Can we have a rational discussion about guns and why the typical arguments for gun control and its implementation won't work?

[MaxInValrico]

Already covered that and the scrutiny- I don't remember a gun that was designed to be fully automatic used in a mass shooting, either.

People who slipped through the cracks are the ones who can be considered the 'typical AR-style rifle mass murderer'.

Last fully auto mass shooting was likely back in the 30s when they were still fairly available. They were definitely used in the St. Valentine's Day Massacre.

 

[Dude#1279435]

What purpose does a huge collection of knives, antique weapons for battle like maces, spears, etc serve? It's really the same, but those work at close range.

They can be banned again- it won't matter unless they're collected, AKA 'confiscated'. These are used in less than 600 deaths/year- what do you want to do about the 45,000 who are killed with other weapons?

I imagine because you can't fire off multiple rounds of those at once.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Some interesting data in the link. Thankfully rifle deaths are low. Probably because you cannot travel and hide them as easily.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.

www.pewresearch.org

 

[Trell]

The pro-gun people should accept responsibility for supporting these deadly policies, and no, "thoughts and prayers" doesn't count.

Gun Violence Archive

www.gunviolencearchive.org

 

[panteragstk]

Does anyone here agree with the grand jury on this?

Mom blasts TX grand jury for DECLINING to indict man who killed girl

Gwen Alvarez said she didn't understand Tony Earls' 'innocence' while her daughter Arlene, 9, lays in a grave. 'He gets to see the light my daughter doesn't, my daughter is still dug down underground.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

This is why you should have to carry insurance as a gun owner. Not saying shootings that involve police never involve bystanders, but they are trained, the average person is not.

This should at a minimum go to a civil suit.

 

[highfigh]

I imagine because you can't fire off multiple rounds of those at once.

You can if you have big hands. Or, a lot of hands.

Ever see someone who's an expert in archery shooting at the rate of around one arrow every three seconds with good accuracy?

Unfortunately, even that wasn't a fast enough way to kill people.....

This guy is even faster than what I posted-

I think modern people underestimate how effective archery has been-

 

[highfigh]

Some interesting data in the link. Thankfully rifle deaths are low. Probably because you cannot travel and hide them as easily.

What the data says about gun deaths in the U.S.

More Americans died of gun-related injuries in 2021 than in any other year on record, according to the latest available statistics from the CDC.

www.pewresearch.org

The guy in Indiana hid his in a backpack, undetected. I wouldn't exactly call that "difficult to hide" and I have to wonder why malls don't have metal detectors.

 

[highfigh]

This is why you should have to carry insurance as a gun owner. Not saying shootings that involve police never involve bystanders, but they are trained, the average person is not.

This should at a minimum go to a civil suit.

That would make too much sense and if it requires verifiable proficiency to reduce premiums, people might just not buy it. Also, criminals and low income people wouldn't, for their own reasons- one just wouldn't and the other can't afford it. I think that ANYONE who is involved in illegal gun use should be dealt with much more harshly than they are. Once again, a shytebag in Milwaukee was let out because the WI criteria for bail don't involve seriousness of the offense unless they really go over the top. Recently, someone whose bail was reduced to $1000 killed two people in a short time, even though he wasn't supposed to have a gun. The bail is supposed to guarantee that the accused goes to court. That's the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard and personally, I think that court officials should be held liable if someone they release, who's known to be violent and dangerous, kills or injures someone.

Six Milwaukee County women dead from domestic violence in just two weeks

The victims range in age from 19 to 66 and are all women of color. In their honor, we need to make sure domestic violence is addressed in our community.

www.tmj4.com

Milwaukee murder suspect was out at the time after judge reduced previous bail to $1,000

MILWAUKEE (CBS 58) -- Another suspect allegedly committed violent crimes in Milwaukee while out on bail, and it's raising questions about how bond amounts are set.A Milwaukee man is accused of murde

www.cbs58.com

The 22 year old who stopped the Indiana mall shooter- 8 out of ten hits, from 40 yards, according to the reports I have seen. He stopped the guy within 15 seconds of the first rifle shot.

 

[Dude#1279435]

No worries. They're harmless.

 

[mtrycrafts]

No worries. They're harmless.
View attachment 57060

...

Until it gets sold.

 

[Trell]

Until it gets sold.

Or stolen by a stranger or their own troubled male teenager. It’s never a female teenager, is it?

 

[Dude#1279435]

LOL

 

[highfigh]

No worries. They're harmless.
View attachment 57060

View attachment 57061

They should be harmless- they're just people, after all.

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[Dude#1279435]

They should be harmless- they're just people, after all.

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As I've said before. Guns AND people are the problem. If it were only people, well lets open the market up to full autos, flame throwers, and grenade and missile launchers. Now I'm sure that's ridiculous in a way to say that, but lets think for a minute. Do we really need more semi's out there? I don't believe so, and it doesn't have to be via confiscation, which isn't realistic to begin with. Education, public service messages etc. Things that frankly could end up doing nothing but worth a try. Certainly better than doing nothing. Nobody that I'm aware of looks at the AR15 and thinks that is in any way normal when it comes to gun ownership.

 

[highfigh]

As I've said before. Guns AND people are the problem. If it were only people, well lets open the market up to full autos, flame throwers, and grenade and missile launchers. Now I'm sure that's ridiculous in a way to say that, but lets think for a minute. Do we really need more semi's out there? I don't believe so, and it doesn't have to be via confiscation, which isn't realistic to begin with. Education, public service messages etc. Things that frankly could end up doing nothing but worth a try. Certainly better than doing nothing. Nobody that I'm aware of looks at the AR15 and thinks that is in any way normal when it comes to gun ownership.

But you keep harping on getting rid of guns and never say anything about getting people to stop.

These rifles don't kill a lot of people in a year, but they strike fear into the hearts of people because they look menacing and because so many are killed in each event. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the number of shots/second that can be fired with an AR-style rifle and a pistol. The thing that makes it possible to continue firing is the magazine and if someone wants to keep up with a Glock, they can buy a 30 round mag or a drum, but those are illegal, so that immediately puts them in the 'criminal' category before they shoot anyone.

The last time these were illegal, it was only a few years before the components needed to assemble one became easily available, but again, the majority of shooters who use an AR is small and most have mental issues that weren't treated or noticed by their oh-so-caring families.

Who'll educate those who need to learn that killing is a terrible thing to do, or that it's illegal- the schools? BS! That needs to be done in the home but again, mentally ill people are usually the problem with the AR/AK style rifles. It's traumatic because larger numbers of people are killed but also, look are WHERE most mass-shootings occur- in places where guns were prohibited. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

If someone wants to change something that makes shootings easier, they need to get people to secure their damned guns.

Gun Thefts: Was 2020 the Worst Year on Record?

We dove into the ATF's files to look at gun thefts in the U.S. and find out whether 2020 saw more stolen guns than previous years.

www.pewpewtactical.com

 

[Dude#1279435]

But you keep harping on getting rid of guns and never say anything about getting people to stop.

These rifles don't kill a lot of people in a year, but they strike fear into the hearts of people because they look menacing and because so many are killed in each event. There is NO DIFFERENCE in the number of shots/second that can be fired with an AR-style rifle and a pistol. The thing that makes it possible to continue firing is the magazine and if someone wants to keep up with a Glock, they can buy a 30 round mag or a drum, but those are illegal, so that immediately puts them in the 'criminal' category before they shoot anyone.

The last time these were illegal, it was only a few years before the components needed to assemble one became easily available, but again, the majority of shooters who use an AR is small and most have mental issues that weren't treated or noticed by their oh-so-caring families.

Who'll educate those who need to learn that killing is a terrible thing to do, or that it's illegal- the schools? BS! That needs to be done in the home but again, mentally ill people are usually the problem with the AR/AK style rifles. It's traumatic because larger numbers of people are killed but also, look are WHERE most mass-shootings occur- in places where guns were prohibited. It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

If someone wants to change something that makes shootings easier, they need to get people to secure their damned guns.

Gun Thefts: Was 2020 the Worst Year on Record?

We dove into the ATF's files to look at gun thefts in the U.S. and find out whether 2020 saw more stolen guns than previous years.

www.pewpewtactical.com

Might have something to due with thinking AR15s are normal. As I've said, six shooter and shotguns. Not much practical reason to own em, except industry lingo. Beyond people with mental illness, gun culture might be the problem too. Plus the gun seller whose morals I can't imagine being too high LOL.

 

[Trell]

Might have something to due with thinking AR15s are normal. As I've said, six shooter and shotguns. Not much practical reason to own em, except industry lingo. Beyond people with mental illness, gun culture might be the problem too. Plus the gun seller whose morals I can't imagine being too high LOL.

Is this what the pro-gun people wants?

 

[highfigh]

Might have something to due with thinking AR15s are normal. As I've said, six shooter and shotguns. Not much practical reason to own em, except industry lingo. Beyond people with mental illness, gun culture might be the problem too. Plus the gun seller whose morals I can't imagine being too high LOL.

Money is a great motivator- "park your morals at the door and come on in", right?

Some people want to play Army, some want to be the 'Great White Hunter' and as we have mentioned, some have an odd obsession with guns, knives, truncheons, etc.

The gun culture without mental illness would probably be fine, even if most people can't understand the reasons for it.

 

[highfigh]

Is this what the pro-gun people wants?

View attachment 57092

If you even consider that as a possibility of what anyone in the US wants, you're a moron.

However, it looks like he has been trained on how to handle a gun- finger is outside of the trigger guard. So, that's a good thing, right?

Kids like that have known nothing BUT war, in their lives. The blame for that falls on their governments. It's highly likely that these kids lost their parents and either have nowhere to go or want revenge because they have nothing to live for. THAT'S the real tragedy.

 

[Trell]

And a kindergarten teacher carrying a gun while taking care of 5-years old. Is this the environment you want your children to grow up in?

Trained, Armed and Ready. To Teach Kindergarten. (Published 2022)

More school employees are carrying guns to defend against school shootings. In Ohio, a contentious new law requires no more than 24 hours of training.

www.nytimes.com