Is using Bluetooth aptx good enough for Spotify or should I get streamer ?

[Davvy]

So yesterday I got delivered my new Rotel A14 MKII a (Integrated amplifier with built-in DAC and Bluetooth) but no WI-FI which sucks, I've not hooked it up yet by the way. At first I thought Bluetooth and even better with aptx it will great. But after watching videos and doing some research BT even with aptx is still not really optimal. WI-FI which is always connected is nice compared to BT, having to hit the BT button on the Rotel remote every time I want to connect could get old I guess. The Bluesound NODE is very suggested and was think of getting it if I do need one but $500 dam. But I've spent a lot already on a nice amp and speakers only to use Bluetooth and not have the best possible audio quality seems like a bad choice on my part. Am I worrying for nothing and Bluetooth will be great and WI-FI is not necessary ?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

WiFi is just wireless networking. It by itself does not carry audio. Chromecast, DLNA, and Airplay are protocols that can carry audio over WiFi.
Any Bluetooth protocol, including AptX and AptX HD, are LOSSY compression, whereas Chromecast, AirPlay, and DLNA are lossless.
You could get Apple TV, Roku, or Nvidia Shield TV (not necessarily a pro model) and get Airplay, Chromecast, and DLNA (in the latter). Either option costs less than $500. Airplay can do full lossless CD quality, whereas Chromecast can carry Hi-Res audio up to 24bit/96khz

Lossless Audio Formats vs Lossy Audio Formats - A Complete Guide

We have put together the ultimate guide to lossless audio formats vs lossy audio to help you master audio compression! Read to learn more!

www.musicgateway.com

 

[3db]

So yesterday I got delivered my new Rotel A14 MKII a (Integrated amplifier with built-in DAC and Bluetooth) but no WI-FI which sucks, I've not hooked it up yet by the way. At first I thought Bluetooth and even better with aptx it will great. But after watching videos and doing some research BT even with aptx is still not really optimal. WI-FI which is always connected is nice compared to BT, having to hit the BT button on the Rotel remote every time I want to connect could get old I guess. The Bluesound NODE is very suggested and was think of getting it if I do need one but $500 dam. But I've spent a lot already on a nice amp and speakers only to use Bluetooth and not have the best possible audio quality seems like a bad choice on my part. Am I worrying for nothing and Bluetooth will be great and WI-FI is not necessary ?

I have bluetoothed to my Yamaha AVRs and soundbars and I really dont hear anything missing from the music. I stream stored music on my Samsung tablet to the above mentioned devices.

I have also blue toothed to an older version of a Node2 and again, very happy with the sound quality. I dont think you can buy a device that offers more streaming services than a node2 (i) but it us costly

 

[Davvy]

"WiFi is just wireless networking. It by itself does not carry audio."

You know as soon as I read that, I knew that the music services are in contact with my network vs Bluetooth is only my phone. But with that said though I did read the link you provided. As a Spotify Premium user I can get 320kbps on mobile which is enough for me. As long as BT aptx can stream that 320kbps which what I've seen so far it can easily.

 

[Davvy]

I have bluetoothed to my Yamaha AVRs and soundbars and I really dont hear anything missing from the music. I stream stored music on my Samsung tablet to the above mentioned devices.

I have also blue toothed to an older version of a Node2 and again, very happy with the sound quality. I dont think you can buy a device that offers more streaming services than a node2 (i) but it us costly

Yeah but did you do a A-B test though ? Like switching from BT to a cable/WI-FI connection when listening to music ?

 

[3db]

Yeah but did you do a A-B test though ? Like switching from BT to a cable/WI-FI connection when listening to music ?

No I havent nor am I setup too for a blind ABX text. Still, I find nothing missing from the sound as I play music from different mediums.

 

[Davvy]

Found this:

"Bluetooth offers only a limited bandwidth for streams. Therefore audio files are converted for transmission into the lossy codec SDC. This is at the expense of sound quality. If you want to stream with better quality via Bluetooth, you should make sure that the format aptX is supported. Depending on the version, this transmits the audio stream with little or no data loss. It is important that both the loudspeakers and the playback device support Bluetooth aptX. Because Wi-Fi achieves a much higher bandwidth than Bluetooth, formats with high data volumes can also be transmitted in the home network. If you want to transmit losslessly or surround formats, you must make sure that the hardware and streaming protocols support them."

I personally wouldn't use BT unless you got BT aptx at least.


Now this is the information I wanted to know, wish I didn't make this thread LOL. But WI-FI is still practical though and I might still get a streamer like the Bluesound NODE.

I tried aptX Lossless Bluetooth – and yes, we can all look forward to it (with caution)

A step in the right direction for Bluetooth

www.whathifi.com

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

"WiFi is just wireless networking. It by itself does not carry audio."

You know as soon as I read that, I knew that the music services are in contact with my network vs Bluetooth is only my phone. But with that said though I did read the link you provided. As a Spotify Premium user I can get 320kbps on mobile which is enough for me. As long as BT aptx can stream that 320kbps which what I've seen so far it can easily.

the phone could stream either bt or wifi. Spotify bitrate isn't the same as AptX bitrate. It also re-compresses audio a second time which causes some additional audio bit loss.
That said, as 3db said, it could sound decent enough depending on your speakers and hearing.

 

[Davvy]

the phone could stream either bt or wifi. Spotify bitrate isn't the same as AptX bitrate. It also re-compresses audio a second time which causes some additional audio bit loss.
That said, as 3db said, it could sound decent enough depending on your speakers and hearing.

So over WI-FI nothing would get re-compressed again right, so it would be the same stream as when Spotify sent it the first time right ?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

So over WI-FI nothing would get re-compressed again right, so it would be the same stream as when Spotify sent it the first time right ?

correct.

 

[Davvy]

But Bluetooth aptx is still pretty impressive and a pretty good upgrade for BT users who can use option.


Probably my last question do streamers like the Bluesound Node do they keep the amps original sound sig intact though, basically I'm asking do streamer(s) change or add anything to the original sound from the amp ? Thanks

 

[lovinthehd]

"WiFi is just wireless networking. It by itself does not carry audio."

You know as soon as I read that, I knew that the music services are in contact with my network vs Bluetooth is only my phone. But with that said though I did read the link you provided. As a Spotify Premium user I can get 320kbps on mobile which is enough for me. As long as BT aptx can stream that 320kbps which what I've seen so far it can easily.

Yes, you're getting the full stream for Spotify via the internet (the phone only acting as a remote of sorts)....if you have a way to use that stream. You have your network connected to the integrated amp?

 

[eagleray]

So yesterday I got delivered my new Rotel A14 MKII a (Integrated amplifier with built-in DAC and Bluetooth) but no WI-FI which sucks, I've not hooked it up yet by the way. At first I thought Bluetooth and even better with aptx it will great. But after watching videos and doing some research BT even with aptx is still not really optimal. WI-FI which is always connected is nice compared to BT, having to hit the BT button on the Rotel remote every time I want to connect could get old I guess. The Bluesound NODE is very suggested and was think of getting it if I do need one but $500 dam. But I've spent a lot already on a nice amp and speakers only to use Bluetooth and not have the best possible audio quality seems like a bad choice on my part. Am I worrying for nothing and Bluetooth will be great and WI-FI is not necessary for driveway coating removal Brisbane?

My current system is Qobuz to an iPad Air (using it's AAC codec) to Sony WF-1000xm4 earbuds. Would replacing the iPad with a music streamer make much of a difference in your opinion? The Sony earbuds only support AAC not aptX so are a good pairing with my iPad. But I'm open to getting earbuds that support aptX if that and a streamer supporting aptX would really help. I've been looking at the Bluesound Node with Shure Aonic Free earbuds for aptX. Opinions?

 

[Davvy]

My current system is Qobuz to an iPad Air (using it's AAC codec) to Sony WF-1000xm4 earbuds. Would replacing the iPad with a music streamer make much of a difference in your opinion? The Sony earbuds only support AAC not aptX so are a good pairing with my iPad. But I'm open to getting earbuds that support aptX if that and a streamer supporting aptX would really help. I've been looking at the Bluesound Node with Shure Aonic Free earbuds for aptX. Opinions?

What Are Bluetooth Codecs? A Guide to Everything From AAC to SBC

We demystify the most common Bluetooth codecs and explain why they matter for audio quality.

www.pcmag.com

Check that link out it's got good info. I've returned the Rotel, I now feel like it's a deal breaker paying $1600 for in-amp and there's no WIFI. But it was suggested to me to get a streamer like Bluesound Node which has WiFi and to use it with the Rotel but that thing costs $500, screw that. I'm not paying for something that should have been included in the first place in the Rotel.

 

[BMXTRIX]

What Are Bluetooth Codecs? A Guide to Everything From AAC to SBC

We demystify the most common Bluetooth codecs and explain why they matter for audio quality.

www.pcmag.com

Check that link out it's got good info. I've returned the Rotel, I now feel like it's a deal breaker paying $1600 for in-amp and there's no WIFI. But it was suggested to me to get a streamer like Bluesound Node which has WiFi and to use it with the Rotel but that thing costs $500, screw that. I'm not paying for something that should have been included in the first place in the Rotel.

No, that's not how streamers work.

A proper streaming device needs years and years and YEARS of support. Spotify changes, Pandora changes, XM changes, etc. All these different streaming platforms constantly change and require CONSTANT maintenance and support from the manufacturer. Your Rotel unit is VERY good, but they are a audio company. They aren't a streaming company. Bluesound is a STREAMING company, far more than an audio company. Long after the Bluesound Node is outdated and worthless, the Rotel would still sound amazing.

This is the same bad (yes bad) decision making that people have when they say things like "My smart TV sucks! The Netflix and Amazon apps are so slow!". A smart TV isn't smart. They use complete crap microchips for the streaming functions. A $100 Roku Ultra kicks the crap out of what is built into any 'smart' television!

Same is true here. If you want a GREAT streaming experience from Pandora, Spotify, or others, then get a great stand alone streaming appliance. Yes, Yamaha and Denon have built in streaming, but for the most part, their interface sucks and don't think for a second that it will be supported for 10+ years. You want something that WILL be supported for a long time? Beyond Bluesound, you can look at Sonos. While not as refined as Bluesound, you can pick up used Sonos units for not a lot of cash. You need to stop tihnking that Yamaha or Denon will give you a solid streaming experience for the life of the receiver. It's just not how they will stay in business. Meanwhile, companies like Sonos and Bluesound only exist to give end users the best experience for as long as possible.

Oh, and when you get a 'smart' TV, get a Roku, AppleTV 4K, or similar to stream. You will have a much better overall experience.

 

[highfigh]

No, that's not how streamers work.

A proper streaming device needs years and years and YEARS of support. Spotify changes, Pandora changes, XM changes, etc. All these different streaming platforms constantly change and require CONSTANT maintenance and support from the manufacturer. Your Rotel unit is VERY good, but they are a audio company. They aren't a streaming company. Bluesound is a STREAMING company, far more than an audio company. Long after the Bluesound Node is outdated and worthless, the Rotel would still sound amazing.

This is the same bad (yes bad) decision making that people have when they say things like "My smart TV sucks! The Netflix and Amazon apps are so slow!". A smart TV isn't smart. They use complete crap microchips for the streaming functions. A $100 Roku Ultra kicks the crap out of what is built into any 'smart' television!

Same is true here. If you want a GREAT streaming experience from Pandora, Spotify, or others, then get a great stand alone streaming appliance. Yes, Yamaha and Denon have built in streaming, but for the most part, their interface sucks and don't think for a second that it will be supported for 10+ years. You want something that WILL be supported for a long time? Beyond Bluesound, you can look at Sonos. While not as refined as Bluesound, you can pick up used Sonos units for not a lot of cash. You need to stop tihnking that Yamaha or Denon will give you a solid streaming experience for the life of the receiver. It's just not how they will stay in business. Meanwhile, companies like Sonos and Bluesound only exist to give end users the best experience for as long as possible.

Oh, and when you get a 'smart' TV, get a Roku, AppleTV 4K, or similar to stream. You will have a much better overall experience.

I would bet that the HDMI functions will become obsolete before the streaming stops working in those receivers. If they don't become obsolete, they'll have an HDMI board failure, IMO. My MusicCast is more than 5 years old and I have had zero problems, they have updated it at least twice and the last one improved the sound when using the enhancer.

I have seen problems with smart TVs streaming and more often that not, the more recent models had issues because of the poor WiFi signal/throughput but when they were hardwired, they worked well enough. Old Roku don't work well- I have abandoned a few of my own because Roku stops updates for those models and they work as well as a paperweight. It doesn't help that they and Apple don't put an ethernet port on some models- I think ALL streaming devices should have one.

 

[highfigh]

What Are Bluetooth Codecs? A Guide to Everything From AAC to SBC

We demystify the most common Bluetooth codecs and explain why they matter for audio quality.

www.pcmag.com

Check that link out it's got good info. I've returned the Rotel, I now feel like it's a deal breaker paying $1600 for in-amp and there's no WIFI. But it was suggested to me to get a streamer like Bluesound Node which has WiFi and to use it with the Rotel but that thing costs $500, screw that. I'm not paying for something that should have been included in the first place in the Rotel.

Why are you fixated on WiFi? It has an ethernet port, which is better than WiFi, so you should have no problem with streaming unless you're unable or unwilling to hard wire it. Read the bottom of my posts- from a couple of decades of experience installing, connecting and setting up networked AV equipment, "WiFi is for convenience, hardwired is for performance.". Distance, large/dense objects and other RF sources don't have any effect on a wired connection and if you have a large number of 'smart' devices like lighting, smart locks, etc, WiFi can become problematic, with reduced range and interruptions.

You think streaming should be included- Rotel may not have been able to work out a good deal for the rights to use someone's streaming hardware and developing their own may be outside of their expertise, so they omitted it. Network streaming isn't the same as designing and building audio equipment. You could call them and climb up the food chain until you can find someone who knows, but that's not likely to be a quick call.

Also, the NAD web page shows that this model is Roon Tested- look into using that if you don't want to use BT or AAC but you really should use Wireless APTx- I haven't used AAC BT but when I started using the Miccus BT receiver, I was amazed by the difference in sound between that and the $250 model a sales rep let me use- I compared it to AirPlay and it sounded muffled, the range sucked and overall, it struck me as a hyped POS. The Miccus sounded much better when I initially set it up and it sounds VG in use, wherever I have used it.

I see a small piece on the back of the Rotel- I think they should have used at least one SMA antenna (like the ones on routers) because they allow relocation and the cables aren't expensive, so range won't be a problem.

 

[highfigh]

But Bluetooth aptx is still pretty impressive and a pretty good upgrade for BT users who can use option.


Probably my last question do streamers like the Bluesound Node do they keep the amps original sound sig intact though, basically I'm asking do streamer(s) change or add anything to the original sound from the amp ? Thanks

They can't change the amplifier, but they can impart a 'sound' if the analog audio section isn't designed well and that's what you use to connect to the Rotel (or whatever you use).

 

[BMXTRIX]

I would bet that the HDMI functions will become obsolete before the streaming stops working in those receivers. If they don't become obsolete, they'll have an HDMI board failure, IMO. My MusicCast is more than 5 years old and I have had zero problems, they have updated it at least twice and the last one improved the sound when using the enhancer.

I have seen problems with smart TVs streaming and more often that not, the more recent models had issues because of the poor WiFi signal/throughput but when they were hardwired, they worked well enough. Old Roku don't work well- I have abandoned a few of my own because Roku stops updates for those models and they work as well as a paperweight. It doesn't help that they and Apple don't put an ethernet port on some models- I think ALL streaming devices should have one.

Maybe, but if you only have a 1080p (or 4K) TV 10+ years from now, then any 4K receiver should still work with it. The receiver may fail, but if it dosen't, then the streaming platform internally is very likely to be quite outdated and unsupported. Android phones are supported for just a few years with updates... AV receivers don't get a lot more than that, but they DO get more. I have client's with 10 year old receivers that are adding things like a Roku to their 1080p system. They are super happy with adding streaming 10 years after the fact for a $100 price tag (plus my time).

The point being that while streaming may be built in, the experience of 'great streaming' is not the priority of Yamaha or Denon and I've actually had clients call up and complain that their 7 year old Denon stopped working with Pandora... A quick Google search later and I found out that Denon needed to do a firmware update, which they WOULD roll out within the next 2-3 MONTHS! This is not something Bluesound or Sonos would allow to happen.

 

[highfigh]

Maybe, but if you only have a 1080p (or 4K) TV 10+ years from now, then any 4K receiver should still work with it. The receiver may fail, but if it dosen't, then the streaming platform internally is very likely to be quite outdated and unsupported. Android phones are supported for just a few years with updates... AV receivers don't get a lot more than that, but they DO get more. I have client's with 10 year old receivers that are adding things like a Roku to their 1080p system. They are super happy with adding streaming 10 years after the fact for a $100 price tag (plus my time).

The point being that while streaming may be built in, the experience of 'great streaming' is not the priority of Yamaha or Denon and I've actually had clients call up and complain that their 7 year old Denon stopped working with Pandora... A quick Google search later and I found out that Denon needed to do a firmware update, which they WOULD roll out within the next 2-3 MONTHS! This is not something Bluesound or Sonos would allow to happen.

I get it- I still think a TV should be a TV, not a Swiss Army Knife of electronics. Recently, I received a trouble call from one of my customers who had lost two TVs, the HDMI board in their AVR (used with the larger TV) and the network switch port that was used for the TV because of a lightning strike over the Summer. They bought an LG C series 77" and while I was looking for the reason for the loss of video from the AVR, I opened the Smart functions on the TV- it even has Sonos so, assuming it works well, they don't need to add another box in that system for streaming. While it's convenient, I'm not sure I expect it to work seamlessly.

Whether Bluesound or Sonos would allow this is up for debate- AVRs and smart phones have had problems when Sonos forced an update, but as a term AirPlay and BT can allow someone to stream from a smart phone or tablet with Spotify or Pandora. Don't get me wrong- I would hate to be forced to wait that long, but the options are there.