Onkyo TX-RZ50 & Dialog Adjustment

[XenoChron]

I went from a Yamaha TSR-700/V6A to an Onkyo TX-RZ50 and the Yamaha had a dialog adjustment in the setup that, from what I understand, adjusted the dialog track/channel in Dolby content so you could boost it if it was hard to hear.

I do NOT see that type of adjustment on the RZ50. Is the DIALOG button the remote for the tonal adjustment the same thing? I couldn't tell looking at the manual if it is like an old bass/mid/treble control whereby dialog is the MID here or if it really was a boost of individual dialog info on Dolby content. When I make the adjustment it does help but my feeling (and it is only that) is that it makes adjustments to more than just the one channel.

Does anyone know for sure?

 

[Replicant 7]

That's a umm, much better AVR you went with over that Yamaha V6A/TSR-700. You gotta post up your thoughts on it. If it would've been out at the time when I was looking to upgrade I would have given it a spin for sure. But can't help with the dialog thing you're asking about. Congratulations on a nice upgrade. On a side note about dialog adjustment. I'm not a fan of using that, at least for me anyways. I've used it on my RX-A4A didn't like it, from what I can tell all it did was spread the dialog to my LCR channels. So I don't use it at all, I just give my center channel a 1.5 level boost. I believe even Gene recommends a db boost of the center channel. It's a preference of choice though.
Oh photos please! Or it didn't happen. You know already we on AH love audio porn photos!! dare you to take photos with the hood off!

 

[Trebdp83]

Are you speaking of the "VOCAL" button on the remote controller? If so, that is for Onkyo's own version of center spread. They got around the Dolby lockdown by calling it something else altogether. It actually spreads dialogue out to the fronts as you raise the level and is not ideal for movies but is nice for some music tracks that are in Atmos or have been up mixed.

If you just want to raise center volume by itself, press the Quick Menu button on the remote controller. A small menu will appear in the right lower corner of your screen. There should be four or more selections with "LEVEL" at the bottom of the list. Select it and then select "CENTER" from the new list that appears. You can then adjust the level of the center channel on its own. If you still aren't satisfied with the sound with the increased volume, you can try adjusting the EQ just for the center channel itself. Though, that may be trickier to do than it is with lower ACCUEQ models.

 

[Replicant 7]

Here, I'll start you off with one pulled from the web. ASR did a very detailed, testing of your AVR. It's definitely much better spec's than your TSR-700/V6A Yammy.

Couldn't get the whole pic in upload was to large.

 

[XenoChron]

Here, I'll start you off with one pulled from the web. ASR did a very detailed, testing of your AVR. It's definitely much better spec's than your TSR-700/V6A Yammy.
View attachment 57225
Couldn't get the whole pic in upload was to large.

Well here it. It’s real.

Haven’t cracked it open and need to raise that shelf above up to get some airflow there but works great.

I know next to nothing about configuring Dirac so my first pass I believe gimped the bass a bit but I think that has to do with how the target curves are configured. I need to look around a bit and see if there are some good tips on Dirac here in the forum.

I did feel like the speaker and positioning is a bit more invisible if that makes sense and the bass seems tighter vs the 700/V6A. Still have more experimenting to do.


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[XenoChron]

Are you speaking of the "VOCAL" button on the remote controller? If so, that is for Onkyo's own version of center spread. They got around the Dolby lockdown by calling it something else altogether. It actually spreads dialogue out to the fronts as you raise the level and is not ideal for movies but is nice for some music tracks that are in Atmos or have been up mixed.

That explains a lot of what I was seeing when I used that feature. It seemed like center channel dialog was bleeding into the left and right channel and now I know why. I’ll try just boosting the center level in the future. I felt like I had pretty good luck with the dialog boost on the V6A so was expecting something similar here.


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[Replicant 7]

Well here it. It’s real.

Haven’t cracked it open and need to raise that shelf above up to get some airflow there but works great.

I know next to nothing about configuring Dirac so my first pass I believe gimped the bass a bit but I think that has to do with how the target curves are configured. I need to look around a bit and see if there are some good tips on Dirac here in the forum.

I did feel like the speaker and positioning is a bit more invisible if that makes sense and the bass seems tighter vs the 700/V6A. Still have more experimenting to do.


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Niiice!! Maybe get with @Pogre or @PENG they'll know of Dirac, Adyssey they are gurus when it comes to using those. I do like the feature set of your RZ50. You definitely stepped up your AVR for sure. It has a lot of flagship creature features. Bigger power supply, bigger Caps. Whole bunch of goodies that the Yamaha TSR-700/V6A didn't have. I like the anesthetics of your RZ50 over my RX-A4A. The display is much nicer in my opinion. I do believe your going to really enjoy that RZ50 it's definitely a level above coming from your TSR-700. On a side note, yeah I do Not like the display of my RX-A4A at all. After almost 8 months with it, I do Not like the front little display. It is Not User Friendly! Hopefully Yamaha will do something about that on their next models. That's why I been posting up the front display of Rotels 1580. Rotel did justice with their front display on that model. Enjoy bro! Congratulations again on a nice upgrade! Keep us posted of your thoughts as you dig into of using your new AVR, with movies and music.

 

[XenoChron]

One thing I like and one thing I miss:

Using the onscreen menus actually works with Dolby vision content on the RZ50. The Yamaha blanked the screen with DV to display menus.

Yamaha however did have this test nice level display on the front that showed what channels were operating and if audio being sent to them. I really appreciated that especially when seeing if front heights were actually being used at all on content. Some things it’s obvious but the subtle stuff the display helped with. I suppose though if you can’t hear it what does it matter.

Finally, Dirac did take a LOT longer to setup and calibrate. I used the Mac based software and a Umik mic. Initially I could NOT get the included Mic to work at all with the iOS app. I kept getting level errors. If I recall it kept saying the levels were too high and I really couldn’t figure out how to get past it. Using the software with the Umik I’m sure was better but reviews say how simple the app and Dirac is to setup initially with iOS and that was not my experience at al.


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[Replicant 7]

One thing I like and one thing I miss:

Using the onscreen menus actually works with Dolby vision content on the RZ50. The Yamaha blanked the screen with DV to display menus.

Yamaha however did have this test nice level display on the front that showed what channels were operating and if audio being sent to them. I really appreciated that especially when seeing if front heights were actually being used at all on content. Some things it’s obvious but the subtle stuff the display helped with. I suppose though if you can’t hear it what does it matter.

Finally, Dirac did take a LOT longer to setup and calibrate. I used the Mac based software and a Umik mic. Initially I could NOT get the included Mic to work at all with the iOS app. I kept getting level errors. If I recall it kept saying the levels were too high and I really couldn’t figure out how to get past it. Using the software with the Umik I’m sure was better but reviews say how simple the app and Dirac is to setup initially with iOS and that was not my experience at al.


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Well, umm yeah, ok I'll admit I do like that about the Yamaha front display. But Umm cleaning or just lightly wiping down while the units on and you hit those lil soft touch buttons and all things get All whacked out! Start trying to dail in where you where, source sound field etc. I'm like WTF! Yamaha! Gotta pull up the OSD to see WTF, I just changed and why turning that lil knob to the right is soo frustrating!. God help you if you accidentally push it in than your in something you never intended to go into in the first place. Not user friendly at least not for me. But Umm you digging that RZ50 huh?

 

[Trebdp83]

The Onkyo has boxes on its front panel display to indicate the active channels, though they are small. Pressing the info button ( i ) on the remote control brings up the input, output and sound mode information on the TV screen as well as the video signal information and network information. Don’t forget to download the controller app and use the web setup feature as some settings can only be found there.

 

[TLS Guy]

We get these center speaker problems again and again. The reason, I'm pretty sure is poor speaker design and resulting sub standard performance. One of the best loudspeaker tests is whether not it can reproduce easily intelligible natural speech. Far too many speakers fail this test. In this day and age that is a total disgrace.

All my three systems produce clear natural human speech without shout or sibilance, with NO boost to the center level. No Eq is used either. Heck, I can hear my wife playing our great room system at normal levels on the upstairs landing one floor above. Every word I can hear clearly. Unless you are in a room with the acoustic of a public lavatory, that should be a universal rule and requirement. If you hear people normally in your listeningroom, then you should hear speech from your speakers equally well.

In the time I have had home theater, I am yet to have any family or friends complain that they can not hear or understand the dialog.

People should expect and demand more of speaker manufacturers. A speaker that can not reproduce clear and natural speech is a BAD speaker period.

If you can not demo a speaker and buy on line, and it does not meet this basic requirement, then send it back, with a cryptic note: - "Not fit for purpose."

This is been a frequent complaint for years now, and members here should not tolerate it. With the myriad of design and testing programs, there is just no excuse for it.

 

[XenoChron]

I find the dialog clarity varies greatly from source to source. Some movies are great and others majorly crap the bed. Compensating with the dialog boost or center channel level is only method that seems to work. Tenant case and point…sucky dialog. Some movies get it right and others just plain stink at it. People doing the audio on these things need to spend more time listening to their sources particularly when the background music or effects overwhelm the dialog. I’ve had the same issues on occasion in the theater.


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[XenoChron]

The Onkyo has boxes on its front panel display to indicate the active channels, though they are small. Pressing the info button ( i ) on the remote control brings up the input, output and sound mode information on the TV screen as well as the video signal information and network information. Don’t forget to download the controller app and use the web setup feature as some settings can only be found there.

I logged into the web interface and didn’t see much other than network controls and was disappointed. These additional features you speak of are only accessible through the controller app? I’ll have to give it a try and see what’s there. I was really disappointed in the web interface so I’ll take another look at it and see if missed something. All I saw was network setup info and device info to set name and login password or so a firmware update.


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[Trebdp83]

You need to type in 192.168.xx.xxx/websetup to access the full websetup feature and not just the network setup.

 

[XenoChron]

You need to type in 192.168.xx.xxx/websetup to access the full websetup feature and not just the network setup.

Ooooh! Well thank you! What’s the point of them hiding that interface?? That makes no sense at all but I’ll give that a try.


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[XenoChron]

Well websetup doesn’t appear to work for me. I can go to my ip of 192.168.1.49 and see the network
Setup but adding /websetup to it returns a 404 error.

I messed with it a bit more and discovered with me entering admin for id and admin for pw it didn’t give the full interface. You can go to the IP address directly and enter user ciuser and pw ciuser and now I get the full interface.

Appreciate you confirming there was more there I’d have never found it otherwise.


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[Trebdp83]

Sorry, forgot to mention using "ciuser" for username and password. I just left it and didn't change it. Look for the "Limit Mode" features list for settings that aren't found in the TV setup menu.

 

[XenoChron]

Sorry, forgot to mention using "ciuser" for username and password. I just left it and didn't change it. Look for the "Limit Mode" features list for settings that aren't found in the TV setup menu.

Don't ask me where I got admin/admin from but I think I just tried that to start and it worked so I assumed it was right.

Definitely helps simplify things when you can see everything all at once on the web. You can even backup and print the config which is pretty sweet if you want to experiment a bit.

 

[Trebdp83]

There are some cool features. Just remember to store any changes and have it confirm them or changes won't keep.

 

[Trebdp83]

Oh, and don't hit recall configuration by mistake or the receiver powers off and on again and things can get wacky.