Audio Components

[mattmusicman50]

I need to tell someone, I am CLUELESS, when it comes to components needed for an excellent system. I purchased a Marantz NR1200 2 channel receiver since most of my listening is music with some movies, and I did not think I would ever add a center channel speaker. I then purchased the Paradigm Founder 80f and the SVS SB-1000 pro. I am enjoy my setup and sound, but when I read things and see posts, it makes me wonder if I am missing something? Did I need a separate Integrated Amplifier instead of a tuner? Did I need to make sure I have a Class D Amplifier? Why do different brands make the sound different? Without continuing, I have no idea and I suppose it comes down to how much do I want to spend? Any suggestions, in simple terms, would be appreciated! Thanks for reading!

 

[isolar8001]

There is nothing wrong with what you just bought....in fact, its damn nice, super nice.
There is still a place in this world for a high quality two channel system. Your speakers are some of the best and your amp is just fine.
Don't fret over what might and could have been...believe me, that never ends.

 

[TLS Guy]

I need to tell someone, I am CLUELESS, when it comes to components needed for an excellent system. I purchased a Marantz NR1200 2 channel receiver since most of my listening is music with some movies, and I did not think I would ever add a center channel speaker. I then purchased the Paradigm Founder 80f and the SVS SB-1000 pro. I am enjoy my setup and sound, but when I read things and see posts, it makes me wonder if I am missing something? Did I need a separate Integrated Amplifier instead of a tuner? Did I need to make sure I have a Class D Amplifier? Why do different brands make the sound different? Without continuing, I have no idea and I suppose it comes down to how much do I want to spend? Any suggestions, in simple terms, would be appreciated! Thanks for reading!

To be honest, I never knew such product existed. Here we have a two channel AV receiver with HDMI and sensible specs. This is actually what most people need and ideal for most rooms and situations. I will be recommending that unit often.

 

[lovinthehd]

I need to tell someone, I am CLUELESS, when it comes to components needed for an excellent system. I purchased a Marantz NR1200 2 channel receiver since most of my listening is music with some movies, and I did not think I would ever add a center channel speaker. I then purchased the Paradigm Founder 80f and the SVS SB-1000 pro. I am enjoy my setup and sound, but when I read things and see posts, it makes me wonder if I am missing something? Did I need a separate Integrated Amplifier instead of a tuner? Did I need to make sure I have a Class D Amplifier? Why do different brands make the sound different? Without continuing, I have no idea and I suppose it comes down to how much do I want to spend? Any suggestions, in simple terms, would be appreciated! Thanks for reading!

Are you missing something with multich audio? Perhaps. That Marantz 1200 appears to lack bass management, which I'd consider a shortcoming compared to just using a Marantz avr instead (which would have the multich capabilities as well). I don't find much value in most 2ch integrated amps myself, or 2ch receivers for the most part these days due lack of modern feature sets.

Class D amps can be nice for efficiency/light weight. Different brands don't usually sound particularly different if they're made to certain spec guidelines (and most good audio components do this).

Budget can be key, but also your goals overall.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah, if I’m buying a receiver, it might as well be a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, etc.

The reason is because a MCH AVR can do 2CH, but a 2CH receiver cannot do Dolby ATMOS MCH. And MCH AVR usually has more features you want.

A lot of times you don’t know what your future holds in terms of application (2CH vs MCH). You might want 2CH today and 11CH next year,

Just because a receiver has less amps (2CH) doesn’t make it better or more “audiophile” in any way.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

I use an NR1200 in the living room with just 2 speakers. It's overpriced for what it does, but I bought mine a couple years ago when they were still pretty cheap. I had a Yamaha 5.1 but got annoyed because it would keep putting itself back into multichannel mode at random times when I had set it for 2 channel. Annoying as hell when it sends your dialogue to a center speaker that isn't there. I no longer have those problems.

The Marantz' biggest flaw is lack of bass management, so you'll have to cross over your sub pretty low, like at your speakers' F3 so you wont get a lot of overlap in bass frequencies.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yeah, if I’m buying a receiver, it might as well be a 5.1.2 or 5.1.4, etc.

The reason is because a MCH AVR can do 2CH, but a 2CH receiver cannot do Dolby ATMOS MCH. And MCH AVR usually has more features you want.

A lot of times you don’t know what your future holds in terms of application (2CH vs MCH). You might want 2CH today and 11CH next year,

Just because a receiver has less amps (2CH) doesn’t make it better or more “audiophile in any way.

It is very likely to be much more reliable, as it won't be over crammed with power amps, and a power supply undersized and stressed.

 

[TLS Guy]

I use an NR1200 in the living room with just 2 speakers. It's overpriced for what it does, but I bought mine a couple years ago when they were still pretty cheap. I had a Yamaha 5.1 but got annoyed because it would keep putting itself back into multichannel mode at random times when I had set it for 2 channel. Annoying as hell when it sends your dialogue to a center speaker that isn't there. I no longer have those problems.

The Marantz' biggest flaw is lack of bass management, so you'll have to cross over your sub pretty low, like at your speakers' F3 so you wont get a lot of overlap in bass frequencies.

Actually that is not true. It is often a very good idea to use LFE + main and set the crossover to 120 Hz, 150 Hz and sometime higher. In a small speaker BSC is usually inadequate in room. So giving the BSC a boost from the sub can be a very good idea. LFE + main is not used by members nearly often enough. Most speakers with small drivers are actually starved of power resources in that band, and helping them out with a higher sub crossover using LFE + main can be an excellent solution.

In a recent video Sigberg admitted their integrated sub can help out up to 250 Hz. I have found out that using the sub up to 150 Hz in my in wall system was just the trick. even though the small drivers were high power type, I have crossed all three speakers at 150 Hz now. Since the system is integrated that works. This has cleaned up the reproduction at power greatly. I have said for a long time that the sub to speakers crossover is a crossover that needs as much care as any other actually. So designing speakers subs and power is actually the best way to go. As active speakers become the norm, then it will become the norm to buy speakers and sub as a unit.

 

[flyboylr45]

Actually that is not true. It is often a very good idea to use LFE + main and set the crossover to 120 Hz, 150 Hz and sometime higher. In a small speaker BSC is usually inadequate in room. So giving the BSC a boost from the sub can be a very good idea. LFE + main is not used by members nearly often enough. Most speakers with small drivers are actually starved of power resources in that band, and helping them out with a higher sub crossover using LFE + main can be an excellent solution.

In a recent video Sigberg admitted their integrated sub can help out up to 250 Hz. I have found out that using the sub up to 150 Hz in my in wall system was just the trick. even though the small drivers were high power type, I have crossed all three speakers at 150 Hz now. Since the system is integrated that works. This has cleaned up the reproduction at power greatly. I have said for a long time that the sub to speakers crossover is a crossover that needs as much care as any other actually. So designing speakers subs and power is actually the best way to go. As active speakers become the norm, then it will become the norm to buy speakers and sub as a unit.

In agreement with you, even with my towers, RBH recommended the SV831 modules (3 8in drivers each) to be crossed at 120Hz. So all my speakers are crossed at 120HZ and all 6 subs take care of the load from there down.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

Actually that is not true. It is often a very good idea to use LFE + main and set the crossover to 120 Hz, 150 Hz and sometime higher. In a small speaker BSC is usually inadequate in room. So giving the BSC a boost from the sub can be a very good idea. LFE + main is not used by members nearly often enough. Most speakers with small drivers are actually starved of power resources in that band, and helping them out with a higher sub crossover using LFE + main can be an excellent solution.

In a recent video Sigberg admitted their integrated sub can help out up to 250 Hz. I have found out that using the sub up to 150 Hz in my in wall system was just the trick. even though the small drivers were high power type, I have crossed all three speakers at 150 Hz now. Since the system is integrated that works. This has cleaned up the reproduction at power greatly. I have said for a long time that the sub to speakers crossover is a crossover that needs as much care as any other actually. So designing speakers subs and power is actually the best way to go. As active speakers become the norm, then it will become the norm to buy speakers and sub as a unit.

The NR1200 doesn't high-pass the mains. They run full range even when the sub output is turned on.

 

[TLS Guy]

The NR1200 doesn't high-pass the mains. They run full range even when the sub output is turned on.

It is OK to not have bass management. Bass management is a generic crossover. In my theater the bass management on the pre/pro is not used at all.
I capture the sub output and especially the LFE channel, then active networks of my design do the management. Overlap, like you will experience is more often than not a good thing as long as the speakers are robust enough to handle it.

Overlapping is becoming much more common. Those highly touted Perlisten speakers have lots of overlap in their drivers by the crossover design.

Actually the receiver or AVP is NOT the ideal location for the crossover. That will be another advantage of active speakers, in getting us away from that design. All crossovers need to be custom to purpose for excellent results.

In my in wall I do cut the three speakers off, but that is to avoid multiple flat wall reflections.

In my 2.1 system I have subs away from the main speakers, that is not a good idea as you can't get a coherent phase response and it is all over the place at different seats. I have designed an integrated sub for that system, but have not built it yet. That is on the to do list. My wife wants to get rid of the two sub boxes anyway, and my new design takes up zero floor space.

 

[highfigh]

I use an NR1200 in the living room with just 2 speakers. It's overpriced for what it does, but I bought mine a couple years ago when they were still pretty cheap. I had a Yamaha 5.1 but got annoyed because it would keep putting itself back into multichannel mode at random times when I had set it for 2 channel. Annoying as hell when it sends your dialogue to a center speaker that isn't there. I no longer have those problems.

The Marantz' biggest flaw is lack of bass management, so you'll have to cross over your sub pretty low, like at your speakers' F3 so you wont get a lot of overlap in bass frequencies.

What part of 'slim' did you miss in the product description? How would they fit all of the other stuff in it?

 

[Kvn_Walker]

What part of 'slim' did you miss in the product description? How would they fit all of the other stuff in it?

What the hell are you talking about? Have you not seen the Marantz 1510 which is a 5.2 AVR in the exact same size chassis? Good lord people are dense.

 

[cpp]

I use an NR1200 in the living room with just 2 speakers. It's overpriced for what it does, but I bought mine a couple years ago when they were still pretty cheap. I had a Yamaha 5.1 but got annoyed because it would keep putting itself back into multichannel mode at random times when I had set it for 2 channel. Annoying as hell when it sends your dialogue to a center speaker that isn't there. I no longer have those problems.

The Marantz' biggest flaw is lack of bass management, so you'll have to cross over your sub pretty low, like at your speakers' F3 so you wont get a lot of overlap in bass frequencies.

There is a little bass adjustments the user can make, but nothing like the other units. This might be perfect for my daughter,

Well the NR1200 does have a bass adjustment knob on the front panel along with a treble adjustment knob. Hence the old 'Tone Control" .

Plus one can adjust another way:

Adjusting the tone (Tone) page 96 in the manual.
Adjusts the tonal quality of the sound.
1 Press OPTION.
An option menu screen is displayed.
0 When the input source is “HEOS Music”, an option menu for
online music is displayed. Select “Receiver Options...”, then press
ENTER.
2 Use ui to select “Tone”, then press ENTER.
The “Tone” screen is displayed.
3 Select the sound range to be adjusted.
Bass: Adjust bass.
Treble: Adjust treble.
4 Use o p to adjust the tone, then press ENTER.
-6 dB – +6 dB (Default : 0 dB)
0 “Tone” settings are stored for each input source.
0 This cannot be set when the sound mode is set to “Direct” or “Pure Direct”.
0 You cannot set this when no audio signal is input or in the menu “HDMI Audio Out”
is set to “TV”. (v p. 125)
0 You can also adjust the tone by turning the BASS and TREBLE knobs on the main
unit.


Adjust the subwoofer output Page 95:


(Subwoofer)
Adjusts the subwoofer channel volume.
1 Press OPTION.
An option menu screen is displayed.
0 When the input source is “HEOS Music”, an option menu for
online music is displayed. Select “Receiver Options...”, then press
ENTER.
2 Use ui to select “Subwoofer”, then press ENTER.
The “Subwoofer” screen is displayed.
3 Use o p to turn subwoofer output on and off.
On
(Default): The subwoofer is used.
Off: The subwoofer is not used.
4 Select “On” in step 3 and press i to adjust the
subwoofer channel volume.
-12.0 dB – +12.0 dB (Default : 0.0 dB)
0 “Subwoofer” setting is stored for each input source.
0 You cannot set this when “Subwoofer” - “Subwoofer” is set to “No”. (v p. 137)
0 You cannot set this when no audio signal is input or in the menu “HDMI Audio Out”
is set to “TV”. (v p. 125)

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

It is very likely to be much more reliable, as it won't be over crammed with power amps, and a power supply undersized and stressed.

But IN GENERAL, the 2CH component will be crammed inside a much smaller slim chassis compared to a bigger AVR.

And when you only use 2Ch, the AVR will also use 2Ch, not all 11Ch of amps stressing out. IOW, heat production will be a lot more when you use 11Ch than when you use 2CH.

The main factor is overall heat production/elimination. What's more likely to be more reliable? An AVR that doesn't get very hot or a 2CH Receiver that produces a lot more heat inside a much smaller chassis?

If the 2CH receiver and MCH AVR both operate at the same cool temp, then it's a toss up.

And the other important factor is the unknown future application. Just as the OP has indicated, what happens when you have a 2Ch receiver and then later want 5.1 or 5.1.2? Buy a new receiver is what happens.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

In agreement with you, even with my towers, RBH recommended the SV831 modules (3 8in drivers each) to be crossed at 120Hz. So all my speakers are crossed at 120HZ and all 6 subs take care of the load from there down.

Yeah, I've ALWAYS used XO of 120-150Hz with very tower I've ever owned.

 

[highfigh]

What the hell are you talking about? Have you not seen the Marantz 1510 which is a 5.2 AVR in the exact same size chassis? Good lord people are dense.

I wasn't commenting on the 1510, you wrote "I use an NR1200 in the living room with just 2 speakers", mentioned the thinks Marantz lacks and never wrote anything about the 1510. If you meant to refer to a different model, you should have done it in that post.

And I'm the dense one?

 

[MrBoat]

My subs are currently crossed at 40hz with a slight overlap via dsp. The 12" Eminence woofers are just too nice to let idle on mid-range. The mid-bass and middle sub-bass from the 12s is something to behold. It was the effect I was missing from more modern, 'space saving' designs.

I can never go back.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah, I've ALWAYS used XO of 120-150Hz with very tower I've ever owned.

Are you overlapping the crossover frequency?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Are you overlapping the crossover frequency?

The AVP’s Subwoofer/LFE output Crossover is set to 120-150Hz. The AVP’s speakers are set to Small.