Waffling around on a tube Amp

[Push]

My current setup is a Rega Planar 3/yellow Exact cart, Rega Fono MM Mk3, Rega Brio, Monitor Audio Silver 300. I also use a cheapo WiiM Streamer for the rare times I stream (this is slated to be replaced with a Cambridge CXN V2 next year).

I've decided that my next step in building my home stereo outfit is going to be a tube amp. I had selected a Rogue Cronus Magnum III as a nice starting point, but I'm having trouble pulling the pin on a 5 grand Cdn unit when I'm just not sure if I'll enjoy it or not. I've listened to several tube amps over the last couple months, loved the sound, but none at home with my setup in my room.

I keep eyeing up a Willsenton R8, and I'm wondering if this unit would indeed give me a proper taste of tube amplification and allow me to decide whether I'm going further down that rabbit hole, or if I should be upgrading my turntable instead. I've tried to find direct comparisons online, but haven't had much luck. Anyone on here had a Willsenton and then switched to higher end unit like the Rogue or a Linn? Does the Willsenton really give good enough results to tell someone if they want tube amplification?

Thanks in advance for any opinions and advice.

Rod

 

[Mikado463]

You will get little love on this forum for tube amplifiers. A lot of the reasoning is good whereas some is not. For the record I enjoy good tubes glowing in the dark and while my current amplification is SS I do employ tubes in my line stage as well as my phono-pre.

As for Rogue, IMO they represent one of the best $$ values in tube products out there right now but I admit I'm somewhat biased as the owner of the company is a friend. FWIW I was using a pair of Mark's M-180's in a prior set up and loved them.

in todays world tube rolling is becoming more difficult and pricey given the Russian situation so you need to be aware of that as well

 

[Push]

You will get little love on this forum for tube amplifiers. A lot of the reasoning is good whereas some is not.

<snip>

in todays world tube rolling is becoming more difficult and pricey given the Russian situation so you need to be aware of that as well

Thanks for the response, and this line of reasoning is exactly why I'm considering jumping in with a Chinese tube amp first, versus the Rogue unit. Mostly, I'm just afraid that the Willsenton won't give me a true taste of tube sound. I wish I could audition one first, but its not possible.

 

[Push]

You will get little love on this forum for tube amplifiers.

Any recommendation of a forum of tube amp guys?

 

[Mikado463]

Any recommendation of a forum of tube amp guys?

try audiocircle or audiokarma, plenty of 'tube talk' over there

 

[j_garcia]

try audiocircle or audiokarma, plenty of 'tube talk' over there

A lot of other snake oil talk too though. I personally like tube amps smooth sound too, but the cost vs. rewards isn't as appealing when that money is likely much better spent on the speaker than the amp.

 

[TLS Guy]

My current setup is a Rega Planar 3/yellow Exact cart, Rega Fono MM Mk3, Rega Brio, Monitor Audio Silver 300. I also use a cheapo WiiM Streamer for the rare times I stream (this is slated to be replaced with a Cambridge CXN V2 next year).

I've decided that my next step in building my home stereo outfit is going to be a tube amp. I had selected a Rogue Cronus Magnum III as a nice starting point, but I'm having trouble pulling the pin on a 5 grand Cdn unit when I'm just not sure if I'll enjoy it or not. I've listened to several tube amps over the last couple months, loved the sound, but none at home with my setup in my room.

I keep eyeing up a Willsenton R8, and I'm wondering if this unit would indeed give me a proper taste of tube amplification and allow me to decide whether I'm going further down that rabbit hole, or if I should be upgrading my turntable instead. I've tried to find direct comparisons online, but haven't had much luck. Anyone on here had a Willsenton and then switched to higher end unit like the Rogue or a Linn? Does the Willsenton really give good enough results to tell someone if they want tube amplification?

Thanks in advance for any opinions and advice.

Rod

Keep waffling. Tube amps are museum pieces. The world has moved on to better amplification. If you don't like your sound, look at your speakers. I have heard Monitor Audio speakers, and they would be well down the list of any speakers I would want to live with. Don't waste money on tube amps, buy better speakers.

 

[fmw]

Tube amps have higher distortion and more limited bandwidth than solid state. I had a really nice one once from Audio Research. But alas, it provided nothing I couldn't get better from solid state so it went the way of the rest of my high end equipment. Beautiful piece of electronics with a half inch thick aluminum front panel. It added some warmth (temperature) to the listening room. But a silly thing to buy. I don't recommend tube amps of any sort.

 

[Mikado463]

A lot of other snake oil talk too though.

agreed, but the Op was asking for forums where discussion is plentiful and there are plenty of knowledgeable tube folk over there if you're willing to sort them out. I Know TLS feels they all belong in museums but what some folks fail to realize is that there is a 'hobby' aspect to this as well.

I personally like tube amps smooth sound too, but the cost vs. rewards isn't as appealing when that money is likely much better spent on the speaker than the amp.

as general statements go, I agree.

 

[Push]

While I appreciate the time you guys took to respond, that

Keep waffling. Tube amps are museum pieces. The world has moved on to better amplification. If you don't like your sound, look at your speakers. I have heard Monitor Audio speakers, and they would be well down the list of any speakers I would want to live with. Don't waste money on tube amps, buy better speakers.

I didn't really want to turn this into a tube vs SS thread, there are plenty of those out there. I was able to listen to a Rogue Cronus vs a Rega Brio in store, direct comparison, hooked to the very Silver 300s I bought, a few weeks ago. I found the Cronus sound stage and musicality preferable to my Brio by quite a long ways, however thats in store and with a Planar 6 turntable.

So either way, I'm going to end up with a tube amp to play with and see how it fits in my room, just curious if I can save a couple grand on the experiment and get "close enough" to the Rogue before I plop down 5Gs. I'll be upgrading my turntable long before I upgrade my speakers. I like my Silver 300s

 

[3db]

From a hobby perspective, Im also very curious about tube amps as well. I still use and love cassette.

I think the OP is best served with a Chinese unit until they decide if the sound appeals to them. I just don't know where to put one as all my racks are full.

 

[Mikado463]

While I appreciate the time you guys took to respond, that


I didn't really want to turn this into a tube vs SS thread, there are plenty of those out there. I was able to listen to a Rogue Cronus vs a Rega Brio in store, direct comparison, hooked to the very Silver 300s I bought, a few weeks ago. I found the Cronus sound stage and musicality preferable to my Brio by quite a long ways, however thats in store and with a Planar 6 turntable.

So either way, I'm going to end up with a tube amp to play with and see how it fits in my room, just curious if I can save a couple grand on the experiment and get "close enough" to the Rogue before I plop down 5Gs. I'll be upgrading my turntable long before I upgrade my speakers. I like my Silver 300s

Push, in the end, it's your money and your ears so enjoy the ride !

hell, I still run live steam engines in my back yard !

 

[3db]

Push, in the end, it's your money and your ears so enjoy the ride !

hell, I still run live steam engines in my back yard !

Would love to see some pics of your steam engines at work.

 

[j_garcia]

as general statements go, I agree.

Yeah, I am not saying there is no place for tube amps, they're just not for me. If you already have some very nice speakers, tubes won't harm anything. If it were a brand new 2ch system, and depending on the overall price, I'd typically try to invest most of the budget in the speakers with a reasonable amount for the power needs of those speakers. If you are talking tubes, you probably aren't talking cheap speakers or a budget system, so it depends. I heard a guy's 2ch rig that was ridiculous. $10k tube monobolocks feeding some very nice planar speakers and it sounded amazing. If you've got that money, why not? lol.

 

[mtrycrafts]

... Tube amps are museum pieces. ....

Could be a very nice and expensive paper weight as well or just a display on a pedestal lit up by the filaments.
Don't have to bother with crowds in a museum.

 

[TLS Guy]

While I appreciate the time you guys took to respond, that


I didn't really want to turn this into a tube vs SS thread, there are plenty of those out there. I was able to listen to a Rogue Cronus vs a Rega Brio in store, direct comparison, hooked to the very Silver 300s I bought, a few weeks ago. I found the Cronus sound stage and musicality preferable to my Brio by quite a long ways, however thats in store and with a Planar 6 turntable.

So either way, I'm going to end up with a tube amp to play with and see how it fits in my room, just curious if I can save a couple grand on the experiment and get "close enough" to the Rogue before I plop down 5Gs. I'll be upgrading my turntable long before I upgrade my speakers. I like my Silver 300s

There is science and engineering behind all this.

Your Brio amp is only 50 watts per channel and the minimum recommended for your speakers is 80 watts per channel

Now solid state amps do tend to clip harder than tube amps. So you need to size a solid state amp at a higher power than a tube amp. But the best solution is no clip.

The biggest draw back of a tube amp is that they have a high source impedance. This is because of the need for an output transformer and most of this is contributed be the secondary output transformer winding. The problem with this is that it makes these amps tend to follow the impedance curve of the speakers.

This is the impedance curve of yours.

Note the typical tuning peaks in the bass region. This is probably why the notion comes from that tube amps have a warmer sound, but it is an aberration.

Your speakers measure well, but measurements are not taken at power. Your speakers only have a one 4" midrange, which covers from 575 Hz to 3.5 KHz. So the speakers are power limited in a bandwidth where a lot of power is required. This is an issue with a lot of speakers, where the power bandwidth in that crucial power band is woefully under estimated.

That Rogue amp is a lot of money, and I suspect you could get better results at less cost from a well designed sold state amp in the 150 to 250 watts per channel range.

I do have one tube component and grew up with tubes. I still use my Quad 22 tube preamp I bought in 1966.

I call that right end of my system, my museum, which it is. I also have a stereo tube amp, but I don't use it.

 

[Push]

That Rogue amp is a lot of money, and I suspect you could get better results at less cost from a well designed sold state amp in the 150 to 250 watts per channel range.

Definitely not going to argue, suspect you're probably right, but I have to experiment I'm not a big measurments guy, but rather go by my ears, even when they're being fooled I've always figured that it didnt matter how I got to the sound, as long as I made it there.

 

[Mikado463]

Would love to see some pics of your steam engines at work.

I'll post up a couple in the 'Trains Thread'

 

[3db]

I'll post up a couple in the 'Trains Thread'

Thankyou

 

[Eppie]

Definitely not going to argue, suspect you're probably right, but I have to experiment I'm not a big measurements guy, but rather go by my ears, even when they're being fooled I've always figured that it didn't matter how I got to the sound, as long as I made it there.

We get a lot of people looking for the best bang for the buck, so it's rare to discuss a tube amp for 5 large. That's a big investment just to experiment. I would recommend starting with the Willsenton R8 which sells for under C$2k. If you ever watch Jay Iyagi on YouTube (he's in Toronto) the Willsenton was his top amp for 2021. You can then decide whether its worth stepping up to the Rogue from there.