WOW the Emotiva T3+ looks impressive!

[MalVeauX]

It’s going to have all the flaws common to horizontal alignment of so many drivers.
Revel has shown that you can 4 woofs well as long as you do the tm in the middle.
This just feels like another center gimmick.

Boo, probably is just a huge gimmick, but was hoping. Can't hope for much, sub-$1k and that large, and free shipping? Has junk inside.

I'd take Kef Q950s all day everyday over any Emotiva tower. But, I like my Kefs. They do things in my room that no other speaker I've tried does. Once you experience the massive soundstage that Kefs provide (in my room) there is no way I'd ever go back to a speaker with such a limited listening area such as the Emos.

Floor and ceiling reflections can be used for an advantage if the speaker is designed properly. IMO of course. YMMV.

I have been interested in the larger KEF towers like that. Especially with coaxial driver. I mostly favor big stereo towers with no sub for my non-theater rooms. Ultimately I just would rather get some Philharmonic BMR Towers at $4kish, but for the other rooms (like for the kids and wife) they don't need that stuff, they enjoy full range sound but otherwise are not too concerned with quality since Thomas cartoons cap out at some point....

Very best,

 

[acepaul]

I'd take Kef Q950s all day everyday over any Emotiva tower. But, I like my Kefs. They do things in my room that no other speaker I've tried does. Once you experience the massive soundstage that Kefs provide (in my room) there is no way I'd ever go back to a speaker with such a limited listening area such as the Emos.

Floor and ceiling reflections can be used for an advantage if the speaker is designed properly. IMO of course. YMMV.

I have had a KEF Q series home theater for a couple years now. Q950 LR, Q650c center, Q350 SR SL BR BL, Ci200QR Round x4 height. I upgraded to Emotiva amps last year to power everything and decided to order a C2+ center just for kicks as I found the Q650c lacking in some areas after adding the better amplification. We did numerous A/B testing and all I can say is the Q650c is collecting dust in the corner and the C2+ owns the prominent spot below the projector screen. The theater room is 20x16 with 9' ceilings. Carpet but I have not installed the wall or ceiling treatments yet. Don't get me wrong, the Q650c is a good speaker, it just could not handle some of the more demanding -5db to reference level movies.
Amps are as follows:
XPA-DR3 LRC
XPA-5 Gen 3 main surrounds (one channel free)
XPA-5 Gen 3 height (one channel free)
One advantage of the Emotiva is a true 3-way design instead of the 2.5 that Kef has. I'm also not quite sold on the sealed design with only one active bass driver for both the 650 and 950. Passive rads have their place but it seems to cap the output a bit. And then there is 4 ohms vs 8...
The C3+ is a tempting offer. Can't wait to see some real world reviews.

 

[kini]

I have had a KEF Q series home theater for a couple years now. Q950 LR, Q650c center, Q350 SR SL BR BL, Ci200QR Round x4 height. I upgraded to Emotiva amps last year to power everything and decided to order a C2+ center just for kicks as I found the Q650c lacking in some areas after adding the better amplification. We did numerous A/B testing and all I can say is the Q650c is collecting dust in the corner and the C2+ owns the prominent spot below the projector screen. The theater room is 20x16 with 9' ceilings. Carpet but I have not installed the wall or ceiling treatments yet. Don't get me wrong, the Q650c is a good speaker, it just could not handle some of the more demanding -5db to reference level movies.
Amps are as follows:
XPA-DR3 LRC
XPA-5 Gen 3 main surrounds (one channel free)
XPA-5 Gen 3 height (one channel free)
One advantage of the Emotiva is a true 3-way design instead of the 2.5 that Kef has. I'm also not quite sold on the sealed design with only one active bass driver for both the 650 and 950. Passive rads have their place but it seems to cap the output a bit. And then there is 4 ohms vs 8...
The C3+ is a tempting offer. Can't wait to see some real world reviews.

What crossover are you using for the center? I use 100hz and have never had a problem at any volume though I don't find it necessary to listen at -5db since I sit 8' from the center.

The Q650 and 950 (I have 750s) have 2 bass drivers. Both operate until 500hz then the upper one continues on till it crosses over to the tweeter.

I briefly demoed the C2+ and found it to be OK with the one exception that it "beams". Content was always coming from below the screen. Almost no ventriloquist effect and if I laid down on the sofa it affected the sound. With the Kef it doesn't matter where my ears are it still sounds good and can project voices exactly where they need to be.

 

[ryanosaur]

What crossover are you using for the center? I use 100hz and have never had a problem at any volume though I don't find it necessary to listen at -5db since I sit 8' from the center.

The Q650 and 950 (I have 750s) have 2 bass drivers. Both operate until 500hz then the upper one continues on till it crosses over to the tweeter.

I briefly demoed the C2+ and found it to be OK with the one exception that it "beams". Content was always coming from below the screen. Almost no ventriloquist effect and if I laid down on the sofa it affected the sound. With the Kef it doesn't matter where my ears are it still sounds good and can project voices exactly where they need to be.

There is strangely a similar conversation over on the ASR C3 thread. Just looking at directivity plots tells the story about how these Speakers perform. It's not guess work.

I get that the EMO Speakers can sound good, but they do not exhibit even directivity characteristics in any way.

 

[acepaul]

What crossover are you using for the center? I use 100hz and have never had a problem at any volume though I don't find it necessary to listen at -5db since I sit 8' from the center.

The Q650 and 950 (I have 750s) have 2 bass drivers. Both operate until 500hz then the upper one continues on till it crosses over to the tweeter.

I briefly demoed the C2+ and found it to be OK with the one exception that it "beams". Content was always coming from below the screen. Almost no ventriloquist effect and if I laid down on the sofa it affected the sound. With the Kef it doesn't matter where my ears are it still sounds good and can project voices exactly where they need to be.

LRC is currently set at 90Hz. I never had a problem with the 650 until I upgraded to real amplification. The clarity and punch became very amazing but the center driver would get pushed beyond its limits in certain scenarios. Try the beginning of Valerian when the space battle debris is entering the atmosphere.

As far as "beaming" goes, I don't seem to have an issue with it as I tilt my center slightly so the tweeter is aimed close to ear level. I did not notice a significant difference between the 650c and the C2+ in this regard. Room properties may have a significant impact on this.

Yes, you are correct about the drivers in the Q950 and 970. I guess I was talking strictly about bass only drivers, not the bass/mid combo (hence the 2.5 vs 3 way). I honestly considered trying to come up with a different crossover for the 650c as the bass directed to to the UNi-Q driver is what causes it to fail. Limiting it to 200Hz and above would fix most the issues (turning it into a true 3 way). The 950 can have the same issue but it seems you have to push it a little harder to get to that point.

What I find truly amazing is how well the C2+ blends with the Q series. I really thought that would be an issue.

 

[Danzilla31]

There is strangely a similar conversation over on the ASR C3 thread. Just looking at directivity plots tells the story about how these Speakers perform. It's not guess work.

I get that the EMO Speakers can sound good, but they do not exhibit even directivity characteristics in any way.

Yeah the only speakers that Emo makes that measure well are the towers the T1 and T2+

That's why I'm hoping the T3+ keep that trend going. Lot of tower for a more budget minded buyer if they measure well.

All of they're center speakers are going to measure off except maybe the C1+ it has the traditional better center channel design. Wish instead of going 2 mids they would have just done one bigger mid on the c2+

But if the tweeter is rotatable and the c3+ can be mounted vertically behind say an AT screen that could be a good potential setup for a budget buyer as well

 

[Danzilla31]

So I found out from a buyer on the AVS thread that the tweeter on the c3+ can be unscrewed and rotated so you can mount them vertical

I looked on there site and they are asking tho $900 for that center I get it inflation and riding interest rates and all that but that's the same price as one of there T3+ towers the price was initially listed as lower little turned off now by that price man

If they ever go on a sale someday we'll just have to see

 

[marcusmcmurray]

What I find truly amazing is how well the C2+ blends with the Q series. I really thought that would be an issue.

100% agree. I’ve used it with the T0+, Infinity R263 and currently with Monolith 465 and it blended well with them all

 

[Danzilla31]

100% agree. I’ve used it with the T0+, Infinity R263 and currently with Monolith 465 and it blended well with them all

Are those the Monolith 465 in walls? How are you enjoying those? I'm curious about those speakers

 

[kini]

LRC is currently set at 90Hz. I never had a problem with the 650 until I upgraded to real amplification. The clarity and punch became very amazing but the center driver would get pushed beyond its limits in certain scenarios. Try the beginning of Valerian when the space battle debris is entering the atmosphere.

As far as "beaming" goes, I don't seem to have an issue with it as I tilt my center slightly so the tweeter is aimed close to ear level. I did not notice a significant difference between the 650c and the C2+ in this regard. Room properties may have a significant impact on this.

Yes, you are correct about the drivers in the Q950 and 970. I guess I was talking strictly about bass only drivers, not the bass/mid combo (hence the 2.5 vs 3 way). I honestly considered trying to come up with a different crossover for the 650c as the bass directed to to the UNi-Q driver is what causes it to fail. Limiting it to 200Hz and above would fix most the issues (turning it into a true 3 way). The 950 can have the same issue but it seems you have to push it a little harder to get to that point.

What I find truly amazing is how well the C2+ blends with the Q series. I really thought that would be an issue.

That doesn't make much sense since the AVR will run out of steam earlier and start clipping. Just how loud are you listening? I had to run my Q750s (same bass/mid-range as the Q650) to -4db (with music so doesn't always correlate) and full range to get the mid-range driver to misbehave. It was really loud. Well beyond what I would normally listen at.

Also, if you look at the compression data from EAC tests you'll see that neither the C2+ and Q650 are great but the Q650 actually performs a little better over the entire range. At least that's my interpretation of the data.

 

[marcusmcmurray]

No, the towers and I like them. They are dynamic, can play uncomfortably loud without breaking up/straining and sound clean. Dialogue intelligibility is fantastic.

From my experience Emo is punchier with a heavier presentation; these are cleaner and livelier

 

[acepaul]

That doesn't make much sense since the AVR will run out of steam earlier and start clipping. Just how loud are you listening? I had to run my Q750s (same bass/mid-range as the Q650) to -4db (with music so doesn't always correlate) and full range to get the mid-range driver to misbehave. It was really loud. Well beyond what I would normally listen at.

Also, if you look at the compression data from EAC tests you'll see that neither the C2+ and Q650 are great but the Q650 actually performs a little better over the entire range. At least that's my interpretation of the data.

A few things of note. Yes, home theater can be much more dynamic and demanding than listening to music. I could listen to music all day at even uncomfortably loud listening levels and the KEF speakers would be just fine. With home theater, you tend to listen closer to reference levels which tends to deliver some very impactful extremes.

Also, the only thing my AVR does is decode the audio and send low level signals to my amps. My LCR channels are run by an Emotiva XPA-DR3 amp. 450 RMS watts per channel. I would fry the KEF's well before any clipping occurred. Running separates certainly made for a much more dynamic experience but also found the limits of the speakers. The particular issue was with the Uni-Q driver in the Q650 though I could get a touch of distortion in the Q950's too. If they had designed them with a 3-way crossover it would have solved the issue. But alas, one must step up to the R series to get a three way. $$$ I was not even that impressed when listening to them in the showroom so can't justify the high price point.

As far as the EAC tests go, I suppose it's good to take a look at that but the complexity of real world signals and use makes it hard to know exactly how a speaker will perform in any given arrangement. What amp? What signal? How is the EQ on the AVR set? Listening levels? Etc, etc. I guess sometimes we just have to put them through the ringer to see what happens.

One last thing, my home theater room is what I would consider medium to large for a home. 21'x16' with close to 9' ceilings. With that size you do need to crank it up a bit more.