JTR RS1 or PSA S3012

R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
I have a dedicated theater room which is 13x17x10. It’s used only for movies. I am considering replacing my 2 HSU ULS15’s with a pair of either JTR RS1 captivators or PSA S3012’s.

I would value some thoughts and opinions from those on the forum.

thank you in advance
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
The JTR has at least been reviewed here. Its low end is impressive for a sealed 18, and overall performance is about as good as such a beast gets.

I’m not aware of any PSA subs being tested recently, so all we could offer there is an educated guess.
 
R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
Thanks you. I considered that but I am not trying to solve an output concern. The subs are ample for that. Where I think they’re solid is in mid base but don’t perform as well below 20hz
 
Steve81

Steve81

Audioholics Five-0
Thanks you. I considered that but I am not trying to solve an output concern. The subs are ample for that. Where I think they’re solid is in mid base but don’t perform as well below 20hz
I suspect you might want to cross the PSA off the list in that case. It’s undoubtedly powerful in the mid bass, but unless I see third party measurements to the contrary, I have my doubts it’ll keep up with the JTR down deep.
 
R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
Fv18 x2
?
I would prefer sealed subs. I did look at the new monolith 13s and 16s, just prefer how tactile a sealed sub is. JTR is appealing because of how low they are able to go without compromising the mid bass spectrum


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S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
I suspect you might want to cross the PSA off the list in that case. It’s undoubtedly powerful in the mid bass, but unless I see third party measurements to the contrary, I have my doubts it’ll keep up with the JTR down deep.
Agreed. There is no way that the PSA sub will have as much displacement or as low of a resonant frequency.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I would prefer sealed subs. I did look at the new monolith 13s and 16s, just prefer how tactile a sealed sub is. JTR is appealing because of how low they are able to go without compromising the mid bass spectrum


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While I do agree that the monos are impressive, I have to disagree that sealed subs are more tactile. Generally speaking, it can take as many as four sealed to equal the output of a single ported by the time they get to 20hz. Imo, for HT, that’s an easy choice.
Luckily your room is pretty small.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Spartan
If you want subs which are efficient below 20 Hz, you have to look for ported boxes. Sealed speakers are not efficient at those infrasonic frequencies, and would require beefy amplification to allow powerful output to reproduce them with resulting increased distortion as well.
 
R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
While I do agree that the monos are impressive, I have to disagree that sealed subs are more tactile. Generally speaking, it can take as many as four sealed to equal the output of a single ported by the time they get to 20hz. Imo, for HT, that’s an easy choice.
Luckily your room is pretty small.
Yes, I understand your point. I’m not looking to solve an output problem. My HSU’s are ample for that. Just trying improve response below 20hz.


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William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Yes, I understand your point. I’m not looking to solve an output problem. My HSU’s are ample for that. Just trying improve response below 20hz.


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Just curious. Have you run rew to see how the HSU’s roll off?
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
Also, if the “shoes” are pretty flat to 20ish(maybe), a great option is a
BOSS/hoverBOSS riser. The Hideaway Theater
I think the thread got absorbed by the TR thread, but the BOSS in just about any form is better than crowsons or buttkickers. Definitely cheaper than new subs. While I don’t care for sealed subs, the uls are very good, and a boss might be exactly what you need. TR for days.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Full Audioholic
So 2 jtr rs1 subs for over $6000? That’ll have similar performance to what you own. I’m confused with going in that direction. Monolith subs are on sale at the moment, I’d easily choose them. The mono 16 would absolutely destroy that sub in deeper bass and output. Even a pair of monolith 12s for under $1700 would be comparable to those rs1 subs.

I think you need to look at ported subs that are tuned low to get what you’re after. JTR are nice but are ugly and way overpriced now. Use to be a sub people would buy for getting high spl for reasonable price. Now the cap 4000 is over $5000.

I bought a pair of cap 4000 6-7 years and they were around $6000 for both. 2 years later we moved and they couldn’t fit in new home. Took months to sell and if memory is right I got around $3000 for the pair. I’d skip the JTR.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Curious, what particular content below 18hz are you chasing? While the JTRs are likely a bit more capable, just wonder how worthwhile the essentially small difference is. Altho I'd rather have Deep Sea Sound 24s if they were available....
 
R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
So 2 jtr rs1 subs for over $6000? That’ll have similar performance to what you own. I’m confused with going in that direction. Monolith subs are on sale at the moment, I’d easily choose them. The mono 16 would absolutely destroy that sub in deeper bass and output. Even a pair of monolith 12s for under $1700 would be comparable to those rs1 subs.

I think you need to look at ported subs that are tuned low to get what you’re after. JTR are nice but are ugly and way overpriced now. Use to be a sub people would buy for getting high spl for reasonable price. Now the cap 4000 is over $5000.

I bought a pair of cap 4000 6-7 years and they were around $6000 for both. 2 years later we moved and they couldn’t fit in new home. Took months to sell and if memory is right I got around $3000 for the pair. I’d skip the JTR.
As I look at the reviews both on both websites and from independent reviews, HSU and JTR are indeed similar from an output perspective but not from a sonic perspective. JTR’s seem to go lower while performing well for med bass. I suppose one will never know how they perform until they get them in their room.

The monoliths are appealing but their support is in question to me. Never having heard a ported sub in my room, I worry about chuffing. Perhaps I should challenge my assumption. I don’t care what the subs look like, they’re in a dark room.

What the HSU’s don’t do is hit you in the chest like my old velodynes did. Both of those finally gave in and I replaced them with HSU’s which were intended to be interim subs until after I built my new home. Now that we are in, I am reevaluating the subs.


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R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
Curious, what particular content below 18hz are you chasing? While the JTRs are likely a bit more capable, just wonder how worthwhile the essentially small difference is. Altho I'd rather have Deep Sea Sound 24s if they were available....
Ascendo has some big subs too, 32’s and 50’s. My room just won’t support that big and I wonder if my house could handle it too. Crazy to think about


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Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Full Audioholic
What room correction are you using? Do you use rew? How about a mini dsp?

I just recently helped a friend setup his system. 4 svs sb3000 in gloss black to match his revel f208 upfront, c208 center and the four matching bookshelves for surrounds. Very clean 7.4.4 setup. Using his denon 4700 with mini dsp. We used rew to see what spots in his 17x14x12 foot achieved best bass. When we were done it was hitting 110db from 8-100hz. So nice and flat and I was proud of that result. He didn’t like it though and mentioned his bass sounded better before with his old 12” ported klipsch. So I reloaded his audyssey settings he had before, and went to rew with these two klipsch spl120 subs. I found out quickly that he liked loud boomy bass. He turned up his gain on klipsch to where he liked it. Rew showed 120+ db from 40-60hz and less than 90db from 16-25hz. So it’s what he got use to.

So I went back to these 4 sb3000 and his mini dsp and put a curve he liked. Around 110db at 8hz then a steady climb to 124db from 35-75hz. Was hard to know exactly the right db because my umik 1 kept clipping at that volume. We really didn’t even have the amps turned up that high either. So maybe could have gotten louder. It wasn’t my preference to eq that way but he loved it, he was all smiles. In the end it’s his system and he needs to be happy.

Maybe this is what you’re after, still want deep bass, but want that mid slam. Those svs sb3000 are sealed 13” subs in a very small enclosure. I might say they are the highest spl sub ever made at that footprint. Kinda incredible for me coming from large ported subs. I want to say he spent under $5000 on these 4 subs and mini dsp. The crazy thing is subs are so small people really don’t even notice them. Blending into his loft/family room.

Your hsu uls15 actually perform as well or better than his sb3000 if it’s the new version two. All you need is to set them up in a way you like or even add two more. Or you might end up buying two high end, powerful, and expensive subs then run room correction, to find out it sounds almost exactly the same.
 
R

Rzelinka

Audioholic Intern
What room correction are you using? Do you use rew? How about a mini dsp?

I just recently helped a friend setup his system. 4 svs sb3000 in gloss black to match his revel f208 upfront, c208 center and the four matching bookshelves for surrounds. Very clean 7.4.4 setup. Using his denon 4700 with mini dsp. We used rew to see what spots in his 17x14x12 foot achieved best bass. When we were done it was hitting 110db from 8-100hz. So nice and flat and I was proud of that result. He didn’t like it though and mentioned his bass sounded better before with his old 12” ported klipsch. So I reloaded his audyssey settings he had before, and went to rew with these two klipsch spl120 subs. I found out quickly that he liked loud boomy bass. He turned up his gain on klipsch to where he liked it. Rew showed 120+ db from 40-60hz and less than 90db from 16-25hz. So it’s what he got use to.

So I went back to these 4 sb3000 and his mini dsp and put a curve he liked. Around 110db at 8hz then a steady climb to 124db from 35-75hz. Was hard to know exactly the right db because my umik 1 kept clipping at that volume. We really didn’t even have the amps turned up that high either. So maybe could have gotten louder. It wasn’t my preference to eq that way but he loved it, he was all smiles. In the end it’s his system and he needs to be happy.

Maybe this is what you’re after, still want deep bass, but want that mid slam. Those svs sb3000 are sealed 13” subs in a very small enclosure. I might say they are the highest spl sub ever made at that footprint. Kinda incredible for me coming from large ported subs. I want to say he spent under $5000 on these 4 subs and mini dsp. The crazy thing is subs are so small people really don’t even notice them. Blending into his loft/family room.

Your hsu uls15 actually perform as well or better than his sb3000 if it’s the new version two. All you need is to set them up in a way you like or even add two more. Or you might end up buying two high end, powerful, and expensive subs then run room correction, to find out it sounds almost exactly the same.
My processor is the Yamaha 5200, and used their native YPAO correction. It’s not great so I also did it the old fashioned way with an SPL meter. To my ears, the SPL meter sounded much better. To your point, it’s my system and I have to like it.

I plan to upgrade the processor to Trinnov at some point but that’s a year or so down the road.

As for sub placement, I don’t have many options given the equipment and seating. The subs are on the side walls, in front of L and R bed layer towers. All bed layer speakers will also be replaced down the road as well. My Def Tech setup was great when I bought it in 2003 but not ideal for Atmos today given their bi-polar design so those will be sold too.

It’s a work in progress which I am doing in stages and want to get as close to end game gear as possible with all stages.

I did run REW with the UMIK1, I don’t get much of anything below 18hz in my room. I understand there’s not much content below 20 but also understand the HSU ULS 15 MK2’s aren’t designed to go that low. From reviews and published stats I read tuned ports are and and the JTR is too. I have no experience with ported subs and reading about port chuffing has me a bit nervous which is why I am wanting to stay with what I know which are sealed subs.

Stats on anything from PSA are hard to come by which is why some recommend against them. Given my room layout and sub placement the design of the PSA S3012 was interesting.

I haven’t tried a mini dsp. Maybe worth a try. I’m running all XLR connections so it wouldn’t be the 2x4 most everyone uses.

Thank you for the thoughtful response


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