Receiver, Chromecast Audio and external DAC

[remomoreira]

I like to listen to music from 24bit/96Khz FLAC files using my Android smartphone, casting it to my Pionner receiver via Chromecast Audio, entering the receiver's optical input. But as Android only recognizes up to 48Khz, I'm thinking of attaching an external DAC, maybe a FiiO k3, for example. I've already seen here that the app player I use to play music on my smartphone, the USB Audio Player Pro, fortunately ignores the smartphone's limitation, and sends the music to the DAC with its original parameter (24bit/96Khz, for example).

Would it work? In that case, who would send the music to Chromecast Audio, would it be the external DAC?

 

[lovinthehd]

Even if it "worked" would it be an audible difference?

 

[remomoreira]

Surely,

 

[lovinthehd]

Surely,

How do you figure?

 

[TLS Guy]

Surely,

Wrong. Going to 96 KHz is a total waste of bandwidth. 48 KHz is even overkill. Don't be fooled by ignorant Audiophools.

 

[remomoreira]

Ok, let us use 48Khz. Would the external DAC send the signal to Chromecast Audio?

 

[TLS Guy]

Ok, let us use 48Khz. Would the external DAC send the signal to Chromecast Audio?

No, your router sends the signal to the Chromecast. Your iPhone, computer, or what ever you stream with, just becomes the control device one you press the Chromecast icon. Then the your router sends the stream straight to your Chromecast, and your device is out of the equation. Your remote device never sends any stream to the Chromecast directly. That is the beauty of the system and why it is so robust. You can also hard wire an ethernet cable to some Chromecast devices, and that is what I do.

I think someone has indoctrinated you about all this. The fact is bits are bits, and on any device there is also robust error correction. About the latter there is also nonsense floating around, about that. The Solomon code error correction is robust and a total correction. There is so much money wasted on these exotic DACs which are a waste of and it doesn't end there, with mountains of false information. Almost always money spent of better speakers would have a real impact on better sound, and a $1000.00 dollar or more DAC will not make a wit of difference. When engineering digital systems, you have to leave your old analog way of looking at streams and connections in a totally different way. There is absolutely nothing in common, or similar about the two. Stop reading audio articles and reviews by arts graduates from journalism school and start listening to proper engineers. I would say 90% or more that is out there is just nonsense. It is clear to me you have fed in nonsense troughs.

 

[Eppie]

I like to listen to music from 24bit/96Khz FLAC files using my Android smartphone, casting it to my Pionner receiver via Chromecast Audio, entering the receiver's optical input. But as Android only recognizes up to 48Khz, I'm thinking of attaching an external DAC, maybe a FiiO k3, for example. I've already seen here that the app player I use to play music on my smartphone, the USB Audio Player Pro, fortunately ignores the smartphone's limitation, and sends the music to the DAC with its original parameter (24bit/96Khz, for example).

Would it work? In that case, who would send the music to Chromecast Audio, would it be the external DAC?

There is an analysis of the Chromecast on AudioScienceReview here that may help. My understanding is that casting via the Chrome browser yields bad results so you need a player that bypasses Android audio, like the one you are using. Amir at ASR used Roon and I use Roon on my mobile to cast to my NVidia Shield TV which is also android based. If you are using the toslink (optical) to connect the Chromecast to the AVR, then you are using the Pioneer's internal DAC to do the digital to analogue conversion. Adding an external DAC merely replaces the Pioneer DAC with an external one that will likely not sound noticeably better. If the Pioneer supports it, try and look at the input information on screen to see what the optical in on the Pioneer is receiving. It might give sampling and bit rate information to see if the Chromecast is passing through the signal or performing a conversion.

 

[lovinthehd]

There is an analysis of the Chromecast on AudioScienceReview here that may help. My understanding is that casting via the Chrome browser yields bad results so you need a player that bypasses Android audio, like the one you are using. Amir at ASR used Roon and I use Roon on my mobile to cast to my NVidia Shield TV which is also android based. If you are using the toslink (optical) to connect the Chromecast to the AVR, then you are using the Pioneer's internal DAC to do the digital to analogue conversion. Adding an external DAC merely replaces the Pioneer DAC with an external one that will likely not sound noticeably better. If the Pioneer supports it, try and look at the input information on screen to see what the optical in on the Pioneer is receiving. It might give sampling and bit rate information to see if the Chromecast is passing through the signal or performing a conversion.

FWIW I've never used Chrome at all, let alone for casting, I use android and dlna devices with my Audio Chromecasts without any audible issues at least...might show up on an AP I suppose but....I've also used the Audio Chromecasts' built in dac as well as connect them via the minioptical....couldn't tell any difference.

 

[Trebdp83]

I like to listen to music from 24bit/96Khz FLAC files using my Android smartphone, casting it to my Pionner receiver via Chromecast Audio, entering the receiver's optical input. But as Android only recognizes up to 48Khz, I'm thinking of attaching an external DAC, maybe a FiiO k3, for example. I've already seen here that the app player I use to play music on my smartphone, the USB Audio Player Pro, fortunately ignores the smartphone's limitation, and sends the music to the DAC with its original parameter (24bit/96Khz, for example).

Would it work? In that case, who would send the music to Chromecast Audio, would it be the external DAC?

Are these files downloaded on your phone? From what service? What is the model of Pioneer receiver? All of the information you can contribute about your system is helpful for others to use to offer information and suggestions.

 

[TLS Guy]

There is an analysis of the Chromecast on AudioScienceReview here that may help. My understanding is that casting via the Chrome browser yields bad results so you need a player that bypasses Android audio, like the one you are using. Amir at ASR used Roon and I use Roon on my mobile to cast to my NVidia Shield TV which is also android based. If you are using the toslink (optical) to connect the Chromecast to the AVR, then you are using the Pioneer's internal DAC to do the digital to analogue conversion. Adding an external DAC merely replaces the Pioneer DAC with an external one that will likely not sound noticeably better. If the Pioneer supports it, try and look at the input information on screen to see what the optical in on the Pioneer is receiving. It might give sampling and bit rate information to see if the Chromecast is passing through the signal or performing a conversion.

That is not true. The stream goes straight to the Chromecast device from your router. The quality is as good as the original stream I have streamed the BPO as a test and the sound and picture are as good as my HTPC which is first class. I have also trialed qbuzz music high res streams, also with excellent results. I do not use these devices a lot, I stream via HTPC and DAW, audio only the DAW as a rule. This is because I don't want the bother of using my mobile device,, the other units are much more handy.

As far as I can tell the quality of Chromecast is totally dependent on the quality of the stream sent over the NET, and frankly a lot are awful. The only ones I can recommend are from orchestras, the Met, Medici TV, the BBC and qbuzz. None of the others I have tried come close, with Windows music being particularly awful, but I was not streaming from an Apple TV device, but from my LG TV app via eARC return. As usual the pop culture descends to the bottom fast.

 

[Trebdp83]

Files downloaded to a device will be cast from the device. Some streamed content will be sent directly from services to the output device with a Smart device acting as the remote controller using some apps, think MusicCast. Some apps will cast services from the device itself rather than just act as the remote controller of services to the output device, think DTS-Play-Fi. If the service and files in question here are from Tidal, well, that presents other issues which is why I inquired about the setup.

 

[Trebdp83]

Apologies, by directly from device, I mean from content downloaded in device over Wi-Fi to router and then to output device. Streams from services would bypass the remote controller device and go to the output device over the network in some cases and not in other cases as mentioned.

 

[Eppie]

The question is whether the Chromecast does digital pass-through. Amir's tests show that Google CAST has issues through Chrome. If using earbuds on an Android phone or the 1/8" audio jack on the Chromecast, you are limited by what Android audio can do. I know that my Shield Pro does not handle 5-channel FLAC if I cast to it. If I use Kali, though, which uses its own audio drivers, I then get multi-channel FLAC support. If the op can cast files via toslink without down converting then I don't see any issues.

 

[TLS Guy]

The question is whether the Chromecast does digital pass-through. Amir's tests show that Google CAST has issues through Chrome. If using earbuds on an Android phone or the 1/8" audio jack on the Chromecast, you are limited by what Android audio can do. I know that my Shield Pro does not handle 5-channel FLAC if I cast to it. If I use Kali, though, which uses its own audio drivers, I then get multi-channel FLAC support. If the op can cast files via toslink without down converting then I don't see any issues.

My eldest son is chief engineer for a large company and works with the digital domain. He has proved to me that streams through Chromecast do NOT triangulate and go straight from router to the Chromecast device, and that passes it straight through to the AVP via the HDMI port. If Amir says anything different he is full of you know what.

I tested qbuzz with my sons iPhone as he has a subscription. iI worked fine, including passing Atmos.

I should state that I do not download media to my mobile devices. The only other thing I download is BBC iPlayer to the APC and record audio to the DAW from iPlayer via the DAW and use the Fireface 802 to control the recording to WaveLab.

I do occasionally buy a CD online and download it to the DAW. I recently downloaded a disc from Signum Classics and the quality I think would equal that of the CD. I now note many companies are only offering their recordings via download.

The point of this, is that with the way I do it, the quality of streaming via Chromecast is equal in quality to other methods of capturing the same stream.
Bottom line, is that if you are having an audio quality issue, it is external to the Chromecast dongle.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's no question you can either have the CA units pass on a digital signal via optical (or use the internal dac and use an analog 3.5mm cable). The CAs don't handle my multich flac files, tho....

 

[lovinthehd]

My eldest son is chief engineer for a large company and works with the digital domain. He has proved to me that streams through Chromecast do NOT triangulate and go straight from router to the Chromecast device, and that passes it straight through to the AVP via the HDMI port. If Amir says anything different he is full of you know what.

I tested qbuzz with my sons iPhone as he has a subscription. iI worked fine, including passing Atmos.

I should state that I do not download media to my mobile devices. The only other thing I download is BBC iPlayer to the APC and record audio to the DAW from iPlayer via the DAW and use the Fireface 802 to control the recording to WaveLab.

I do occasionally buy a CD online and download it to the DAW. I recently downloaded a disc from Signum Classics and the quality I think would equal that of the CD. I now note many companies are only offering their recordings via download.

The point of this, is that with the way I do it, the quality of streaming via Chromecast is equal in quality to other methods of capturing the same stream.
Bottom line, is that if you are having an audio quality issue, it is external to the Chromecast dongle.

My Chromecast Audio units do not have hdmi, that would be the hdmi audio/video version. I can send directly (not in a radio sense, but via my local network) to the CA unit from my computer or portable devices, tho (so assume the browser used could have an effect).

 

[TLS Guy]

My Chromecast Audio units do not have hdmi, that would be the hdmi audio/video version. I can send directly (not in a radio sense, but via my local network) to the CA unit from my computer or portable devices, tho (so assume the browser used could have an effect).

I should have said what I was using. All my three Chromecast units are AV. The one that is used for evaluation is the one in the AV room, which is a 4K Ultra. It is hard wired to the home Ethernet back bone via the 19" Ethernet hub in the first AV rack. In this home if it doesn't move it is hard wired. So only our two phones, my wife's iPad and my laptop use Wi-Fi. In the way our set up is engineered, then once the connection is made from router to Chromecast by the portable device, then the browser and portable device are out of the equation as far as AV quality is concerned.

 

[lovinthehd]

I should have said what I was using. All my three Chromecast units are AV. The one that is used for evaluation is the one in the AV room, which is a 4K Ultra. It is hard wired to the home Ethernet back bone via the 19" Ethernet hub in the first AV rack. In this home if it doesn't move it is hard wired. So only our two phones, my wife's iPad and my laptop use Wi-Fi. In the way our set up is engineered, then once the connection is made from router to Chromecast by the portable device, then the browser and portable device are out of the equation as far as AV quality is concerned.

Still seems if you have a program creating distortion, which is what I believe Amir found, and you send that signal it's not something your router has anything to do with except to pass it on.

 

[Trebdp83]

Yikes. Ok, so anyway, wired connections from iOS or Android phones will be limited to 24/48 with a wired connection UNLESS a DAC is in between the phone and audio output device. Now, the Chromecast protocol supports 24/96 and it can be sent over Wi-Fi to a Chromecast Audio. This doesn't help 24/192 folk as Chromecast is limited to 24/96, but I digress. The optical connection to the receiver should be sending 24/96 if it is being sent to the Chromecast Audio in the first place.

There is no need for another DAC here unless a wired DAC is connected to the phone and then a cable from it to the receiver's analog inputs is used to cut the ChromeCast Audio out of the mix altogether. Again, if we are talking Tidal MQA, then there will be no support for it over Chromecast and an external DAC supporting MQA will need to be connected to the phone for output. Wether any of this makes an audible difference really doesn't matter when one is simply trying to get what has been downloaded or is being streamed from their phone to their audio output device without conversion.

As far as Atmos, Qobuz actually has actually partnered with THX for their own brand of "Spatial Audio" presentation. It is THX Spatial Audio. You, know, cuz' we needed one more format out there. While I enjoy Dolby Atmos Music over an AVR with multiple speakers, I hate "Spatial Audio" of any flavor over headphones. But, to each their own.

Like so many video service apps and their different output specs per device used, different music streaming services will support certain protocols and devices differently as well. Chromecast supports 24/96 but that doesn't mean every service will support their music being sent over ChromeCast at 24/96. It's all so ridiculous anymore. I believe Qobuz works at 24/96 over Chromecast while Amazon Music and Apple Music do not support hi-res over Chromecast. Apple Music will go over as lossy AAC as Chromecast does not support ALAC. These things change by the minute and there are work arounds but I believe those are the basics and I am agreeable to being corrected for any errors.

Lots of capable hardware out there that are all being limited in one way or another based on different ecosystems, streaming services, protocols and licensing deals. If the music sounds good, don't dig too deep and ruin it all by stressing over the numbers. If you live and die by the numbers, well, do your homework before making any purchases and best of luck to you.