TWO PB-4000'S need help with Phase

JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Hi All and thank you in advance. I have been trying to really figure out what phase really does on a sub and how it should be set. Or should one just keep setting the delay right oppose to using phase? I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 that I love and will not part with it yet. Not really impressed with DTS-HD-MA compared to DTS. My Z9 has Phase built in so Im not using the Phase in the sub's I can flip in the Z9 between Normal, L Reverse R Reverse then L&R Reverse I have ran a REW Sweep not really sure if I did that right tho Please help one is up up front and one sub in in the back of room
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Hi All and thank you in advance. I have been trying to really figure out what phase really does on a sub and how it should be set. Or should one just keep setting the delay right oppose to using phase? I have a Yamaha RX-Z9 that I love and will not part with it yet. Not really impressed with DTS-HD-MA compared to DTS. My Z9 has Phase built in so Im not using the Phase in the sub's I can flip in the Z9 between Normal, L Reverse R Reverse then L&R Reverse I have ran a REW Sweep not really sure if I did that right tho Please help one is up up front and one sub in in the back of room
Phase refers to the relationship between the sound from the speakers at frequencies higher and lower than the crossover region. I wrote 'region' because it's not actually a crossover 'point', it happens gradually as the frequency rises or falls, depending on whether the low or high frequencies are being filtered.

Sound is energy and a pure tone is created from a sine wave, music is complex and made from multiple frequencies which are produced at the same time. The energy from each speaker interacts physically in the air and the measuring/listening location make a big difference- if the mic is closer to one speaker than the other, things can go bad pretty quickly, or it can be better- it depends on the speakers, the room, the acoustics and the frequencies.

if the sub has a switch with 0° and 180°, you have two choices to correct this problem, usually wrong. It might be better in one position, but that doesn't mean it will be the correct position.

If you ran REW and saw a deep V in the response where the sub crossover is set or in the 60Hz-120Hz range, something needs to be corrected. You can use REW to send pink noise to the amplifier & speakers without taking a 'snapshot'- use that to SEE the changes in the response as you move your sub or speakers, change the crossover point(s) and rotate the main speakers. I would start by putting painter's tape at the front edge of each speaker, so you can return them to where they were, in case that ends up being the best place for them (you won't have to hunt for the best location again). I would recommend finding the best location for the main speakers first, with no subs operating. They're more important to the main sound because they're the ones that allow you to hear location of sounds.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Phase refers to the relationship between the sound from the speakers at frequencies higher and lower than the crossover region. I wrote 'region' because it's not actually a crossover 'point', it happens gradually as the frequency rises or falls, depending on whether the low or high frequencies are being filtered.

Sound is energy and a pure tone is created from a sine wave, music is complex and made from multiple frequencies which are produced at the same time. The energy from each speaker interacts physically in the air and the measuring/listening location make a big difference- if the mic is closer to one speaker than the other, things can go bad pretty quickly, or it can be better- it depends on the speakers, the room, the acoustics and the frequencies.

if the sub has a switch with 0° and 180°, you have two choices to correct this problem, usually wrong. It might be better in one position, but that doesn't mean it will be the correct position.

If you ran REW and saw a deep V in the response where the sub crossover is set or in the 60Hz-120Hz range, something needs to be corrected. You can use REW to send pink noise to the amplifier & speakers without taking a 'snapshot'- use that to SEE the changes in the response as you move your sub or speakers, change the crossover point(s) and rotate the main speakers. I would start by putting painter's tape at the front edge of each speaker, so you can return them to where they were, in case that ends up being the best place for them (you won't have to hunt for the best location again). I would recommend finding the best location for the main speakers first, with no subs operating. They're more important to the main sound because they're the ones that allow you to hear location of sounds.
I am trying to figure out sending you my sweep but it keeps saying error from REW
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
My REW Sweep
I can't see that image clearly- if you want to save time, you could photograph the screen with your phone and save it to your computer, so it can be posted here. If that's what you did, send it to yourself in an e-mail and select 'Actual Size' before it sends (this applies to iPhones- Idon't know what will be seen on an Android).

Edited- I have no idea why my reply contained 'expend'- that made no sense.
 
Last edited:
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Also, if you press the camera icon in rew you can save a screen cap as a file and upload that. I can’t see the pic posted currently.
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
This is my Front sub a 23.1 ft and 21.7 on back 1/6 smoothing
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
I can't expend that clearly- if you want to save time, you could photograph the screen with your phone and save it to your computer, so it can be posted here. If that's what you did, send it to yourself in an e-mail and select 'Actual Size' before it sends (this applies to iPhones- Idon't know what will be seen on an Android).
ok i sent a new image bud seeing what you think
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
I can't expend that clearly- if you want to save time, you could photograph the screen with your phone and save it to your computer, so it can be posted here. If that's what you did, send it to yourself in an e-mail and select 'Actual Size' before it sends (this applies to iPhones- Idon't know what will be seen on an Android).
Ok I sent the new image does everything look ok ?
 
JOHN FICKEL

JOHN FICKEL

Senior Audioholic
Ok got it .. I leveled my system to 85db and my subs to 90DB
 
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