Moving And Separating Audio

[jonkash]

New to this so I hope my title is accurate to my problem. Moved into a new home and there are built in speakers throughout the first level. 4 and a subwoofer in the living room, 2 in kitchen, 2 in dining room, and 2 in the office. All the speakers have wire run to a mechanical room sorta thing in the office closet. The issue is I have no clue how to get audio from the tv in living room to closet and back to speakers in living room. The only things behind the tv are 4 cat6 female ports and a coax line which run to the closet. Upon doing some research I think I can get audio from the tv to the closet through the cat 6 port using something like this: https://www.amazon.com/H-COME-Extender-Ethernet-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B076KD5LJ1/ref=pd_aw_fbt_sccl_1/140-2629710-0683934?pd_rd_w=ccOP1&content-id=amzn1.sym.f353d175-26fc-4776-8298-842dab47b290&pf_rd_p=f353d175-26fc-4776-8298-842dab47b290&pf_rd_r=JDR3BPKM8AKYTJ3RF0K2&pd_rd_wg=ewLCj&pd_rd_r=e0b02df8-b0b8-40ec-a690-de3440c98858&pd_rd_i=B076KD5LJ1&psc=1

It would be; tv > HDMI to Ethernet > through the Ethernet run in the wall to the closet > Ethernet to HDMI > receiver > speakers

The issue I run into is all the receivers I've seen have only a left right center while in the living room there are 4 speakers and 10 throughout the house so I won't have enough outputs on the receiver, right? I have a speaker selector, would that help?

The guy who lived here before said he never set it up bc a local audio company quoted 3000 in parts to get it to work. Is that true? Even if I had a receiver for each zone I feel like it wouldn't be that much.

Looking forward to hear what you all have to say.

 

[lovinthehd]

First, I'd want to know what the speakers particularly are and their spec before bothering with much further effort. An avr alone is not the tool for the job, altho it may, with other amplification/distribution gear, be useful as a source. A 4.1 living room isn't necessarily an issue, as you can use a phantom center, altho you could conceivably add a center anyways.

 

[Eppie]

An Audio Video Receiver (AVR) is designed to power one room and maybe a second one if it supports a Zone 2. What you require is a distribution amp/receiver for a multi-room setup. You can do this with a lot of research but don't expect much info from retailers. This is more the realm of professional installers.

If the living room speakers are in the ceiling, I wouldn't want them for TV audio. Ceiling speakers are more for background music unless you plan to go full surround in the living room with ATMOS speakers in the ceiling (and then you need to be concerned about proper placement).

For whole home audio you either need control panels in every room that has speakers, or a distribution amp that uses a non-IR remote (not line of sight) or a mobile phone app for control. You then need to consider whether you want the same source material played in all rooms or different material in different rooms, the latter costing more money.

 

[highfigh]

HDMI baluns that cost $12 are worth every penny. Good ones cost dollars, though- don't expect too much from those.

 

[jonkash]

First, I'd want to know what the speakers particularly are and their spec before bothering with much further effort. An avr alone is not the tool for the job, altho it may, with other amplification/distribution gear, be useful as a source. A 4.1 living room isn't necessarily an issue, as you can use a phantom center, altho you could conceivably add a center anyways.

Thanks for the input! Unfortunately, I don't know any of the speakers' specs, they are 6-8" in diameter if that means anything. as for the center channel i have a mantle below the tv where i can put a sound bar but with the audio equipment in the office closet idk how i would connect it to the system unless i can get it to the closet using another one of the cat 6 ports or a coax line.

 

[jonkash]

An Audio Video Receiver (AVR) is designed to power one room and maybe a second one if it supports a Zone 2. What you require is a distribution amp/receiver for a multi-room setup. You can do this with a lot of research but don't expect much info from retailers. This is more the realm of professional installers.

If the living room speakers are in the ceiling, I wouldn't want them for TV audio. Ceiling speakers are more for background music unless you plan to go full surround in the living room with ATMOS speakers in the ceiling (and then you need to be concerned about proper placement).

For whole home audio you either need control panels in every room that has speakers, or a distribution amp that uses a non-IR remote (not line of sight) or a mobile phone app for control. You then need to consider whether you want the same source material played in all rooms or different materials in different rooms, the latter costing more money.

thanks for the reply! the one i was looking at was a 2 zoned system. def not a professional installer lol. also looked at the distribution amp you mentioned, those are in the few thousand dollar range, think that's what the og owner was talking about when we spoke abt it.

the living room speakers are in the ceiling. would setting up the ceiling speakers be a big decrease in audio quality over the tv speakers (why do i get the feeling this isn't the place to mention built in tv speakers lol)? would the avg listener have a bad experience?

I was looking at something like this - Denon AVR-X4200W 7.2 home theater receiver - for the job. use the HDMI arc for the living room tv's 4.1 system and the other zone through speaker selector for the other 6 speakers. ik i wont have separate audio for other 3 zones but they are all in close proximity so it wont really matter. not feasible to play diff audio in each and be able to make each one out. ykwim? more important that i have individual on off control.

 

[Eppie]

Argh, lost my post due to forum maintenance. I'll give it another go. You can use the AVR for the living room and run the other 3 rooms off of Zone 2 through a speaker switch. Most members would not recommend ceiling speakers for a TV setup though, the main issue being that dialogue is coming from the ceiling instead of the TV. I would only consider it if 2 of the 4 speakers are close to the TV and in front of the seating position. If they are far enough in front of you, then you can get some semblance of sound coming from the TV. If they are all over head then there will be a disconnect from what you see and hear. Better to just use the ceiling speakers for music then and maybe get a sound bar for the TV if you don't what a full speaker setup.

You can't run a centre speaker over ethernet. The cable is too thin. To add a centre speaker you'll need to run 16 or 14 gauge wire to the TV or just disable the centre channel on the AVR. You'll need a good quality HDMI over ethernet receiver/transmitter for the TV. Consider whether you just need 1080 or 4k and what the total cable length will be.

I would also pull down one ceiling speaker to see what you have. Stereo speakers will be 4, 6, or 8 ohms. Distributed systems will have higher impedance speakers with a voltage selector switch on the speaker. At minimum, I would use a multimeter to measure the DC resistance and see if the speakers are around 6 or 8 ohms. If the speakers are for a distributed system then the AVR will not work.

For TV viewing you will also need think about the remote. AVR remotes use infra-red (IR) and are line of sight. You will need an IR receiver at the TV and transmitter at the AVR. Might be able to run that over the ethernet cabling but I have not researched that. There may also be other options for using a radio frequency remote. Just some of the things you need to keep in mind when the system is in a different room.

 

[jonkash]

Argh, lost my post due to forum maintenance. I'll give it another go. You can use the AVR for the living room and run the other 3 rooms off of Zone 2 through a speaker switch. Most members would not recommend ceiling speakers for a TV setup though, the main issue being that dialogue is coming from the ceiling instead of the TV. I would only consider it if 2 of the 4 speakers are close to the TV and in front of the seating position. If they are far enough in front of you, then you can get some semblance of sound coming from the TV. If they are all over head then there will be a disconnect from what you see and hear. Better to just use the ceiling speakers for music then and maybe get a sound bar for the TV if you don't what a full speaker setup.

You can't run a centre speaker over ethernet. The cable is too thin. To add a centre speaker you'll need to run 16 or 14 gauge wire to the TV or just disable the centre channel on the AVR. You'll need a good quality HDMI over ethernet receiver/transmitter for the TV. Consider whether you just need 1080 or 4k and what the total cable length will be.

I would also pull down one ceiling speaker to see what you have. Stereo speakers will be 4, 6, or 8 ohms. Distributed systems will have higher impedance speakers with a voltage selector switch on the speaker. At minimum, I would use a multimeter to measure the DC resistance and see if the speakers are around 6 or 8 ohms. If the speakers are for a distributed system then the AVR will not work.

For TV viewing you will also need think about the remote. AVR remotes use infra-red (IR) and are line of sight. You will need an IR receiver at the TV and transmitter at the AVR. Might be able to run that over the ethernet cabling but I have not researched that. There may also be other options for using a radio frequency remote. Just some of the things you need to keep in mind when the system is in a different room.

my reply was lost too lol. 2 of the speakers are on either side of the tv and the rear 2 are placed behind the seating position. i found some things that said i can use the tv speakers as center channel, not sure abt the specifics, running a line is not an option due to room position and other factor, could i run center as a soundbar through the existing coax or to the tv to the receiver or directly off the tv - a 2 output kind of thing - ykwim?

My understanding is that for the HDMI to ethernet adapter is that after a certain run ~100ft i need it to be powered. the ones above are not powered as the run is max 65ft. since its only moving audio will a difference of HD, 4k, 8k be audible? the powered ones are like 5 extra dollars online not a crazy price if you say it will make an audible difference to the avg listener.

For the remote issue, I don't have cable, only streaming apps on the smart tv, an apply tv, and bluray player. don't think the apple or bluray need line of sight to work as they are currently mounted behind the tv anyway. as for the tv volume, could i just leave the receiver on like 50-75% volume and "fine tune" the volume with the tv remote? same way when i use car Bluetooth i have phone volume on max and control volume in car with knob on dash?

Thanks, been super helpful. looking forward to your reply!

 

[lovinthehd]

Active hdmi cables can be needed in lengths shorter than 65 ft, can be down to as little as 30 ft judging by various experiences posted. The Ruipro cables get good marks generally fwiw.

A tv speaker nor a soundbar can generally be the center channel speaker as there's simply no way to enable such with most gear (some may be out there but you'd need to confirm that specific kind of connectivity to act as center using signal from an avr or pre-pro).

 

[mono-bloc]

I would be contacting the original owner, and ask just what he was using for his system, or ask him for the name of the company / installer that did the job in the first place. Failing that simply forget the installed system and buy a soundbar.

 

[Eppie]

my reply was lost too lol. 2 of the speakers are on either side of the tv and the rear 2 are placed behind the seating position. i found some things that said i can use the tv speakers as center channel, not sure abt the specifics, running a line is not an option due to room position and other factor, could i run center as a soundbar through the existing coax or to the tv to the receiver or directly off the tv - a 2 output kind of thing - ykwim?

My understanding is that for the HDMI to ethernet adapter is that after a certain run ~100ft i need it to be powered. the ones above are not powered as the run is max 65ft. since its only moving audio will a difference of HD, 4k, 8k be audible? the powered ones are like 5 extra dollars online not a crazy price if you say it will make an audible difference to the avg listener.

For the remote issue, I don't have cable, only streaming apps on the smart tv, an apply tv, and bluray player. don't think the apple or bluray need line of sight to work as they are currently mounted behind the tv anyway. as for the tv volume, could i just leave the receiver on like 50-75% volume and "fine tune" the volume with the tv remote? same way when i use car Bluetooth i have phone volume on max and control volume in car with knob on dash?

Thanks, been super helpful. looking forward to your reply!

To use the TV or soundbar as a centre first requires processing the original content and separating the centre channel and then you still need to get the signal to the TV. Not practical and TVs do not have audio inputs.

As mentioned above, powered HDMI will be needed. It's not the audio quality you need to worry about; it's the video. Use a 4k certified solution for future proofing. The Ruipro cables are great, but if you are using the existing ethernet lines then powered HDMI over ethernet is what you want, so you'll need an extra power outlet at the TV. Some systems only need power at one end and run power over the ethernet cable to the other unit.

TV volume only controls the speakers in the TV. The signal over the HDMI eARC will be fixed and the AVR controls the speaker volume. You need a way to control the AVR remotely, even if you only use the ceiling speakers for music.