economics etc.

[Dude#1279435]

highfigh said-

The rise in tuition AND the way college was sold as the thing for ALL students to do is criminal. I think many of the colleges and unis should refund the tuition, not the lenders via government.

Private colleges are incredibly expensive, far more than state schools, but we also need to look at how the school funding was slashed by the Federal government, too. That was one of the worst things they have done.

I paid more/quarter in 1975-'79 (full year was three quarters, with Summer being optional) than the local WI university charged/year and now, it's $14,428 for 12-19 credits, and $753 for each additional credit hour. The do have many financial aid programs and scholarships, though- their site shows that reduces the cost by over 40% but they offer ZERO curriculum for students who want to study something that has no possibility of a job or a future.

Boy that's a good research project. Why do "private" unis cost more than "public"? Better teachers? Just seems to me if the market is doing its thing it would be lower.

Ideally there would be no federal aid for school. 4.0's would get their free ride from private donation. (Athletes too since what the people seek -- sports -- is what they get.) This is a fairy tale though.

I don't think students should be reimbursed. It's a business, and if students and parents don't research what they're getting themselves into than that's their own problem. If they want to pay a ton for the college experience than that's their deal.

I like what one of the local unis is doing. They have no extra curricular activities, and at the time it cost about $7-10K per year.

Edit: I take that back. A free ride for athletes was pretty stupid. SMH. If they have the GPA than that's different.

 

[Dude#1279435]

https://cetweb.edu/trade-school-vs-college-what-finance-experts-have-to-say/#:~:text=The%20difference%20in%20debt%20between,bachelor's%20degree%2C%20including%20tuition%20fees

.
The difference in debt between students who attended college or trade school is astonishing. Regardless of the field of study, the average cost of obtaining a degree from a trade school is $33,000 in contrast with an average of $132,000 for a bachelor's degree, including tuition fees.

Also.....

Another frequent reason to choose college over trade school is income expectation. There is no question about it; a bachelor’s degree accounts for 16,900 USD in additional income per year according to the National Center For Educational Statistics.

However, because of the amount of debt that students incur after finishing a college degree, more and more people are finding trade school to be a more convenient path. Trade school graduates have an entry-level average yearly salary of over 35,000 USD depending on the program.

When we add this to the fact that soon there will be a shortage of skilled laborers, people are finding the idea of attending trade school more appealing as it presents a positive picture in terms of job security.

 

[Dude#1279435]

I did a quick search locally. The U for residents costs roughly $22K. Non-residents good grief $49K per year. The private school I once lived by is $62K tuition alone. Add room & board and it's $76K per year.

 

[highfigh]

highfigh said-

The rise in tuition AND the way college was sold as the thing for ALL students to do is criminal. I think many of the colleges and unis should refund the tuition, not the lenders via government.

Private colleges are incredibly expensive, far more than state schools, but we also need to look at how the school funding was slashed by the Federal government, too. That was one of the worst things they have done.

I paid more/quarter in 1975-'79 (full year was three quarters, with Summer being optional) than the local WI university charged/year and now, it's $14,428 for 12-19 credits, and $753 for each additional credit hour. The do have many financial aid programs and scholarships, though- their site shows that reduces the cost by over 40% but they offer ZERO curriculum for students who want to study something that has no possibility of a job or a future.

Boy that's a good research project. Why do "private" unis cost more than "public"? Better teachers? Just seems to me if the market is doing its thing it would be lower.

Ideally there would be no federal aid for school. 4.0's would get their free ride from private donation. (Athletes too since what the people seek -- sports -- is what they get.) This is a fairy tale though.

I don't think students should be reimbursed. It's a business, and if students and parents don't research what they're getting themselves into than that's their own problem. If they want to pay a ton for the college experience than that's their deal.

I like what one of the local unis is doing. They have no extra curricular activities, and at the time it cost about $7-10K per year.

Edit: I take that back. A free ride for athletes was pretty stupid. SMH. If they have the GPA than that's different.

Private schools don't get the same funding, AFAIK.

So, you don't see Federal aid as something that provides opportunity for students that can't afford tuition? Got it.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Private schools don't get the same funding, AFAIK.

So, you don't see Federal aid as something that provides opportunity for students that can't afford tuition? Got it.

"Private" aid, but it might be a pipe dream.

 

[highfigh]

"Private" aid, but it might be a pipe dream.

Who, in your opinion, should be in charge of education in this country? How could private funding possibly provide enough money for all of the colleges & universities?

 

[Dude#1279435]

Who, in your opinion, should be in charge of education in this country? How could private funding possibly provide enough money for all of the colleges & universities?

Gov't is probably the only way via taxes etc.

 

[highfigh]

Gov't is probably the only way via taxes etc.

Right, but if they were required to use the revenue WISELY and if they would stop pissing it away on frivolous programs, balance the budget and be what they really need to be (not a nanny, not a ham-fisted ogre), it might not be a problem but Congress is totally disfunctional.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Is it me, or is this screwed up?

How Did the U.S. National Debt Get So Big?

The U.S. national debt is over $31 trillion, the largest it's ever been. Learn how the national debt grew to that level and what it means for U.S. economic growth.

www.thebalance.com

Every president borrows from the Social Security Trust Fund. Over the years, the Fund has taken in more revenue than it needed through payroll taxes leveraged on the baby boomer generation.

Ideally, this money should have been invested to be available when members of that generation retire. Instead, the Fund was "loaned" to the government to finance increased spending. This interest-free loan helps keep Treasury bond interest rates low, allowing more debt financing. But, it must be repaid by increased taxes as more individuals retire.

 

[SithZedi]

Gov't is probably the only way via taxes etc.

This is a huge issue with respect to the future of the country as well as getting back to giving the poor and lower classes a road map out of their status. That's one of the main traditional reasons immigrants came to the US. You could be show up in the US penniless and if you made the right choices, with some luck thrown in, you or at least the next generation could be the upper middle class. That doesn't happen often in other countries.

The first step would be to push education back to the states and get the feds out of it. Next reform the teachers unions who obviously favor teachers over students. One of JFK's biggest mistakes was to allow municipal unions to be formed. Introduce competition ie. charter schools or something similar to allow for choice and break the current "monopoly". Public education in the US is the closest thing we have to Socialism running in this country.

The product being produced by the current system is aptly captured by Sowell:

“A recently reprinted memoir by Frederick Douglass has footnotes explaining what words like ‘arraigned,’ ‘curried’ and ‘exculpate’ meant, and explaining who Job was. In other words, this man who was born a slave and never went to school educated himself to the point where his words now have to be explained to today’s expensively under-educated generation.”

 

[highfigh]

Is it me, or is this screwed up?

How Did the U.S. National Debt Get So Big?

The U.S. national debt is over $31 trillion, the largest it's ever been. Learn how the national debt grew to that level and what it means for U.S. economic growth.

www.thebalance.com

Every president borrows from the Social Security Trust Fund. Over the years, the Fund has taken in more revenue than it needed through payroll taxes leveraged on the baby boomer generation.

Ideally, this money should have been invested to be available when members of that generation retire. Instead, the Fund was "loaned" to the government to finance increased spending. This interest-free loan helps keep Treasury bond interest rates low, allowing more debt financing. But, it must be repaid by increased taxes as more individuals retire.

The loans to the Federal gov't are through bonds, AFAIK, but the interest isn't very high. The trust loses members who don't receive benefits for a long time after/if they retire, which partially balances the ones who receive more than their expected share.

This, of course, is all done by people who won't receive SS benefits, don't pay more than the max which is a pittance compared to their income and they'll never feel any pain if the trust becomes insolvent. Well, unless the people who will be screwed out of their benefits go after them.

 

[Dude#1279435]

The loans to the Federal gov't are through bonds, AFAIK, but the interest isn't very high. The trust loses members who don't receive benefits for a long time after/if they retire, which partially balances the ones who receive more than their expected share.

This, of course, is all done by people who won't receive SS benefits, don't pay more than the max which is a pittance compared to their income and they'll never feel any pain if the trust becomes insolvent. Well, unless the people who will be screwed out of their benefits go after them.

Sounds like ping pong economics to me (ie a scam).

 

[jinjuku]

I'm not a college graduate, only taken courses where something interested me.

For the $800 that some classes were going to cost me I did a tech certificate and in under 1/2 year was making what someone with a B.A. would typically make.

My nephew just completed 6 months of electrician school and his older sister 4 years for a BA in music. He's already got a job in his chosen field and makes 20% more than she does. And his 6 months was free.

 

[SithZedi]

I remember some of my classmates in high school who were were not cut out for school just dropped out of high school at 16 and either apprenticed in a trade or something similar and could do well. I call some of those guys now and they charge 150 to 200 just to show up. If there is a problem, you're close to shelling out four figures and they sometimes ask for cash so there's that.

Most of them drive better car than I do. Hat's off to them.

 

[cpp]

Is it me, or is this screwed up?

How Did the U.S. National Debt Get So Big?

The U.S. national debt is over $31 trillion, the largest it's ever been. Learn how the national debt grew to that level and what it means for U.S. economic growth.

www.thebalance.com

Every president borrows from the Social Security Trust Fund. Over the years, the Fund has taken in more revenue than it needed through payroll taxes leveraged on the baby boomer generation.

Ideally, this money should have been invested to be available when members of that generation retire. Instead, the Fund was "loaned" to the government to finance increased spending. This interest-free loan helps keep Treasury bond interest rates low, allowing more debt financing. But, it must be repaid by increased taxes as more individuals retire.

If the F$%$%# Govt had their way they would screw OVER all the people over the age of 65 that contributed to their soc sec all their lives. Not to mention the young folks today doing he same thing. Congress is the Scrooge of GOVT and I take it they feel "
If they would rather die they had better do it and decrease the surplus population”

 

[highfigh]

And how can private universities be cheaper given that they don't get government aid, it's a strange concept. At this point, I understand why the education system itself is outdated in areas that are fast-growing like IT and there is no way to always be at the top of the market. And the diploma itself is not particularly important there. But in other industries like medicine, economics, and so on, there is still no other choice but to go to a good university.

Some schools do a great job of fundraising, others just ask for money from the government. I went to MSOE, a private school- when I started, the school president was about 75, the son of the founder and was born in 1900. The bookstore was pathetic, the library was on the first floor of an old church, they had two dorms which were built using money from two alumni, the school rented time on a Sperry-Univac computer located at Globe Union, which became the corporate headquarters for Johnson Controls and there were no PCs or Apple computers because this was 1975. FF a few years- new school president, MAJOR fundraising campaigns and great results. Endowments from members of the board of regents and alumni, from corporate friends, gifts of perpetual patent rights from corporations like Proctor & Gamble, one person fired up $3.5 million for a new library, someone else bought ~$1.5 million worth of PCs around 1983 and as more graduates did extremely well, the money flowed in. There are zero "I want to be a Unicorn" courses or degrees, just practical, useful ones. There are no wafflers- this place is too expensive to do that, but they have always had scholarship money and financial aid. It's a hard school- when I started, we were told during the initiation session that 25% of each incoming class would drop out during the first year and 25% would drop out during each of the next two years. The rest would graduate and even if they didn't go into that field, they wouldn't have a hard time getting a job.

College isn't for everyone- parents need to get to know their kids and guide them much better. High schools often need better councilors- mine was absolutely useless and this sentiment is mirrored by many of my friends from HS. They need to send more kids to Junior College, as they did in the past and they also need to use aptitude tests- the kids who just don't know what they want to be and do need this.

 

[highfigh]

If the F$%$%# Govt had their way they would screw OVER all the people over the age of 65 that contributed to their soc sec all their lives. Not to mention the young folks today doing he same thing. Congress is the Scrooge of GOVT and I take it they feel "
If they would rather die they had better do it and decrease the surplus population”

They can find money for every pet project, but not for people who need it. I have a huge problem with the cost for Presidential elections but even that's a drop in the bucket compared with government waste projects.

 

[Trell]

If the F$%$%# Govt had their way they would screw OVER all the people over the age of 65 that contributed to their soc sec all their lives. Not to mention the young folks today doing he same thing. Congress is the Scrooge of GOVT and I take it they feel "
If they would rather die they had better do it and decrease the surplus population”

Slashing SS and Medicare is what the Republicans want to do.

 

[cpp]

Slashing SS and Medicare is what the Republicans want to do.

Yep Ricky Scott for one.

 

[highfigh]

Yep Ricky Scott for one.

As much as Biden says he wants to keep it, he was completely against ALL 'entitlements' in the past- plenty of videos show him saying he wants them gone, including for the military. Anyone who wants to end these can KMA. If they can send people to their deaths and dismemberment, they can pay for the aftermath.