Should You Use Cables as Tone Controls?

[witchdoctor]

I have to ask, how can a speaker cable reduce noise? I use 12AWG oxygen free, shielded Mediabridge 15-ft, oh with bananas on the end didn't pay that much about 80 bucks for 3 of those. Before I use the clear coated regular 12AWG oxygen free I just cut off about 1/2 to expose the copper wire, used the nuts tighten down Walla. No difference in sound quality whatsoever between the two cables I just wanted the convenience of the Mediabridge cables with the bananas. Nicer cables those Mediabridge construction wise. But you like your cable's I'm not going to hate on you because of how much you paid for those cables. Your money your hobby. I just don't believe between your speaker cables and mine it would make any difference in sound quality. I just don't see that happening.

So if you see members here losing it over cables you can understand, there is no universal cable just as there is no universal grid, universal power supply, universal receiver, etc. I think where haters lose it is not the fact that cables can impact your system, it is the price issue.ie, you will get "ripped off". Fair point. I always order from companies that have a return policy and if it doesn't work for me, I ship it back.

 

[lovinthehd]

That is a great question and I appreciate your response. Wires can act like antennas and pick up noise, with the proper wires you can filter the noise. Don't filter enough and it will not be good. Filter too much and it can constrict the sound. This is why you get so many opinions because the grid in an apt in the city is different from the grid in a cabin in the mountains, etc. If you watch this video you can measure the difference:

LOL that silly video of Danny's again. This is a great thread on that silliness https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/do-audiophile-cables-matter-heres-proof-by-danny-richie.14438/

 

[CreoleDC]

So if you see members here losing it over cables you can understand, there is no universal cable just as there is no universal grid, universal power supply, universal receiver, etc. I think where haters lose it is not the fact that cables can impact your system, it is the price issue.ie, you will get "ripped off". Fair point. I always order from companies that have a return policy and if it doesn't work for me, I ship it back.

That's just good business sense when purchasing home electronic products. That is one of the reasons some many AH members, respond to new members when they ask where or who should I buy from. Most all AH members recommend research, buy from a reputable online dealer or brick and mortar or a online store with a good return policy. I ran across ASR comments that was posted up on his website sometime ago but went reread fron the link that HD posted up. @witchdoctor

Now @gene has proven with scientific facts those cables will do nothing more than drain one's bank account. Cable's as "Tone Controls" it is medically proven with facts everyone's hearing is not the same especially as we get older. I have probably by now 5% hearing drop in my left ear at 5k hz plus on my good day's if I'm not suffering from my tendonitis, which isn't many these days. Maybe one or two days out of a week if I'm lucky. Those days are golden Bliss. That's the time I'll set down and do critical music listening, on my HT setup. Enjoy your hobby.

 

[OHMisback]

There are two transducers between your records and your ears, in a TT setup. The cart and the speaker drivers. The things left are caps,
resistors, diodes, wire, cables and a few more nick nacks and CHIPS (Can't forget those pesky suckers). I'm a tube guy so complicated
doesn't come to mind. I do use a bias PCBs with a couple eproms that are for health lights on Cary valve units. Unplug the board and use
a DMM it works just fine.

Which component DOESN'T affect the sound? Can't leave out the wire used inside the box. It's a SONIC upgrade on 1/2 my gear
to go to Kimber cable INSIDE and the unbiblical cable between the PS case and I/O case. It wasn't my idea, it was the designers/owner.
He sold units a few different ways.

High quality cable does not cost a fortune and you can DIY and make as good as any you can buy. In the same breath if you pay 25 cents
a foot for #18PVC/Vinyl aluminum with copper clad, you deserve what you get and you over paid too boot. You CAN have your cake and
eat it too.

Different topic:

Danny's test about speaker cable is talking about heavy RFI EFI like the old days of CHP with ham units in their cars or Tractors with CBs.
Those CB could light up 80 watt fluorescent tubes 3 feet away when they key up. They use to drive buy and climb over the top of valve gear.
Every now and then I hear a hot rod ham or CB come through. They rerouted the truck route and cops don't use ham any more. Where is the
noise coming from? The wire feed welder next door?

I remember when Danny first started, he has grown a lot through the years. It's a good quality. I sure like his subs and he is EASY to communicate
with. Nothing uneasy about his manner OR any of the guys that support the product. The video is kinda 101, copyright 1920s. The funny part that
was covered in my 3rd or 4th grade science class in the early 60s, Mrs. Brown. She was 1000 years old then, she would be 2000 years old now.
Not everybody is as well educated as others, let's put it that way. Danny covers some interesting information.
A lot of loyal followers too, they like Danny. If you meet him, he's hard not to like. Kind of a disarming fellow..

 

[CreoleDC]

There are two transducers between your records and your ears, in a TT setup. The cart and the speaker drivers. The things left are caps,
resistors, diodes, wire, cables and a few more nick nacks and CHIPS (Can't forget those pesky suckers). I'm a tube guy so complicated
doesn't come to mind. I do use a bias PCBs with a couple eproms that are for health lights on Cary valve units. Unplug the board and use
a DMM it works just fine.

Which component DOESN'T affect the sound? Can't leave out the wire used inside the box. It's a SONIC upgrade on 1/2 my gear
to go to Kimber cable INSIDE and the unbiblical cable between the PS case and I/O case. It wasn't my idea, it was the designers/owner.
He sold units a few different ways.

High quality cable does not cost a fortune and you can DIY and make as good as any you can buy. In the same breath if you pay 25 cents
a foot for #18PVC/Vinyl aluminum with copper clad, you deserve what you get and you over paid too boot. You CAN have your cake and
eat it too.

Different topic:

Danny's test about speaker cable is talking about heavy RFI EFI like the old days of CHP with ham units in their cars or Tractors with CBs.
Those CB could light up 80 watt fluorescent tubes 3 feet away when they key up. They use to drive buy and climb over the top of valve gear.
Every now and then I hear a hot rod ham or CB come through. They rerouted the truck route and cops don't use ham any more. Where is the
noise coming from? The wire feed welder next door?

I remember when Danny first started, he has grown a lot through the years. It's a good quality. I sure like his subs and he is EASY to communicate
with. Nothing uneasy about his manner OR any of the guys that support the product. The video is kinda 101, copyright 1920s. The funny part that
was covered in my 3rd or 4th grade science class in the early 60s, Mrs. Brown. She was 1000 years old then, she would be 2000 years old now.
Not everybody is as well educated as others, let's put it that way. Danny covers some interesting information.
A lot of loyal followers too, they like Danny. If you meet him, he's hard not to like. Kind of a disarming fellow..

Can't say I don't disagree with some of your comments in your post. Yeah I agree audio is very suggestive. Now days, ever since LED/LCD, Plasma and king OLED tvs have to throw these in on the very subjectiveness subject. Enjoy your hobby. I do miss my tube amp. Something about those low Amber red bulbs while spinning vinyl, don't forget those watt meters.

 

[mono-bloc]

So let me get this correct, If I buy a high quality, high priced power lead, and plug it Into my jug. Will it boil water faster then the two dollar lead I got with the jug. ?

 

[witchdoctor]

So let me get this correct, If I buy a high quality, high priced power lead, and plug it Into my jug. Will it boil water faster then the two dollar lead I got with the jug. ?

Only if you add bourbon too it

 

[OHMisback]

So let me get this correct, If I buy a high quality, high priced power lead, and plug it Into my jug. Will it boil water faster then the two dollar lead I got with the jug. ?

You were ok right up to the price part. It can actually cost less for better cable components, and no it won't boil the water faster.
The water will TASTE a whole lot better though. LOL.

 

[OHMisback]

Something about those low Amber red bulbs while spinning vinyl, don't forget those watt meters.

I use Peachtree Gan 400/200 or Nord NC500 One Ups, in the hot summer months where I live along with a MX121/C2500.
I use to be able to handle the heat, not now. May - Oct.

l start my listening season again. The end of Oct - May. I did a lot of work on my Cary SLP-05, I need to listen to it for a while. I went with
Kimber cabling, tinned copper caps in and out and alu/teflon for the balanced section. I added frequency collection caps (by pass) to all 6 coupling caps.
Replaced all the filter caps. I added a super rectifier from STL. STR-1002. 805 or 845 valves change the sound a lot more than you think.
This is on the POWER SUPPLY side and a preamp.

A lot valves over 50 when you figure in a phono preamp or two. Zero floor noise. I love the sound. It's akin to watching a fire in the fire place, the difference is
I don't have to stoke the fire or chop the wood.

I can listen for 2 hours with the Nord amps and about the same with the PT. With Mcintosh, Cary, Dodd, VTL (not co much), and a few AR products I
can concert for over 4 hours. I usually get hungry, before I get tired. I can't do it without 2-3 hours of vinyl either. Some is processed a little on the
78s (Puffin) and a tweak or two for RtR. Herron phono sections on the other hand, what a wonderful design and neutral sound. Decware, I have to
do a couple things. Quite preamps with a great RtR section for direct head playback. Easy to tweak.

WATTS, I earned every one I burn. Long live the dinosaur. Besides that, I use solar, have good insulation, and have used valves to heat the house for 30 years.
I pay attention to THEIR cost. Mercy.

I'm under 500.00 a year for my PGE. I use gas to cook and heat the rest of the home. My valve units stay on 50% of the time. Oct - May.

 

[witchdoctor]

Can anyone recommend an EMI/RFI meter? I see devices that do it and am thinking about getting one. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Electricity-Meter-Trifield-Analyzer/dp/B083PZ7JR3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OM6IJIH96LPB&keywords=green+emi+noise&qid=1661044871&sprefix=green+emi+noise+%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-1

 

[lovinthehd]

Can anyone recommend an EMI/RFI meter? I see devices that do it and am thinking about getting one. For example:

https://www.amazon.com/Dirty-Electricity-Meter-Trifield-Analyzer/dp/B083PZ7JR3/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OM6IJIH96LPB&keywords=green+emi+noise&qid=1661044871&sprefix=green+emi+noise+%2Caps%2C163&sr=8-1

Seriously? So wacko....

 

[Speedskater]

While it doesn't happen often these days, speaker cables can act as interference antennas!
Audio Engineering Society interference expert Jim Brown writes about the problem in several of his papers.

Audio Systems Group, Inc. Publications

www.audiosystemsgroup.com

 

[witchdoctor]

Thanks for posting this speedskater, it seems braid shielded cables have a definite advantage:

http://www.audiosystemsgroup.com/AES-SCIN-ASGWeb.pdf

 

[witchdoctor]

I found a brand Gene recommends:

Shielded Audio Cables Offer Quality without Snake Oil

If you're looking for high end 'snake oil free' speaker cables, check out Shielded Audio. This family run business prides itself on quality engineered audio cables without the nonsense.

www.audioholics.com

 

[OHMisback]

I thought you could use an old transistor radio to pick up the source of RFI. EFI RFI are close EFI covers a broader spectrum (I think)? I'm a mechanic.
I fixed stuff, I don't invent stuff to often. I know a little radio can pick up a transducer (speaker) if someone has a bug (speaker) or transmitter. Like
hiding speakers and spooking people remotely. Flat country with a sufficient antenna, 5 watts can wreak havoc if it's not filtered on both ends. A lot of
watts can fry something (like your tube amp) if it stays keyed up in close proximity. I use to see it in DOT tractors when guys would slip seat.
The feed wire wasn't dedicated or big enough. It would shut the whole tractor down behind a stupid CB radio.

You can make a noise sniffer for working on units with transformers, valves, chokes, etc. It sends a tone back when it detect fields being to close causing
issues. The guy referenced it in a video about lowering the noise level on Cary SixPacs.

. Mr Carlson.
Good tech. I have those amps already modified. Small foot print valve amps. Dead quiet too.

 

[gene]

That is a great question and I appreciate your response. Wires can act like antennas and pick up noise, with the proper wires you can filter the noise. Don't filter enough and it will not be good. Filter too much and it can constrict the sound. This is why you get so many opinions because the grid in an apt in the city is different from the grid in a cabin in the mountains, etc. If you watch this video you can measure the difference:

Complete nonsense. Once the speaker cable is terminated to a low impedance load (aka. Speaker), the antenna effect is eliminated.

 

[gene]

I found a brand Gene recommends:

Shielded Audio Cables Offer Quality without Snake Oil

If you're looking for high end 'snake oil free' speaker cables, check out Shielded Audio. This family run business prides itself on quality engineered audio cables without the nonsense.

www.audioholics.com

They are out of business.

 

[witchdoctor]

Complete nonsense. Once the speaker cable is terminated to a low impedance load (aka. Speaker), the antenna effect is eliminated.

You said you were not taking Danny up on his invitation to visit. I hope you interview him instead then for another video in the future. I know you are busy hosting the panel on room acoustics for the show this week-end, maybe sometime next quarter.

 

[witchdoctor]

They are out of business.

Do you plan any other cable or power conditioner reviews in the future? Can members send you gear to review?

 

[witchdoctor]

I have to ask, how can a speaker cable reduce noise? I use 12AWG oxygen free, shielded Mediabridge 15-ft, oh with bananas on the end didn't pay that much about 80 bucks for 3 of those. Before I use the clear coated regular 12AWG oxygen free I just cut off about 1/2 to expose the copper wire, used the nuts tighten down Walla. No difference in sound quality whatsoever between the two cables I just wanted the convenience of the Mediabridge cables with the bananas. Nicer cables those Mediabridge construction wise. But you like your cable's I'm not going to hate on you because of how much you paid for those cables. Your money your hobby. I just don't believe between your speaker cables and mine it would make any difference in sound quality. I just don't see that happening.

Here is another resource from a peer reviewed white paper that there are
"clear systematic differences in the electrical performance of interconnect cables of different grades" .
At the end of the day I wouldn't buy a cable because a peer reviewed paper says it will improve audio performance. I buy it because I like it. The flip side I must admit is that other members can read the same research and NOT buy it because they DON'T like it.
But at the end of the day, their IS an "astonishing" (as Danny would say) difference:

An Electrical Study of Single Ended Analog Interconnect Cables
IOSR Journal of Electronics and Communication Engineering e-ISSN: 2278-2834, p-SSN: 2278-8735.Volume 16, Issue 6, Series I (Nov. – Dec. 2021), pp. 40-53

http://boson.physics.sc.edu/~kunchur/papers/Interconnect-cable-measurements--Kunchur.pdf