LP Gear sucks.

[Audiophile Heretic]

I bought an ATN3600W 3 mil stylus from LP Gear so I could play 78 RPM shellac records with an Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge. The ATN3600W stylus was visibly poorly molded and didn't fit my cartridge well. I sent pictures of the stylus next to the original Audio-Technica stylus and requested LP Gear either replace the defective stylus or send me a refund of the purchase price. LP Gear said that the stylus was not defective because no one has ever reported a defective stylus, but offered me a refund less a restocking fee if I returned the stylus. I complained that they shouldn't charge a restocking fee for a defective product. I returned the stylus but have not received any refund.

Does anyone know of an honest source for a Pfanstiehl 4211-D3 3 mil stylus that fits Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge?

 

[Eppie]

I bought an ATN3600W 3 mil stylus from LP Gear so I could play 78 RPM shellac records with an Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge. The ATN3600W stylus was visibly poorly molded and didn't fit my cartridge well. I sent pictures of the stylus next to the original Audio-Technica stylus and requested LP Gear either replace the defective stylus or send me a refund of the purchase price. LP Gear said that the stylus was not defective because no one has ever reported a defective stylus, but offered me a refund less a restocking fee if I returned the stylus. I complained that they shouldn't charge a restocking fee for a defective product. I returned the stylus but have not received any refund.

Does anyone know of an honest source for a Pfanstiehl 4211-D3 3 mil stylus that fits Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge?

LP Gear would have been my first option as well. I did find the same stylus on Voice of Music which appears to be based in Michigan (V-M Audio Enthusiasts). They deal in vintage gear and have some favourable mentions on the web, but the posts I found were old.

 

[TLS Guy]

I bought an ATN3600W 3 mil stylus from LP Gear so I could play 78 RPM shellac records with an Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge. The ATN3600W stylus was visibly poorly molded and didn't fit my cartridge well. I sent pictures of the stylus next to the original Audio-Technica stylus and requested LP Gear either replace the defective stylus or send me a refund of the purchase price. LP Gear said that the stylus was not defective because no one has ever reported a defective stylus, but offered me a refund less a restocking fee if I returned the stylus. I complained that they shouldn't charge a restocking fee for a defective product. I returned the stylus but have not received any refund.

Does anyone know of an honest source for a Pfanstiehl 4211-D3 3 mil stylus that fits Audio-Technica AT3600L cartridge?

If you are going to play 78 shellac discs then you need a preamp with the correct equalization codes, which is different among labels.
They did not agree on an equalization standard for 78 RPM records until 1954, right at the end o the 78 RPM era. Thank goodness at the outset the RIAA curve was set for LPs!

Another issue, that can be a problem is the the stylus radius was not settled either. So the extreme 78 enthusiasts have cartridges of various radii. The speed was not completely settled either, and that is why back then some speed control was usually added.

That also meant that back in those days, a lot of cartridges slipped on and off to be able to change them instantly. That is why the Decca ffss was designed that way. So you could not only change quickly form 78 to LP, but if you were an obsessional collector you could have cartridges with a range of stylus radii.

LP Head.

The preamp is a Quad 22 tube preamp I bought in 1966.

78 Head.

Anyone miss those days? Thought not!

 

[Audiophile Heretic]

If you are going to play 78 shellac discs then you need a preamp with the correct equalization codes

Thanks for the technical information.

I don't intend to become an intense 78 RPM shellac record collector. I just want to be able to play a couple of records that I was given. I don't expect the sound to be high fidelity. I am doing this for the novelty.

The two records I have are from about 1950 and about 1916. The old one is slightly larger than the newer one.

Isn't stylus radius much more important than equalization or speed? Doesn't the playback stylus radius have to be similar to the cutting stylus radius? By how much did stylus radius vary around 3 mil compared to an approximately 1 mil microgroove stylus?

By how much did the equalization vary? Wouldn't it be possible to simply compensate with tone controls if absolute accuracy is not an issue? What are equalization "codes" and how do they relate to equalization time constants?

The technical aspects of 78 RPM records do not change the fact that LP Gear has poor customer service and stole my money.

 

[TLS Guy]

Thanks for the technical information.

I don't intend to become an intense 78 RPM shellac record collector. I just want to be able to play a couple of records that I was given. I don't expect the sound to be high fidelity. I am doing this for the novelty.

The two records I have are from about 1950 and about 1916.

Isn't stylus radius much more important than equalization or speed? Doesn't the playback stylus radius have to be similar to the cutting stylus radius? By how much did stylus radius vary around 3 mil compared to an approximately 1 mil microgroove stylus?

By how much did the equalization vary? Wouldn't it be possible to simply compensate with tone controls if absolute accuracy is not an issue? What are equalization "codes" and how do they relate to equalization time constants?

The technical aspects of 78 RPM records do not change the fact that LP Gear has poor customer service and stole my money.

Yes, the stylus radius is very important. If you use and LP stylus the tip goes to the bottom of the groove and ruins disc and stylus, so you do need a 78 RPM stylus.

The 1950 disc should play OK. The 1916 disc is prior to electric recording and so is a purely acoustic recording. The artists would have sat under the mouth of a huge horn, and the sound waves drove the needle of the wax master cutting lathe. Then the mother and and stamper were prepared from that. That disc will be faint and distant, and probably be more noise than program. The shellac discs then were all played either with steel needles, which you changed after each disc playing, or a fiber needle that you sharpened on devices like this.

Here is data on some 78 RPM groove sizes. You can see one outlier there, but most of the majors were close.

Here is further information for you.

LP gear should refund your money. The problem is there are all kinds of secondary manufacturers of varying quality. As I understand it, AT do not make those 78 RPM styli, so I am not surprised, some just "fit where they touch".

When I was four years old, my father gave me a an acoustical HMV gramophone made by a subsidiary of HMV in India. He brought it back from India after the WW II.
It took all my strength to wind the spring. I had a fiber needle sharpener similar to the one above. I had tins of steel needles, and uses to look at the groove and estimate the correct size. Age 7 I graduated to a pre-WW II HMV radio gram, so no more spring winding. However I quickly started to experiment with external speakers and in no time I was going full "Monty" building speaker enclosures and tube amps. I was addicted for after that and have never stopped.

 

[Audiophile Heretic]

LP Gear would have been my first option as well. I did find the same stylus on Voice of Music which appears to be based in Michigan (V-M Audio Enthusiasts). They deal in vintage gear and have some favourable mentions on the web, but the posts I found were old.

I bought a Pfanstiehl 4211-D3 3 mil diamond tip stylus from V-M Audio Enthusiasts aka Voice of Music and it works great. I was able to hear my 78 rpm shellac records. The Pfanstiehl stylus appears to be much better construction than the LP Gear. The plastic seems to be similar density to the original Audio Technica stylus, and the cantilever is aluminum rather than carbon fiber, like the stylus on most more expensive cartridges.

I recommend V-M Audio Enthusiasts aka Voice of Music.

 

[Audiophile Heretic]

TLS Guy: Thanks for the inspiration. I spent many days researching pre-RIAA phonograph record equalization. I have found many references and have taken many notes. I feel I can justify claiming that I am now an expert in my social groups who care little about antique audio media and consider me a lunatic.

I was born after shellac records became obsolete. Vinyl records were popular when I was a child. I was a teenager when cassette audio tapes became popular but before video cassettes, and a young man when CDs were introduced. I remember a friend who had a collection of 8 track tapes and an under-dash car player. Another friend of mine had a very nice open-reel tape deck. I have owned some nice turntables and phono cartridges and many vinyl records but got rid of them all when new vinyl records became nearly impossible to get, which is probably acceptable because many of my records had been played on record players with piezo-electric cartridges before I knew what a quality turntable and magnetic phono cartridge was.

My father was an auto mechanic with a hearing loss from serving as an artillery crew chief during the Korean War. He did not understand my fascination with high fidelity, but came to accept it when I became an adult.

My wife has been somewhat annoyed by the time I have spent in the pursuit of understanding.

 

[TLS Guy]

TLS Guy: Thanks for the inspiration. I spent many days researching pre-RIAA phonograph record equalization. I have found many references and have taken many notes. I feel I can justify claiming that I am now an expert in my social groups who care little about antique audio media and consider me a lunatic.

I was born after shellac records became obsolete. Vinyl records were popular when I was a child. I was a teenager when cassette audio tapes became popular but before video cassettes, and a young man when CDs were introduced. I remember a friend who had a collection of 8 track tapes and an under-dash car player. Another friend of mine had a very nice open-reel tape deck. I have owned some nice turntables and phono cartridges and many vinyl records but got rid of them all when new vinyl records became nearly impossible to get, which is probably acceptable because many of my records had been played on record players with piezo-electric cartridges before I knew what a quality turntable and magnetic phono cartridge was.

My father was an auto mechanic with a hearing loss from serving as an artillery crew chief during the Korean War. He did not understand my fascination with high fidelity, but came to accept it when I became an adult.

My wife has been somewhat annoyed by the time I have spent in the pursuit of understanding.

Tell your wife, it is preferable to finding you in bed with a younger woman!

 

[lovinthehd]

If LP Gear sucks then your options are becoming quite limited these days if you want to continue with this relatively dead format.

 

[Eppie]

I bought a Pfanstiehl 4211-D3 3 mil diamond tip stylus from V-M Audio Enthusiasts aka Voice of Music and it works great. I was able to hear my 78 rpm shellac records. The Pfanstiehl stylus appears to be much better construction than the LP Gear. The plastic seems to be similar density to the original Audio Technica stylus, and the cantilever is aluminum rather than carbon fiber, like the stylus on most more expensive cartridges.

I recommend V-M Audio Enthusiasts aka Voice of Music.

Glad to hear that it worked out for you.