Time to Build a New Box...

[-Jim-]

Hi Gang,

My main PC has started to reboot itself at random, but it seems to do it with more frequency as time goes by. It's an ancient build, but still suited my needs => Mostly for Tunes, Web Surfing, email, etc. I have very low horsepower requirements for computers these days. I built it to do some Video Editing and Blu-ray burning, but I'm doing little of that these days.

I do have a MSI Laptop that I cobbled together a couple of years ago from 2 identical units that were given to me by a buddy whose kids (ab)used them at university, and were done with them. I upgraded the RAM and went to an SSD, bought a new Power Supply as one was defective and they lost the other one, swapped keyboards, etc., etc. So I'll still be able to read your post here when I do the rebuild.

I also have an Intel NUC (Intel BOXNUC7PJYH1 NUC Mini Desktop PC - Intel Pentium Silver J5005 Quad-Core 1.5GHz) that I bought on a whim for a song late last June, just so I could start to play around with Windows 11. I got it up and running after the summer. I've got it plugged into a 55 inch Samsung LED TV and use a Bluetooth Keyboard and Mouse. It's a fun little box, and I'm impressed with it.

I'm trying to stay reasonable for this build and go with a 12th generation Intel CPU, and Z690 motherboard. (I'm an Intel fan so no AMD for me on this box.) I think for my needs now, and into the future, that generation should be fine, and maybe my Misses will understand I'm not building a Cadillac this time. Even though it won't be cheap!

I'll probably just rebuild into the same case, and reuse the optical drives. But a new motherboard, CPU, Ram, and PSU are going to be purchased. I have a new EVGA 240 mm Closed Loop CPU Cooler still sealed in a box that was a warranty replacement from a smaller 120 mm unit that failed in a Gamer Box I built for one of my sons. I will scrap the watercooler in my Rig as it's done it's job very well all these years. (I originally went in that direction when I wanted to try overclocking, and I was very pleased with the results. I pulled back to stock values as I wanted the computer to last a long time => which it did).

So I'll go looking for a deal and hope to gain the all important WAF before putting the credit card down. Wish me Luck

 

[Trell]

From your usage you could go with a passively cooled setup with the advantage that there will be no noise fan and the case can be fairly small (and discrete). Quite possibly such a setup will not be that cheap, but silence is golden.

I've three PC setups at home that are 10 years old where two of them are passively cooled and one (mine, of course) has fans but is quiet in normal usage.

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the post @Trell but according to the EVGA Specs:

• Pump Noise Level: 20dB(A) (MAX)
• FAN Noise Level: 16.0 dB(A) (MIN) – 39.9 dB(A) (MAX)

Ambient Room Noise Levels, not to mention Video Card or Case Fans will probably be far more than that. Besides, I'm doing this on a Budget (sort of) and I already have a cooler in hand at zero additional cost.

 

[Trell]

There are still updates for Windows 10 until October 2025 so still some time to think about to reassemble a new PC. What I've updated my PC over the years is more RAM, bigger SSDs and GPU as well more quiet fans from Noctua (just because I could).

 

[Cos]

As someone who recently built an Overkill system, happy to share my feedback and experience. You are in luck, now is one of the best time to build a PC. Intel/AMD are both struggling right now. That means they are droping prices on their CPUs. The same can be said from a lot of motherboard manufacturers

The power draws of the 12900k is a bit high, the 13900k is huge, and I would suggest a liquid cooler, but if you go with the I7s or I5 versions, you should be fine with a Noctua suggest above. It also depends on how cramped your case is and airflow.

If you are not going to game or overclock, then the Z series motherboards might not be the best choice, unless you want to overpay for features you won't use.

Pick parts. Build your PC. Compare and share. - PCPartPicker

• This site is a great resource as you price out those items you are looking for as it compares a vast number of CPU / PC parts from various resellers. This will give you a good starting point to help set your budget and where to buy

Micro Center - Computers and Electronic Device Retailer

• Quite honestly the best place to buy your CPU/MoBo combo. If you have one near you, I would go there in a heartbeat. I have probably built over 10 PCs for myself and friends using this location. They give discounts if you buy mobo/cpu together.
• They price match major competitors, have a huge selection of parts. On my recent build I had them price match memory, cpu cooler, cpu case fans. All I did is bring in the print outs from competitors (Major ones) and they matched everything.
• Very good return policy, Mobos and CPUS have shorter returns.

Not sure what GPU you are going to use. It looks like you don't hardcore game, so you can disregard my comments below.

If you are thinking up upgrading to a high end GPU in the future, I would look at a PS with an ATX 3.0 Connector just to cover your bases if you go with Nvidia. As they start to draw more and more power for GPUS, it is probably a safe bet. If you are going to go with a Top Tier 4090, you would want at least 1200w PS IMHO.

If you are not worried about GPUs, then you can definitely go lower wattage and ATX 3.0 is not a concern. I would suggest a GOLD or Platinum PS if not cost prohibitive. I would not use BRONZE rated PSU.

Have Fun

 

[-Jim-]

Thanks for the suggestions Gents.

In my mind I was always headed down the Noctua Cooler road when I was conceptualizing a new Box; until EVGA sent a new 240 mm Closed Loop CPU Cooler as a warranty replacement for a smaller 120 mm unit that failed in a Gamer Box I'd built for one of my sons. He couldn't wait for the RMA process so I subbed an Artic Black unit when my local Canada Computers shop didn't have the right Noctua on the shelf. (I cut them some slack as it was July 2021 and in the middle of Covid and major supply issues.) He Games daily after work, and it's his primary source of entertainment. Waiting for parts was definitely not on his radar. The Artic Black was only to be a temporary fix but we've been monitoring it and it's worked flawlessly. So I'll still with the EVGA Cooler for the initial build even though I'm not planning to overclock.

The Bitfienix Ghost Case I'm rebuilding into is spacious, and quiet, but when I mentioned that I was going to re-use it to my wife she quipped: You'll probably find a reason to get a new one. Sometimes I feel like she's just testing me...

I typically like to use a local supplier like Canada Computers (10 minutes away), or Memory Express (who's 45 minutes away), rather than a Web store but for the last Gamer Box I did use Newegg for the NVMe drive & Ebay of all places for the CPU. If something is (very unusual) dead at installation, RMA it over the Border is always a concern for US sites.

Two of my nephews are Software Engineers (one makes games for EA Sports for the last 7 years or so. And yes my son gets any EA title from him for the employee price of $10 Canadian). I've built Gamer Boxes for them, as well as a couple for my brother, their dad. But lately they've all starting to migrate away to Laptops except my son. My brother says his son (the EA Sports one) is still using his box for gaming and 3D virtual stuff though.

Anyway, even though the 13th gen Intel stuff is out and I'm looking for a deal. Right now I've got an eye on an Intel BX8071512700K Core i7-12700K Octa-Core 3.6GHz Processor, and an ASUS TUF Z690PLUS Wi-Fi D4 ATX LGA 1700 Motherboard at a site I frequent from time to time. They are both overkill for my present use but I like a deal, and somehow can always justify overspending for "future" compatibility o my own Box. I'm also looking at an Intel Core i5-12600K and an ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F but the DDR-5 RAM is scary price wise. It's on a bundled price of only $586 C$

@Cos Sorry but I'm not into Boxes with plexiglass windows and RGB lighting, and I've got all the folks I build Rigs for convinced the same. I'm into performance, as usually these Rigs are not what you look at, but rather the Monitor is. Your Rig does look cool but I'll save the $ for a better piece of Kit. I actually turned off the RGB lighting on a couple of the most recent Boxes when some of the good gear comes with it.

I gotta run to the Boat Show...More later!

 

[Cos]

Thanks for the suggestions Gents.

In my mind I was always headed down the Noctua Cooler road when I was conceptualizing a new Box; until EVGA sent a new 240 mm Closed Loop CPU Cooler as a warranty replacement for a smaller 120 mm unit that failed in a Gamer Box I'd built for one of my sons. He couldn't wait for the RMA process so I subbed an Artic Black unit when my local Canada Computers shop didn't have the right Noctua on the shelf. (I cut them some slack as it was July 2021 and in the middle of Covid and major supply issues.) He Games daily after work, and it's his primary source of entertainment. Waiting for parts was definitely not on his radar. The Artic Black was only to be a temporary fix but we've been monitoring it and it's worked flawlessly. So I'll still with the EVGA Cooler for the initial build even though I'm not planning to overclock.

The Bitfienix Ghost Case I'm rebuilding into is spacious, and quiet, but when I mentioned that I was going to re-use it to my wife she quipped: You'll probably find a reason to get a new one. Sometimes I feel like she's just testing me...

I typically like to use a local supplier like Canada Computers (10 minutes away), or Memory Express (who's 45 minutes away), rather than a Web store but for the last Gamer Box I did use Newegg for the NVMe drive & Ebay of all places for the CPU. If something is (very unusual) dead at installation, RMA it over the Border is always a concern for US sites.

Two of my nephews are Software Engineers (one makes games for EA Sports for the last 7 years or so. And yes my son gets any EA title from him for the employee price of $10 Canadian). I've built Gamer Boxes for them, as well as a couple for my brother, their dad. But lately they've all starting to migrate away to Laptops except my son. My brother says his son (the EA Sports one) is still using his box for gaming and 3D virtual stuff though.

Anyway, even though the 13th gen Intel stuff is out and I'm looking for a deal. Right now I've got an eye on an Intel BX8071512700K Core i7-12700K Octa-Core 3.6GHz Processor, and an ASUS TUF Z690PLUS Wi-Fi D4 ATX LGA 1700 Motherboard at a site I frequent from time to time. They are both overkill for my present use but I like a deal, and somehow can always justify overspending for "future" compatibility o my own Box. I'm also looking at an Intel Core i5-12600K and an ASUS ROG Strix Z690-F but the DDR-5 RAM is scary price wise. It's on a bundled price of only $586 C$

@Cos Sorry but I'm not into Boxes with plexiglass windows and RGB lighting, and I've got all the folks I build Rigs for convinced the same. I'm into performance, as usually these Rigs are not what you look at, but rather the Monitor is. Your Rig does look cool but I'll save the $ for a better piece of Kit. I actually turned off the RGB lighting on a couple of the most recent Boxes when some of the good gear comes with it.

I gotta run to the Boat Show...More later!

"Sorry but I'm not into Boxes with plexiglass windows and RGB lighting."

Jim, I am sorry too,

• It's a Lian Li Dynamic Evo and it's glass not plexiglass. It's one of the highest rated cases for airflow. I actually added the front mesh panel and for airflow, it's hard to beat. Build quality and a case that is easy to work with where two additional selling points. I also did not want a full-size tower, having built many of those, I wanted something more compact.
• I went with the Lian Li case fans because of the ease of use, RGB is cool, but they are solid performing fans. SL120 UNI INFINTY.. They have connectors and click into each other. Instead of 3 fan cords, I only need to use one for all three, much easier to work with. They were tested and do a solid job with airflow. I could have gone with Noctua case fans, but I wanted less cable mess, especially considering I needed 3 8 pins for the 4090 RTX and my case has cable overload already LOL.
• I splurged on the 360mm NZXT CPU cooler with the LED screen, but it is also top rated. I also like that it gives the temps for my CPU/GPU on the screen.

My goal was to have fun with this build, my intention was not to imply you should build one like mine. My parts are still performance, so your comment it somewhat ignorant. I know how to build a PC, I have built plenty LOL.

 

[-Jim-]

@Cos I wasn't implying your RGB gear was inadequate, or lacked performance. At the end of my post I even said "I actually turned off the RGB lighting on a couple of the most recent Boxes when some of the good gear comes with it." That meant good components can come with RGB (and some times that's at a better price point than non RGB stuff) but in cases without side windows (Glass or Plexiglas) it just a waste to leave it on. I've turned off the CPU Waterblocks, Case Fans, and Video Cards at times. I see nothing ignorant in my comments, but each to his own.

Today I bought (on-line) the Intel BX8071512700K Core i7-12700K Octa-Core 3.6GHz Processor I mentioned above for $307 C$ (about $229 USD). So that pretty much puts a fork into the start of the Build. So now my next step will be a motherboard to suit, then RAM, NvMe, etc., etc.

 

[-Jim-]

Hi Gents.

I'm pretty much complete on the Box rebuild. To save some $$ I went with the last generation rather than Intel's latest (and pricier) CPU and DDR5 RAM. Here's the new Bits:

Intel® Core™ i7-12700K Processor
ASUS TUF Gaming Z690-Plus Wi-Fi D4 Motherboard
EVGA 240 mm Closed Loop CPU Cooler
WD_BLACK SN770 NVMe M.2 PCI-E 4.0 SSD- 1TB
TeamGroup T-FORCE VULCAN Z Gray 64GB (2x32GB) DDR4 3600MHz CL18 Kit
Corsair RM850x 80+ Gold Modular Power Supply

I reused the Bitfienix Ghost Case , Gigabyte Windforce Nvidia GTX-970 GPU, and a LG Blue-Ray Burner with a Samsung DVD Burner.

My Misses asked me how much I spent so far last night at Dinner. I said about $1,000 plus taxes and shipping (remember I am Canadian!) as I got great deals on the new stuff. She asked if I was finished buying, and I said I'm waffling on a new Video Card but they are outrageously expensive.

EVGA tried to steer me wrong and buy a $40 Cooler Bracket for the LGA 1700 CPUs from their sub-supplier. But the stock bracket fit perfectly in the Asus Z690 MB as it is "special" and has 2 sets of cooler holes.

I originally used the Graphics built into the CPU for the initial boot and OS (Windows 11 Pro) install. It worked very well. While Windows was doing some updates, I went to clean off the Gigabyte Windforce Nvidia GTX-970 GPU card, and noticed one of it's 3 fans was seized. I got it loosened up, but the hub bearing looked like it was done as it wobbled all over. I got it to spin and installed it. It howled so I knew that fan was toast. When I rebooted it jammed itself again and went dead quiet.

I was in such a rush to verify the components via the AIDA63 Extreme stress test I didn't even optimize the Cooling Fans. The components easily passed. I just pushed everything full tilt for the testing, and got lucky.

My personal inventory was limited to only one new Case Fan (as I wanted to replace both old ones), which ended up being RGB (RED) OMG! And the local computer store was all out of standard ones, so I'll wait until they restock. Maybe I'll find something decent on Sale somewhere.

Try as I might, no local supply of those Video Card Fans exist, so I bit the bullet and bought them off eBay. Even though the vendor quoted them in Euros (?) they are coming from China (of course). The estimated delivery date is between Tue, Mar 7 - Mon, Mar 20. That was the shortest cycle promised out of half a dozen listings or so. So I'll keep my fingers crossed the GPU will function until then.

In the meantime some of the Windows 11 peculiarities are already driving me crazy. Never before have I thought of trying to tweak a Windows OS "back" to regain something I use. This time may be the first. I'm not a Fan of the new Start Menu but I could probably live with it if they didn't mess up the "Right-Click" Menu. Maybe I'm just a Dinosaur and can't learn to adjust!

I'm looking at Start11 or StartAllBack - with the latter looking like the winner so far. Have any of you ever tweaked a Windows OS to regain lost features? Does Windows Update just erase these tweaks next time around?

Your comments will be appreciated.

This rebuild, although challenging at times, has been fun. And dam, the Box is quick!

 

[panteragstk]

I haven't tried to tweak 11 yet just because I don't use it on my work laptop or my main PC yet. I have it on my tablet and the kids PCs, but don't use them all that much.

I'm sure there are ways to restore some of the right click functionality, but I haven't had time to dive into it yet. That's my main frustration so far with 11. If I right click on my task bar, I want to be able to launch task manager without much work.

Why make things MORE clicks? Fewer is better.

 

[everettT]

I haven't tried to tweak 11 yet just because I don't use it on my work laptop or my main PC yet. I have it on my tablet and the kids PCs, but don't use them all that much.

I'm sure there are ways to restore some of the right click functionality, but I haven't had time to dive into it yet. That's my main frustration so far with 11. If I right click on my task bar, I want to be able to launch task manager without much work.

Why make things MORE clicks? Fewer is better.

I use open shell to emulate win7 start menu and deaktp UI functions on my 11 machines but it's probably not necessary as 11 is pretty easy to get use to and can be made almost 7 like.

I've still got my main workstation/server running 7 and really need to build another as I'm still running an AMD FX9370 from 2015 but it just keeps doing the job perfectly other then some apple software issues.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hi Gang,

My main PC has started to reboot itself at random, but it seems to do it with more frequency as time goes by.

Sounds like a DIMM (computer memory) problem. You can follow this guide to confirm it. Alternatively, if you have two or more memory sticks, pull one out and see if reboots continue.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Also If you're interested in a smallish but powerful and inexpensive PC, check out the Beelink brand:

Amazon.com : beelink mini pc

.
If you curious to know how one CPU compares to another (I use it all the time as going by brand/model is nearly pointless and has been for a while) - I aways use the Passmark score to get a general idea of performance. Keep in mind that a big number is multi-core, there is also a smaller single-core performance result, that could be important, depending on the apps. Generally, stuff like opening an app is storage and single core dependent.
For example:

Intel Pentium Silver J5005 Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

vs

Intel Core i5-11320H Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

To find these, I just google CPU model and word passmark. very easy

 

[panteragstk]

Also If you're interested in a smallish but powerful and inexpensive PC, check out the Beelink brand:

Amazon.com : beelink mini pc

.
If you curious to know how one CPU compares to another (I use it all the time as going by brand/model is nearly pointless and has been for a while) - I aways use the Passmark score to get a general idea of performance. Keep in mind that a big number is multi-core, there is also a smaller single-core performance result, that could be important, depending on the apps. Generally, stuff like opening an app is storage and single core dependent.
For example:

Intel Pentium Silver J5005 Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

vs

Intel Core i5-11320H Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

To find these, I just google CPU model and word passmark. very easy

I've been looking at those same CPUs as a possible tiny Opnsense box to test with, but I found I can just replace the guts of my old "router" pc I had running for years, for less money, so I may go that route.

I recently got two of these for $260 each for the kids and they seem pretty good so far.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B7LCNP32?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

EDIT: My mistake. I was looking at one of the newer i3 CPUs vs the j5005 vs Celeron N5105

Intel Core i3-12100 Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

Intel Celeron N5105 Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

2nd Edit: This is what I have now for comparison.

Intel Pentium G3258 Benchmark

www.cpubenchmark.net

 

[-Jim-]

Sounds like a DIMM (computer memory) problem. You can follow this guide to confirm it. Alternatively, if you have two or more memory sticks, pull one out and see if reboots continue.

Thanks, I suspected a Ram or motherboard issue but I'm into the new build as the old components mostly went to the recycler. It was well past the time for them to be retired.

The new build is major overkill for my needs but if things change it'll be up to it.

I may have to purchase a better video card for some applications, but we'll see.

 

[MrBoat]

I have become so much less reliant on computing power in the last few years, other than what it takes to run the games I play. The last i7 based system I got has lasted 5 years by now. My only real gripe is driver updates. I used to be so far into the inner workings of Win and Linux OS's that I could have qualified for a job that required it, and was actually offered a job at TIA for it.

Now I don't care about it anymore. Have even developed somewhat of a mental block to it all, since. Now I end up having to relearn things again and it better be something easy or I will scrap it and buy a new one. It's another one of those technologies that the improvements come at unnoticeable rates, like audio. I would have to leave it all alone for 5 years before I noticed the performance differences that the new (bloated and redundant, FME) software eats as fast as they occur.

Last machine before this one was a Dell Optiplex that I ended up putting Linux on to squeeze more time out of it and it ended up going for another 5 years before I got this one. Only thing I had to change was a power supply and the power switch.

Everything I do now is pretty much web and text based so I really don't need a lot of computing power these days.

 

[Eppie]

If anyone wants to stretch out the life of their current system, consider adding more RAM and changing mechanical hard drives to SSDs. I'm still running an older i5 but chose good quality components (I build my own systems). Main issue with the system getting older is disk thrashing. I have many concurrent tasks running, like Roon, Plex, Steam, Epic Games Launcher, AV software, One Drive, Google Drive and Western Digital software for backups, office apps, etc., so the memory requirements have gone up over the years. That leads to Windows using a lot of temp files and using the hard drive for memory swapping which really slows things down. Throwing RAM at that problem only works if you have a 64-bit OS as 32-bit Windows does have memory limitations. SSDs will speed up just about any system that has the OS installed on a mechanical hard drive.

 

[-Jim-]

I've had the "new" Box up and running for a bit over a week now, and so far I'm impressed. It's really quick, and quite quiet.

The new Video Card Fans have left China and are due here between March 8 => 20. (Must be on a slow boat...). In the meantime I'm not doing anything GPU intensive. I'm working through a couple of glitches with Asus Tech Support on their Armoury / Fan Expert motherboard monitor and control software. But the Box is running very cool.

I never see it get past 11% memory utilization of the 64 Gigs I put into it so far. Even with Word Running, Outlook, Windows Explorer looking at two locations on different Hard Drives, AIDA64 Extreme running, with 5 different websites open in Chrome, and Media Player playing Little River Band Hits in the background it was only using 11%. With 20 Cores available, CPU utilization is insignificant.

I installed Startallback, and so far I'm pleased with it too.

 

[panteragstk]

Nice. I don't ever get close to my installed 32gb of memory either. There have been a game or two that took up a lot of it, but never all of it. So I can imagine with 64gb you'll be good on memory for quite a while.

I'll have to look into Startallback and see how it works.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm trying to stay reasonable for this build and go with a 12th generation Intel CPU, and Z690 motherboard...

I'll probably just rebuild into the same case

Yeah, when I "rebuild" I always get an i9 CPU + MSI Z motherboard + Nvidia GPU + Samsung M.2 for Windows OS + Samsung SSD for storage.

What does your OLD CASE look like?