, well, the Sony STR-AZ7000ES is the receiver for you and you should have no issues.

P.S. There are two 4K disc movies presented in 60fps but they aren't very good.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

No one needs more than 4 HDMI 2.1 devices. OPPO doesn't even sell disc players anymore and any person with any size collection of blu-rays would be using dumped discs with a player like Zidoo or a Shield with KODI anyway. None of these devices need >60Hz 4K playback anyway as there is no source material that uses >60fps with the sole possible exception of homemade video. It's non-existent outside home movies and video games.

So you'd still have one 2.1 port left in your example (hook your Oppo to the 2.0 port. It has no need for 2.1). I don't need or want two game consoles. One is sufficient. I don't need a PC connected either. A Shield and/or Zidoo is sufficient. Why would I need both? More gaming? I PC game in my den. I'd have 3 ports available. Most people would. If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it, but 4 ports is enough for 99.9% of the population. Sony has issues, but this isn't one of them.

You've said your bit already. There's no need to keep repeating yourself. Few agree and rightly so as 2.1 has no real uses whatsoever outside gaming at the moment as I originally said. Two game consoles and a PC/local playback box still leave one port free.

What "new" boxes are going to need 2.1 in the next 5 years? 8K movies? Without the waste of time Oppo that isn't made anymore (no movies that would play on it support >60fps or 8k anyway), you still have a port free. There's also the option of a direct connect to your video source with eARC playback of sound to the receiver, potentially adding 4+ more video ports that will work.

Thanks for telling us what everyone needs. Too bad your account is still slow. Not…

 

[John22]

I had a long conversation yesterday with ChatGPT about much of the above and how I might interconnect everything, an I've come to some further understanding, but no full conclusions yet. The Sony ES 7000 and 3000 are now available to order on sony.com, so I'm really looking forward to Matt's review. As mentioned above, I'm planning a 7.2.4 system in an ideal room that's adjacent to another room and deck that I'd like connected audio in as well with Homepods, Denons, or Sonos. Here are some things I learned

- It turns out I can play Atmos to a receiver and the Homepods simultaneously from an Apple TV 4K (for live concerts). Although it's still unclear if I can have a source as X-Box, it's not a large use case to play video game sound to the adjacent room. So Homepods are in the running for the adjacent room.
- In order to run my Samsung Frame TV in Art Mode while listening to music from the Apple TV to Atmos, the best solution I've come up with is to run a 10-inch monitor to a side table from Zone B video out for just the Apple TV UI, and put the Samsung Frame TV in Art Mode. This will be nice to have a small screen just for music UI and another huge one for art.
- The rest of what I learned has to do with spatial audio and the various streaming services available... and I'm just more confused.

Obviously, if I go with Apple Homepods, I'll subscribe to Apple Music for Lossless and Apple's Spatial Audio, which will work on both the Sony ES Atmos and the Homepods in the adjacent room. However, should I expect that a 2023 Sony ES Receiver with "360 Spatial Audio" is better suited to play Sony's "360 Reality Audio" formatted music, compared to Apple Music's Atmos? Probably yes, but this is an important question if you're reading, Matt. If a brand new Sony receiver does play Sony formatted content better, then I should subscribe to Tidal HiFi Plus with Sony Reality Audio, and then of course ditch the Homepods for Sonos, which works with Tidal and presumably will even have spatial audio and maybe room correction in their upcoming Era line. So, here's what I'm assuming so far:

- Sony ES 5000 + Sonos Port ($400) + 2 Sonos Era Speakers (~$500-600) = 11- channels out of the box and subscription to Tidal for Sony Reality Audio. DCAC IX plus 360 is promising vs. Dirac standard, but that's unclear. Bass Optimization will have to be done with SVS DSPs and REW. Sonos have portable options which are ideal for deck and even camping. Spendy but good.
- Denon/Marantz = Will likely start with 5.2.4, then add an amp and 2 more speakers later. Dirac Live available, but Bass Management coming way later. Independent sub-outs. Denon Heos makes sense obviously although Homepods could work. Denon's are nice but not portable, and no mention of spatial audio. Homepods atleast have in-room correction built in, and probably better if I go with Apple Music. Denon/Marantz do support Sony Reality Audio.
- Pioneer = 305 and 505 are on sale now, have standard Dirac, and seem to work with either Sonos of Homepods just fine.

See the plans below if you're interested.

 

[-Jim-]

IMHO the Surround Speakers are positioned incorrectly. But have fun with it.

 

[WalterDS]

I have a question about these receivers: does anyone know if they use Class D or Class A/B amplification? I am looking, increasingly desperately, for a Class D AVR that is actually available (unlike those Pioneer/Onkyo machines) ...

 

[John22]

IMHO the Surround Speakers are positioned incorrectly. But have fun with it.

The side surrounds are to Dolby spec, but the rears are slightly off, yes, due to the door and piano. If I really must for a movie, I can move them slightly, but I imagine with correction, especially Sony’s, it will be fine. The vast majority of rooms have far worse limitations and do fine. It’s more of an art/music/living room rather than a dedicated HT.

 

[ban25]

I have a question about these receivers: does anyone know if they use Class D or Class A/B amplification? I am looking, increasingly desperately, for a Class D AVR that is actually available (unlike those Pioneer/Onkyo machines) ...

AB

For Class D, your best bet is to go for a Pre-Pro (or AVR with pre-outs) and add separate Class D amplification. Off the top of my head, the NAD T778 should be Class D, though it only has HDMI 2.0.