Denon x4800h vs Marantz Cinema 50

[Cappie]

Good point.

 

[PENG]

Again, the test results between the 3 units will clear up a lot. I realize that the 3800 does almost everything that the 4800 does at a cheaper price.

Be very careful with such thinking! Yes, it sounds logical, but if we look at the 2016 to 2020 models you will have to consider the following facts, that may not may not (most likely may) apply to the 2023 models.

The X3600H, X3700H, X4700H, X6700H, X8500H have all been measured and they all practically measured the same except the X8500H that did while practically the same but noticeably better on paper except its power amp section measured worse. A couple dB in SINAD, IMD, SNR on the bench means nothing audibly speaking, and even on paper when you factor in the variability (a couple dBs)s that may not be well controlled, unless all of the DUTs were measured under the exact same conditions, preferably on the same day, by the same person.

They also measured the Marantz including 2 AV8805 (one with the inferior Sabre ES DAC), 2 AV7705, SR6014 and 2 SR7015, and again they all measured practically the same, with the much cheaper SR6014 measured better than the SR7015 on paper so are we going to say the SR7015 is the better one? Surely it is, even though it measured poorer than the SR6014, if you consider what's inside them, aside from the few features that are not found in the SR6014

I tried explaining something similar, to someone on ASR several times, who made the same points you did, but I doubt he understood the principles of my points. One doesn't need to be an EE, but does need to have some basic understanding of EE principle, lab measurement/QA practice, in order to understand, unfortunately..

But the Audi Q5 does almost everything that the Porsche Macan does at a cheaper price. They share a lot of the same components. But that doesn't make them the same. Not by a long shot. Anyway, I just find it curious as to why the 4800 isn't getting much attention from the audio community so far. At the very least, for the same price as the Cinema 50, the 4800, at face value, would appear to be a far better spend of your dollars. So many questions, so many unknowns. Lol.

That is not a suitable analogy because in the case of the Audi and Porsche example, you can easily see the different parts and components used in them, let alone the major differences in the design, manufacturing process and QA/QS systems.

The Denon and Marantz AVRs I mentioned above share a very large proportion of the parts and components, for example the preamp section uses the same DSP processors, opamps, DAC chip, volume control chips and circuitry as well; and the power amp sections are virtually the same. You can see it for yourself if you look at the block diagrams and schematics included in the service manuals that D+M have made available for purchase, for most of those models.

 

[Cappie]

First and foremost, I am brand new to this forum and I have been very impressed with the number of positive and insightful comments from the members. Definitely worth noting. Thanks to all who have contributed their knowledge and experience. To me, it has been very helpful in my journey to making the best decision for ME.

I must note, that I went to the only two semi-local businesses that have demo rooms to showcase their equipment and hopefully, get the sale on their audio equipment. While both had most of the 3 avrs that I am considering, and even one company had 3 of the units setup in an atmos listening room, NEITHER BUSINESS COULD GET ANY OF THEM TO WORK TO IN THE DEMO ROOM FOR ME!! Talk about the best way to lose a sale. I was really taken aback. In such a competitive market, how can a brick and mortar store be so poorly setup and managed. Would you have any faith in their customer service program? Totally disappointed that I drove so far to look at the units I was considering to purchased, only to not be able to listen to a single one of them. WTH. Rant over.

I'll have to see if I can find the link I read, but it showed a much more detailed breakdown of the differences between the 4800 and the 3800. Many more differences than what has typically been posted on other post and videos. Are they worth the price difference? Not sure, but more and more, I am leaning that way. I looked at the Marantz Cinema 50 up close and listened to it In a 2 channel setup. Of course, they were not on my speakers and not in my room, but I was a bit unimpressed compared to all the hype. Seemed like lipstick on a pig in comparison to the Denon 3800. The plastic front felt cheap and it looks a lot better in pictures than it did in real life. Just my personal opinion. I looked at the Denon 4700 which is similar to what the 4800 looks like, and the 4700 was clearly much more substantial and much higher quality feeling. That's not personal preference, that's something that you can touch and feel. Again, what does that equate to in sound quality, internal build quality differences, life of the unit, we still need to answer. But the more I research, (minus any test results to-date), the more the 4800 seems to be the smartest overall choice over the 3800 and the Cinema 50.
Once again, it has been an absolute pleasure being a new member and first time poster. I am impressed with this forum based on my first experience. Thanks for treating a newbie with respect and being so open to sharing your thoughts. To all who took the time to comment, I appreciate it very much.

 

[PENG]

I'll have to see if I can find the link I read, but it showed a much more detailed breakdown of the differences between the 4800 and the 3800. Many more differences than what has typically been posted on other post and videos. Are they worth the price difference? Not sure, but more and more, I am leaning that way. I looked at the Marantz Cinema 50 up close and listened to it In a 2 channel setup. Of course, they were not on my speakers and not in my room, but I was a bit unimpressed compared to all the hype. Seemed like lipstick on a pig in comparison to the Denon 3800. The plastic front felt cheap and it looks a lot better in pictures than it did in real life. Just my personal opinion. I looked at the Denon 4700 which is similar to what the 4800 looks like, and the 4700 was clearly much more substantial and much higher quality feeling. That's not personal preference, that's something that you can touch and feel. Again, what does that equate to in sound quality, internal build quality differences, life of the unit, we still need to answer. But the more I research, (minus any test results to-date), the more the 4800 seems to be the smartest overall choice over the 3800 and the Cinema 50.
Once again, it has been an absolute pleasure being a new member and first time poster. I am impressed with this forum based on my first experience. Thanks for treating a newbie with respect and being so open to sharing your thoughts. To all who took the time to comment, I appreciate it very much.

If you can find that link, please share. As far as I know, in terms of the 3800 vs 4800, the most informative and reliable source is the video I linked in post#3. It was presented by a product manager of Masimo, owner of the Marantz and Denon brands. All other (numerous) Youtuber presented videos simply regurgitate the marketing info you can find from the Denon websites and some online reviewers including Audioholics. The Masimo training video actually dived into the internal parts and block diagrams, many of which are only found in service manuals.

Another reliable source is the one linked below, by Simple Home Cinema:
Denon X3800H versus Denon X4800H – Simple Home Cinema

Simple Home Cinema also made reference to, with link included, that same Maximo training video mentioned above.

If you are not particularly into the style of the Cinema 50, and if you are in the US, or Canada, then I would highly recommend the X4800H because in the US it is actually $1 less than the Cinema 50 that is really an AVR-X3800H with lipstick (borrowed from you lol..) In Europe and Asia, the price between the X3800H and Cinema 50 are much closer, about 200 Euro, so there isn't much saving going with the Denon.

By the way, I am not surprised your local dealer won't set up your target devices for a good AB comparison, but you tell them you will buy one of the 3 after the comparison then they may do it. It is a lot of work to set up 3 or even 2 for a real AB comparison that allows you to switch between them quickly. Even if you can do it, it will not mean anything unless it is level matched to within 0.5 dB and following the DBT protocol.

Are you still concerned about "sound quality" difference between the ones you are considering? If so, don't, I have compare my own avrs, avps to my very good quality, much more expensive "separates", for the most parts there were no audible difference and measurements would support that too. Those who heard differences are most likely due to other factors. I would still pay more for the look/style, better build quality and convenient, useful features.

 

[Cappie]

If you can find that link, please share. As far as I know, in terms of the 3800 vs 4800, the most informative and reliable source is the video I linked in post#3. It was presented by a product manager of Masimo, owner of the Marantz and Denon brands. All other (numerous) Youtuber presented videos simply regurgitate the marketing info you can find from the Denon websites and some online reviewers including Audioholics. The Masimo training video actually dived into the internal parts and block diagrams, many of which are only found in service manuals.

Another reliable source is the one linked below, by Simple Home Cinema:
Denon X3800H versus Denon X4800H – Simple Home Cinema

Simple Home Cinema also made reference to, with link included, that same Maximo training video mentioned above.

If you are not particularly into the style of the Cinema 50, and if you are in the US, or Canada, then I would highly recommend the X4800H because in the US it is actually $1 less than the Cinema 50 that is really an AVR-X3800H with lipstick (borrowed from you lol..) In Europe and Asia, the price between the X3800H and Cinema 50 are much closer, about 200 Euro, so there isn't much saving going with the Denon.

By the way, I am not surprised your local dealer won't set up your target devices for a good AB comparison, but you tell them you will buy one of the 3 after the comparison then they may do it. It is a lot of work to set up 3 or even 2 for a real AB comparison that allows you to switch between them quickly. Even if you can do it, it will not mean anything unless it is level matched to within 0.5 dB and following the DBT protocol.

Are you still concerned about "sound quality" difference between the ones you are considering? If so, don't, I have compare my own avrs, avps to my very good quality, much more expensive "separates", for the most parts there were no audible difference and measurements would support that too. Those who heard differences are most likely due to other factors. I would still pay more for the look/style, better build quality and convenient, useful features.

You are spot on. I am 90+% decided on the 4800.
The obvious differences are the monolithic power supply, extra connectivity. I haven't found the article yet, I think it was from Massimo video, but off of memory, you have AL32 vs AL16 which provides a cleaner digital signal. You have a upgraded Griffith processor. You have individual boards for each channel vs one board for all channels. And obviously, build quality inside and out is noticeably much higher.
Again, this is from memory so feel free to correct me on anything that you have info on that states otherwise. I wish I could find where I saw this, but I have searched so much, even in different countries, that I just don't remember where I saw it.
Peng, your input has been and continues to give me an unbiased perspective into my search and decision making process. Much appreciated.

 

[Cappie]

Okay Peng. I was clearly mixed up on a few things. I found the video link from Masimo. It is long and painfully dry, but it is right from the horses mouth. Watch the clip and listen to this guy's monotone voice explain some of the features unique to various models.

They will note in the bottom righthand corner which models the features apply later in the video. My take away is that the power supply is bigger factor, not in increased power, but in much cleaner and noise free power. That the AL32 bit processing will give you an improved digital audio signal. Is that going to be audibly noticeable to our ears? Dunno. But that is only available in the 4800 and up models. The D.D.S.C.-HD32 Dynanic Discrete Surround Circuit available in the 4800 and up. Again, can you hear a difference? Dunno.

I attached some snapshots below that shows features that the 3800 does not have.

So anyway, these are differences that are either not pointed out or not understood fully as to what they accomplish from what I have read so far. Again, audio quality that is audibly noticeable to our ears is so incremental, especially when comparing it to how much more that you have to pay to get just a little more performance. The 3800 came out a little too fast and was buggy. The firmware update fixed most of the issues, but I still read about lot more issues than I would like to see with a new model. That doesn't seem to be the case with the 4800, but then again, it was just recently launched. Where did I put my crystal ball ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Peng
100 percent agree. I am going to hold off until I see the test results. As you noted, I can't find any rational reason to pick the Marantz over a Denon other than looks or brand prestige and I can't hear that. So, I have narrowed it down to the 4800 or the 3800. We'll see if the test results warrant the price difference. Thank you for your input.

As PENG and other experienced enthusiasts will point out (including Amir at ASR), these measurements (especially among the same price class of Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Anthem, etc.) are INAUDIBLE in real life.

A reviewer may or may not “recommend” a certain AVR based on other factors, but those factors aren’t about audible differences.

An amp with SINAD of -110dB isn’t going to sound “cleaner” and more “neutral” than an amp with SINAD of -90dB. Yet, I do see people believing that it does make a big difference.

Still, it’s understandable for anyone to buy one AVR over another if that one AVR has better measurements even if they are inaudible.

 

[PENG]

Okay Peng. I was clearly mixed up on a few things. I found the video link from Masimo. It is long and painfully dry, but it is right from the horses mouth. Watch the clip and listen to this guy's monotone voice explain some of the features unique to various models.

They will note in the bottom righthand corner which models the features apply later in the video. My take away is that the power supply is bigger factor, not in increased power, but in much cleaner and noise free power. That the AL32 bit processing will give you an improved digital audio signal. Is that going to be audibly noticeable to our ears? Dunno. But that is only available in the 4800 and up models. The D.D.S.C.-HD32 Dynanic Discrete Surround Circuit available in the 4800 and up. Again, can you hear a difference? Dunno.

I attached some snapshots below that shows features that the 3800 does not have.

So anyway, these are differences that are either not pointed out or not understood fully as to what they accomplish from what I have read so far. Again, audio quality that is audibly noticeable to our ears is so incremental, especially when comparing it to how much more that you have to pay to get just a little more performance. The 3800 came out a little too fast and was buggy. The firmware update fixed most of the issues, but I still read about lot more issues than I would like to see with a new model. That doesn't seem to be the case with the 4800, but then again, it was just recently launched. Where did I put my crystal ball ?

Well I guess you did mix up a little. The Masima training video is in fact the same video I linked in post#3!! It may look different from the outside and that confused you, but if you had clicked on the link, it would have shown you the exact video. I even repeated it in post #24 that it was the Masimo video presented by their product manager.

While it is informative and more accurate than the regular Youtubers, you cannot believe their marketing talks about things like "..cleaner and noise free.., DDSC, AL32, etc., in terms of resulting in audibly noticeable.....", just like Marantz's HDAMs, gold plated connectors, soundmastering tuning etc., kind of nonsense, they all sound good but are still 99% marketing stuff. As you said, any such sound quality differences may be incremental (at best, most likely totally inaudible). Lab measurements, AB listening comparison (DBT protocol) proved that time and again!

By the way, the X3800H and X4800H use the same Griffin DSPs, it says that on the video too, you should re-watch it if you want to see it for yourself. This has been the case since the AVR-X3700H vs X4700H, same for Marantz too, you only get the higher end DSP when you jump to the flagship models such as the X8500H, A110, now A1H.

Regardless, if I were facing the same decision, I would still go with the 4800 for reasons I stated before. So I am with you on that one.

Another useful link to bookmark:

HCFR News – Denon les intégré 2022_2023 - HCFR Forum & Magazine (homecinema-fr.com)

 

[PENG]

As PENG and other experienced enthusiasts will point out (including Amir at ASR), these measurements (especially among the same price class of Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Anthem, etc.) are INAUDIBLE in real life.

A reviewer may or may not “recommend” a certain AVR based on other factors, but those factors aren’t about audible differences.

An amp with SINAD of -110dB isn’t going to sound “cleaner” and more “neutral” than an amp with SINAD of -90dB. Yet, I do see people believing that it does make a big difference.

Still, it’s understandable for anyone to buy one AVR over another if that one AVR has better measurements even if they are inaudible

Cappie, the OP said he's new here, so I would say he had come to the right place. People like you and I, Trell, HD and others who can say been there, done that, have the opportunity to help him from being influenced by professional reviewer (most likely have financial incentive) and nowadays numerous Youtubers with the one sided stories based on little facts and science but on regurgitated marketing info and myths.

 

[Thrill Killer]

I'm 90'ish% for the X4800H. I read in 2 places, can't remember where, that the 4800 has superior audio chain to the 3800 (not that it's bad). And, that the 3800 audio is not as good as the 3700. I also watched that Masimo? vidyo on the 4800. It seems to be what I need. A lot of the functions are going to be turned on in March via FW-UD. With Dirac Live as a "Available Upgrade" coming "..In late March". I'm coming from a Yamaha TRS-7850. And I've waited long enough. The RZ50 seems fine, has Dirac Live. But, for me it's tech is too old. As it's a few years old now. And was designed even earlier. The 4800 is the 'Latest' tech to get at a moderate price. It has the features that I as a A/V consumer need, want, and use on the daily. So, I'll PTT on this in the next week or two.

The C50 certainly looks really nice. And it's features are similar. But, I haven't seen a Masimo vidyo on that. The dude goes in deep. Which is why I'm 90+% for the 4800. It ticks 90% of my boxes/needs. I've come to realize that I will never find a truly something that has "Everything" the way I think it should be. Such as Top Shelf-Greatest-Bestest ever unless I go Pre-Pro. And I'm just not gonna do that. It's not funds. It's use. I don't have a "Dedicated Man Cave/Home Theatre Room". I have a living room for my A/V set up like the 99% of us who buy AVRs. So the 4800 is most likely for me. If you're interested, watch the entirety of that vidyo. It certainly swayed me.

The power ratings are for 2 ch. driven. Dem basturds. So, you'll end up with 70'ish% of that with all ch. driven.
That's okay though. I'm also getting a Monolith 5x200W amp and Hisense 75U9DG tv.

Masimo Consumer Training: Denon X4800H

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I read in 2 places, can't remember where, that the 4800 has superior audio chain to the 3800 (not that it's bad). And, that the 3800 audio is not as good as the 3700….

Did you read in 2 other places where they said the 4800, 3800, and 3700 sound exactly the same with the exact settings?

I think the X3700’s THD+N is about 0.003% and the X3800 is 0.004%. The X4800 might be 0.003% or 0.002% or even better.

I am not sure about the other measurements like SNR, crosstalk. But they are likely very similar and insignificant.

So sure, the x3700 has a better DAC than the x3800, but nobody is going to hear the difference between these 2 DAC.

At least that’s from the other 2 places.

 

[Cos]

I agree with pretty much everything that Peng has stated previously

The only reason I would consider the Cinema 50 over the 4800 for home theater, is looks. Denon needs a cosmetic update IMO, but that should not be the main reason for purchasing.

"I looked at the Marantz Cinema 50 up close and listened to it In a 2 channel setup. Of course, they were not on my speakers and not in my room, but I was a bit unimpressed compared to all the hype. Seemed like lipstick on a pig in comparison to the Denon 3800."

That comment was concerning, because honestly I don't believe you would hear much of a sonic difference between the 50 and x4800h or x3800h all things being equal. I would definitely wait to demo the 4800h

I am not sure of the build quality as it compares to my model 40n, but I can assure you that build quality on my unit is top notch, I like the metal front panel and nobs, not sure if this carries over to the Cinema 50, but the side panels seem to be the same.

A minor complaint/major complaint for me is that the Cinema 50, only has a porthole display. As a previous AV8802A Pre/Pro owner, I would miss having the second screen. I will say that I have adapted with the AVM70 and using it's web interface on my ipad.

I agree the 4800h seems like the smarter choice for home theater, not sure how much of a sonic difference you would hear between it and the Cinema 50 however.

 

[Thrill Killer]

Did you read in 2 other places where they said the 4800, 3800, and 3700 sound exactly the same with the exact settings?

I think the X3700’s THD+N is about 0.003% and the X3800 is 0.004%. The X4800 might be 0.003% or 0.002% or even better.

I am not sure about the other measurements like SNR, crosstalk. But they are likely very similar and insignificant.

So sure, the x3700 has a better DAC than the x3800, but nobody is going to hear the difference between these 2 DAC.

At least that’s from the other 2 places.

All that is most likely true. But, in the end, It's gonna be the X4800H for me for the reasons stated in my post. All things being equal, I don't think I could tell a sonic difference between the 4800 vs the 50. I think it's going to come down to the 'ol car analogy. Ford vs Chevy, etc.

 

[ban25]

Did you read in 2 other places where they said the 4800, 3800, and 3700 sound exactly the same with the exact settings?

I think the X3700’s THD+N is about 0.003% and the X3800 is 0.004%. The X4800 might be 0.003% or 0.002% or even better.

I am not sure about the other measurements like SNR, crosstalk. But they are likely very similar and insignificant.

So sure, the x3700 has a better DAC than the x3800, but nobody is going to hear the difference between these 2 DAC.

At least that’s from the other 2 places.

And that only holds for the first production run of the X3700H in 2020. By Spring of 2021, all X3700Hs has been changed to the same TI PCM5102a DAC as found in the 3800/4800/C50/C40. So if you were to buy a new X3700H today (just as I bought one last year), you are certain to get the same DAC as in the 3800. And that DAC sounds just fine, btw. It's also in my several of my Bluesound products and probably my Rotel A14 MKII.

 

[ban25]

All that is most likely true. But, in the end, It's gonna be the X4800H for me for the reasons stated in my post. All things being equal, I don't think I could tell a sonic difference between the 4800 vs the 50. I think it's going to come down to the 'ol car analogy. Ford vs Chevy, etc.

Chevy

But yeah, I think there are good reasons to pick the X4800H. Higher build quality, made in Shirakawa, more copper, more expensive materials. Plus it has analog inputs! I have two RetroTink 5X's doing that duty, but I would never say no to another set of component inputs.

 

[ban25]

I agree with pretty much everything that Peng has stated previously

The only reason I would consider the Cinema 50 over the 4800 for home theater, is looks. Denon needs a cosmetic update IMO, but that should not be the main reason for purchasing.

"I looked at the Marantz Cinema 50 up close and listened to it In a 2 channel setup. Of course, they were not on my speakers and not in my room, but I was a bit unimpressed compared to all the hype. Seemed like lipstick on a pig in comparison to the Denon 3800."

That comment was concerning, because honestly I don't believe you would hear much of a sonic difference between the 50 and x4800h or x3800h all things being equal. I would definitely wait to demo the 4800h

I am not sure of the build quality as it compares to my model 40n, but I can assure you that build quality on my unit is top notch, I like the metal front panel and nobs, not sure if this carries over to the Cinema 50, but the side panels seem to be the same.

A minor complaint/major complaint for me is that the Cinema 50, only has a porthole display. As a previous AV8802A Pre/Pro owner, I would miss having the second screen. I will say that I have adapted with the AVM70 and using it's web interface on my ipad.

I agree the 4800h seems like the smarter choice for home theater, not sure how much of a sonic difference you would hear between it and the Cinema 50 however.

I agree that aesthetics are the most important criteria to distinguish between the D+M line. I personally would not have a Denon AVR sitting out in my living room because they look like they came straight from the late '80s, and not in a good way. . Note that they sound just fine and have all the features you need.

The new Marantz Cinema line is gorgeous and well-built. Note that the scalloped front facia for all models is polycarbonate, from the C70 to the AV10/AMP10. However, the 40n, SACD 30n, C40, and AV10 all have an aluminum front panel (the part containing the port-hole and the flip down door to the display). I am not sure if the C50 front panel is polycarbonate or aluminum, but I suspect it is polycarbonate.

 

[PENG]

That comment was concerning, because honestly I don't believe you would hear much of a sonic difference between the 50 and x4800h or x3800h all things being equal. I would definitely wait to demo the 4800h

Agreed, I would even include the Cinema 40, that they will all have the same or at least near identical sonic characteristics. The X8500H, A110, A1H, AV8805, AV10 etc., (not sure about the X6700H and SR8015) will also sound the same (same difference that is) except they may sound audibly different (likely still subtle) for movies, at least some movies. I only say that because going from the Denon AVR to the AVM70, I thought the Anthem seems better in movies, in terms of clarity/details. All just sighted non AB comparisons (that is, by memory) so it may just be perception only.

I can only attibute such perceptible difference to a) the difference DSPs, and b) bias, or both. For music, I absolutely don't feel any such perceptible difference would exist in a blind test.

The mid range Denon and Marantz AVRs have the exact same DSPs, same as you AV8802A's too.
The 2022/23 models do have the upgraded DSPs but again, the C40, 50, X3800H, X4800H have the same Griffin lite XP DSPs.

 

[lovinthehd]

I agree that aesthetics are the most important criteria to distinguish between the D+M line. I personally would not have a Denon AVR sitting out in my living room because they look like they came straight from the late '80s, and not in a good way. . Note that they sound just fine and have all the features you need.

The new Marantz Cinema line is gorgeous and well-built. Note that the scalloped front facia for all models is polycarbonate, from the C70 to the AV10/AMP10. However, the 40n, SACD 30n, C40, and AV10 all have an aluminum front panel (the part containing the port-hole and the flip down door to the display). I am not sure if the C50 front panel is polycarbonate or aluminum, but I suspect it is polycarbonate.

I'm somewhat the opposite, don't mind a typical black box at all, it just gets tucked into a rack, even in the living room, and not in line of sight as I don't need to gaze at it but do like a full panel there when I want it from my seat....but really not a fan of the porthole (what decade is that, 1930s art deco sort of? ). I don't finger 'em much so really don't care what material the fascia is sculpted from either....

 

[ban25]

I'm somewhat the opposite, don't mind a typical black box at all, it just gets tucked into a rack, even in the living room, and not in line of sight as I don't need to gaze at it but do like a full panel there when I want it from my seat....but really not a fan of the porthole (what decade is that, 1930s art deco sort of? ). I don't finger 'em much so really don't care what material the fascia is sculpted from either....

And that's a total reasonable take on things. I saw a stat somewhere on here that Denon outsells Marantz 8 to 1 and I believe it. If you don't care about aesthetics, why pay the premium for the same thing? I feel the same way about NAD. Everything they make sounds exactly the same from top to bottom, so a purchase decision is really just about features and aesthetics.

 

[Cos]

I'm somewhat the opposite, don't mind a typical black box at all, it just gets tucked into a rack, even in the living room, and not in line of sight as I don't need to gaze at it but do like a full panel there when I want it from my seat....but really not a fan of the porthole (what decade is that, 1930s art deco sort of? ). I don't finger 'em much so really don't care what material the fascia is sculpted from either....

I think that is why I gave aesthetics more weight in my decision making process when I decided to build a modest 2-channel setup. It is a focal point of the room. That being said it makes sense that the 40n 30 have the upgraded faceplate to help justify some of the cost . The 40n weights more than the x4800h or the Cinema 50. I also love the look of the Anthem AMV70, but that is in my rack on a sidewall, so not prominently displayed.

According to the Marantz Website, the C50 and above in their new receiver line have metal faceplates. Only the C60 & C70 have the polycarbonate faceplate. I should have clarified my statement when I commented on the sides being the same, I meant the plastic (polycarbonate) that the OP commented on.