Avr external fan needed or not?

[Kingnoob]

I was wondering is there any benefit to these or only if your avr is actually overheating???
What’s about older models…

 

[PENG]

I was wondering is there any benefit to these or only if your avr is actually overheating???
What’s about older models…

Edit: Comments below were in reference to the AVR's own internal fans only.

It is matter of size, weight and ultimately, cost. In order to keep cost down, manufacturers will feel they need those fans to a) minimize warranty costs and b) maximize reliability and longevity to the consumers.

I could be a win win thing if they increase the cost just slightly to implement a more optimized temperature controlled circuitry and use quieter fans.

Unfortunately marketing and accounting departs rule, so the design and production department typically could only do their balancing act and choose either:

- use a low cost fan with a higher risk temperature setpoint that will not trigger the fan on until the unit is at risk.

- use a higher cost/quality fan that is quieter and trigger the fan on at lower temperature to further minimize warranty cost and provide better reliability/longevity to their owners.

- other combinations that they deem to be the best compromise, such as including the use of lower bias schemes that may compromise sound quality (example, lower bias could/may increase the chance of audible crossover distortions).

What they don't prefer to do is to skip the fans, but to use more efficient power supplies and better heat sinks that would typically result in larger enclosures, and much heavier products that would inevitably cost much more.

 

[j_garcia]

I think a fan would be appropriate if you have a confined space where the AVR isn't getting adequate air space. Otherwise, I don't see a reason to have one. More or less, if you have space, you probably don't need it. I personally have never had an AVR, Integrated or amp shut down due to heat.

 

[Kingnoob]

I think a fan would be appropriate if you have a confined space where the AVR isn't getting adequate air space. Otherwise, I don't see a reason to have one. More or less, if you have space, you probably don't need it. I personally have never had an AVR, Integrated or amp shut down due to heat.

Yeah I’ve had cable boxes shut down more often, I’ve had the avr & tv shut itself off a few times but more likely due to aging parts then overheat. And it’s pretty rare, fronts x over at 80hz also. Do I need more air space ?

 

[PENG]

I thought the OP referred to the internal fans, not external ones. For external ones, I agree with j_garcia.

 

[Kingnoob]

I thought the OP referred to the internal fans, not external ones. For external ones, I agree with j_garcia.

Oops yeah I didn’t expect that mishap, avr have heat sinks and fans inside it but I’m talking about external fans. I fixed the title !

 

[PENG]

Oops yeah I didn’t expect that mishap, avr have heat sinks and fans inside it but I’m talking about external fans. I fixed the title !

Thank you, and I edited mine accordingly.

 

[Kingnoob]

Thank you, and I edited mine accordingly.

k
I had one of those for my laptop and it sucked tons of dust into it . although laptop power port broke I can’t fix it, dust
didn’t break it.
So do avr versions work better or the same?? Do any actual electronics need external fans?
Or are they a gimmick,??

 

[Bucknekked]

I was wondering is there any benefit to these or only if your avr is actually overheating???
What’s about older models…

Need verses want verses do they work?

I would say there is probably no NEED for an external AVR cooling fan in most situations.
You may want one just because its not a bad idea to exhaust heat away from electronics you wish to last a long time. When I bought my newest AVR, I decided I wanted it to live a long comfortable life so I bought an external cooling gizmo for it. It is practically invisible as its made to sit right on top of the AVR and blend in.
Its silent. It turns itself on and off when it senses heat above a certain temperature and it sucks the heat away from the AVR.

Do I need it ? Nope. Do I like it ? Yes I do.
AC Infinity AIRCOM S9,. Wonderful little device.

 

[PENG]

Need verses want verses do they work?

I would say there is probably no NEED for an external AVR cooling fan in most situations.
You may want one just because its not a bad idea to exhaust heat away from electronics you wish to last a long time. When I bought my newest AVR, I decided I wanted it to live a long comfortable life so I bought an external cooling gizmo for it. It is practically invisible as its made to sit right on top of the AVR and blend in.
Its silent. It turns itself on and off when it senses heat above a certain temperature and it sucks the heat away from the AVR.

Do I need it ? Nope. Do I like it ? Yes I do.
AC Infinity AIRCOM S9,. Wonderful little device.

View attachment 59509

Great point about need vs want, like, preferred etc., a $10-$20 (in the cheapest form) external fan definitely would buy more years of reliable operation and potentially better audio performance in marginal cases (such as barely adequate natural ventilation), especially for those who listen loud enough and have speakers that would push the amp closer to its output limit.

 

[j_garcia]

I think most AVRs go out of date feature wise before they will die of heat in a typical setup.

In your case, I would try to leave a little gap on either side, but above you have enough room because the back is open. No worries I'd say.

 

[Kingnoob]

I think most AVRs go out of date feature wise before they will die of heat in a typical setup.

In your case, I would try to leave a little gap on either side, but above you have enough room because the back is open. No worries I'd say.

I been checking it lately had no overheating, although a couple years ago it did because I forgot to fix the 40hz setting after odyssey. And double bass I accidentally used also, until I realized it causes horrible acoustic effects and stuff . But so far I’ve had this avr for around 9-10 years I think and it’s a 11-12 year old model. Hdmi board in many failed actually in similar onkyos ? I sent mine in once Under warranty no issues since .
Sub is handling the bass .

Todays avr even some flagships have smaller heat sinks than the 818. Too keep the weight down, and or lower the value consumers get. Again I could be wrong but there getting smaller amps and stuff.

 

[Trell]

I’ve had fans on top of my Denon AVR for years to increase the lifetime of it by reducing the heat inside it.

Not only as there amplifiers but also a lot of other electronics generating heat.

 

[PENG]

I been checking it lately had no overheating, although a couple years ago it did because I forgot to fix the 40hz setting after odyssey. And double bass I accidentally used also, until I realized it causes horrible acoustic effects and stuff . But so far I’ve had this avr for around 9-10 years I think and it’s a 11-12 year old model. Hdmi board in many failed actually in similar onkyos ? I sent mine in once Under warranty no issues since .
Sub is handling the bass .

Todays avr even some flagships have smaller heat sinks than the 818. Too keep the weight down, and or lower the value consumers get. Again I could be wrong but there getting smaller amps and stuff.

The newer one are not getting smaller amps but more amps such as 9 vs the older model's 7 amps.

 

[ban25]

It's a gimmick for most all use-cases. Electronic components are rated to a specified lifetime in operating hours at a given max temperature. For an electrolytic capacitor, the rated temperature is generally 105C, and you will see a rating for a number of operating hours (say 5000, for example). That lifetime then halves or doubles +/- every 10C. So a capacitor rated to 5000 hours at 105C will last 10000 hours at 95C. The AVRs I've seen tend to max out in the 80s, so even at 85C, that's 20,000 hours or over two years of 24/7 continuous operation. At a more realistic 4 hours/day of operation, that's over 13 years!

As the poster above noted, your AVR is going to be long obsolete before 13 years.

Also note that fans are noisy. If you're running an external cooler in the same room with you, note that AC Infinity quotes a noise level of 36 dBA. High quality 140mm Noctua fans (which AC Infinity *does not* use) specify 19 dBA. If you are concerned about sound quality or the SINAD of your gear, definitely do not invest in external cooling, unless all of your equipment is separated from the listening room. The only scenario where one would consider investing in external cooling is if you intend to put the AVR into a rack or closet packed with other equipment and no ventilation.

 

[Trell]

It's a gimmick for most all use-cases. Electronic components are rated to a specified lifetime in operating hours at a given max temperature. For an electrolytic capacitor, the rated temperature is generally 105C, and you will see a rating for a number of operating hours (say 5000, for example). That lifetime then halves or doubles +/- every 10C. So a capacitor rated to 5000 hours at 105C will last 10000 hours at 95C. The AVRs I've seen tend to max out in the 80s, so even at 85C, that's 20,000 hours or over two years of 24/7 continuous operation. At a more realistic 4 hours/day of operation, that's over 13 years!

Not sure that cap rating of 105C is that common in an AVR. For instance, my 2015 year model Denon AVR-X4200W uses large caps rated at 85C and I don't know the rated life. It does get toasty inside an AVR.

As the poster above noted, your AVR is going to be long obsolete before 13 years.

Also note that fans are noisy. If you're running an external cooler in the same room with you, note that AC Infinity quotes a noise level of 36 dBA. High quality 140mm Noctua fans (which AC Infinity *does not* use) specify 19 dBA. If you are concerned about sound quality or the SINAD of your gear, definitely do not invest in external cooling, unless all of your equipment is separated from the listening room. The only scenario where one would consider investing in external cooling is if you intend to put the AVR into a rack or closet packed with other equipment and no ventilation.

For the Noctua fans that noise spec is at full speed but I use fan controller on my Noctua (120mm) fans, and they are at fairly low speed and inaudible from my listening position.

 

[PENG]

Not sure that cap rating of 105C is that common in an AVR. For instance, my 2015 year model Denon AVR-X4200W uses large caps rated at 85C and I don't know the rated life. It does get toasty inside an AVR.

For the Noctua fans that noise spec is at full speed but I use fan controller on my Noctua (120mm) fans, and they are at fairly low speed and inaudible from my listening position.

Obviously ban25 is right about what he stated, but I also agree with you, that quiet external fans are in many cases, still a good thing to use even if only used purely as extra insurance. Also, unlike high temperature spikes, while operating closer to the devices limit should not result in premature failures, it could over time, degrade performance. I would agree an AVR would be obsolete within 10 or even 5 years, keeping operating temperature 5 to 10 degrees lower might still be helpful in prolonging its peak performance life.

I traded in my AVR-X4400H recently and I felt good for whoever bought it from the dealer, knowing that from day one (for 5 years) I have had two infinity fans on top keeping the unit cool.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There is one indication for using USB fans - to prevent your AVR from shutting down due to heat.

In my previous house where the AVR probably wasn’t as well ventilated, especially in the summer, the AVR would shut down after some time while we were singing karaoke.

Then I added dual 120mm USB fans from Amazon. And the AVR never shut down again for karaoke.

 

[Kingnoob]

There is one indication for using USB fans - to prevent your AVR from shutting down due to heat.

In my previous house where the AVR probably wasn’t as well ventilated, especially in the summer, the AVR would shut down after some time while we were singing karaoke.

Then I added dual 120mm USB fans from Amazon. And the AVR never shut down again for karaoke.

during music it sometimes gets hot.
which model fans?
They don’t suck room dust into the avr right like laptop coolmats do?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

during music it sometimes gets hot.
which model fans?
They don’t suck room dust into the avr right like laptop coolmats do?

I don’t remember the fan models from Amazon that I bought for about $20 for 2 fans.

They probably suck dust into the AVR and blow dust out of the AVR. But even without the fans, dust will get inside the AVR, amps, PC, etc.

All I can say is that the fans do work to lower the internal AVR heat and prevent the AVR from shutting down during my karaoke.