Buffalo

[BoredSysAdmin]

Oh For Duck's Sake:

Why New York's 'Assault Weapon' Ban Didn't Stop the Buffalo Massacre

The suspect in the mass shooting that killed 10 people at a Buffalo grocery store on Saturday used a rifle that was widely described as an "assault

reason.com

Why am I reading this and thinking Ex-Gov Coumo?

 

[highfigh]

Kinda surprised no one has posted anything in regards to this. I'm sure our gun nut/conservatives wouldn't particularly have anything to say, but.....just wondering how you view it. Truly a horrible thing especially since the mental illness had somewhat been recognized earlier.

You should really get a handle on yourself. Not all conservatives are gun nuts, not all think the way you assume.

This guy should have been checked out for deeper mental illness- he had made comments about murder and suicide when he was in high school, but they didn't think they were specific enough to act on.

As I posted yesterday, it's a great example of people who didn't know their kid but if they did, they're responsible, too.

 

[Danzilla31]

You should really get a handle on yourself. Not all conservatives are gun nuts, not all think the way you assume.

This guy should have been checked out for deeper mental illness- he had made comments about murder and suicide when he was in high school, but they didn't think they were specific enough to act on.

As I posted yesterday, it's a great example of people who didn't know their kid but if they did, they're responsible, too.

I was thinking the same thing too where we're the parents from what I've read I don't think he was working. If that's the case how'd he get the funds for all of this? That's another question too

 

[highfigh]

I was thinking the same thing too where we're the parents from what I've read I don't think he was working. If that's the case how'd he get the funds for all of this? That's another question too

His parents are Civil Engineers for the NY DOT and he had aspirations of becoming an engineer, too- I assume they have been pretty generous with money and obviously, too lenient.

 

[Mikado463]

You should really get a handle on yourself. Not all conservatives are gun nuts, not all think the way you assume.

This guy should have been checked out for deeper mental illness- he had made comments about murder and suicide when he was in high school, but they didn't think they were specific enough to act on.

As I posted yesterday, it's a great example of people who didn't know their kid but if they did, they're responsible, too.

Agreed, the state of NY F'd up on this as well ! As for 'Lovin' , his myopic vision has no hope !

Danzilla31, your posts are spot on, thank you !

 

[highfigh]

And not a word on AH about the shooting in the Laguna Woods church- Chinese man, according to one report I heard, did it because this is a Taiwanese congregation.

 

[mono-bloc]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's all very well saying what should have happened after the event. The facts speak for themselves. The question should be asked. How did a teenager acquire the weapon, How did he get the money to pay for it. And more importantly, why did the gun dealer sell to a teenager in the first place. OR if the gun was in the family home, why wasn't it secured safely I.e. A gun safe

 

[lovinthehd]

And not a word on AH about the shooting in the Laguna Woods church- Chinese man, according to one report I heard, did it because this is a Taiwanese congregation.

Just saw that one. Shooter was someone whose family was forced to emigrate from mainland to Taiwan long ago and apparently grew up with deep resentment of such,. A doctor tackled the guy after the shooting started and got himself killed in the process, but saved many lives doing so. Shooter went out of his way to find a group of (successfully retired for the most part) Taiwanese to hit, traveled from Las Vegas to SoCal to do so....

 

[highfigh]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. It's all very well saying what should have happened after the event. The facts speak for themselves. The question should be asked. How did a teenager acquire the weapon, How did he get the money to pay for it. And more importantly, why did the gun dealer sell to a teenager in the first place. OR if the gun was in the family home, why wasn't it secured safely I.e. A gun safe

At this point, I almost want to see how much people give their kids for allowance- do they just give them a credit card, or cash? With $100 cash advances, it doesn't take long to save $1500 for an AR, or buy the parts. If the parents work long hours, it would be easy to find hiding places and with cash, a storage unit would be a good place.

I saw a report that said he had the name of a Waukesha parade victims, as well as “Here’s your reparations” on the barrel.

I think access needs to change for this type of weapon. I'm tired of the arguments saying "If an 18 year old can go to war, they should be able to drink, smoke, buy guns, etc"- the 18 year olds who volunteer are often much more mature and they're a small minority of the whole population, so that particular argument is a sweeping generalization that's false.

 

[Hobbit]

If I can translate just a bit, the message from GOP politicians to voters is 'Get real angry. But don't expect us to do anything.'

Don't forget; and pray...

I also believe that comments from certain politicians have "enabled" these people. I personally know people who have always been racist bigots that have upped their game in letting people know their twisted views.

 

[Swerd]

All those are good questions.

How did a teenager acquire the weapon?

In the state of New York the existing laws allow an 18-year-old to buy guns without a permit. That kid bought weapons, a shotgun and a semi-automatic AR-15-style gun, an imitation military weapon, along with abundant ammunition and body armor. It was legal on paper, but clearly the wrong thing to do.

How did he get the money to pay for it?

According to newspaper accounts (this morning's Washington Post) he bought & sold silver coins to fund his purchases. I don't know how he got the starter cash to begin doing that.

And more importantly, why did the gun dealer sell to a teenager in the first place?

The existing laws allow that. Months earlier, while still in high school, he had been held, at the order of NY State Police, in a hospital mental facility under scrutiny for threatening to commit 'murder-suicide'. After a day and a half, he was released, apparently after lying his way out. The gun shop owner says he ran the kid's name through a required background check. After that check showed nothing to prevent the sale, he sold the gun to the kid. I don't understand whether New York state law includes such an episode as a reason to prevent him from buying guns.

Obviously, that background check failed to prevent a mass murderer from legally obtaining lethal weapons. It is common in the USA to run some kind of perfunctory background check before selling weapons, but most of them are designed to be more lip-service than effective. This is most often the result of undue political influence by the National Rifle Association, a political lobby group that claims to represent gun owners, but really represents gun manufacturers and sellers.

Or, if the gun was in the family home, why wasn't it secured safely, i.e. a gun safe?

The kid apparently lied to his parents about his plans and activities. He kept all his purchases hidden from them. After his high school episode, they might have sensed something wasn't right, but he kept them from knowing anything more incriminating.

I feel sorry for them. Most parents of teenagers in the US try their best to provide good examples for their kids as they grow up. And they hope their kids don't grow up to be axe murderers. In this case, their worst fears came true.

 

[adk highlander]

Don't forget; and pray...

I also believe that comments from certain politicians have "enabled" these people. I personally know people who have always been racist bigots that have upped their game in letting people know their twisted views.

Exactly. Anyone who says the right has not empowered these folks and tried to legitimize their voice to get their vote is either an idiot or one of them. Period.

 

[highfigh]

All those are good questions.
In the state of New York the existing laws allow an 18-year-old to buy guns without a permit. That kid bought weapons, a shotgun and a semi-automatic AR-15-style gun, an imitation military weapon, along with abundant ammunition and body armor. It was legal on paper, but clearly the wrong thing to do.
According to newspaper accounts (this morning's Washington Post) he bought & sold silver coins to fund his purchases. I don't know how he got the starter cash to begin doing that.
The existing laws allow that. Months earlier, while he was still in high school, he had been held in a hospital mental facility under scrutiny for threatening to commit 'murder-suicide'. After a day and a half, he was released, apparently after lying his way out. It is not clear, under New York state law, if this episode should have disqualified him from buying guns. The gun shop owner says he ran the kid's name through a required background check. After that check showed nothing to prevent the sale, he sold the gun to the kid. Obviously, that background check failed to prevent a mass murderer from legally obtaining lethal weapons. It is common in the USA to run some kind of perfunctory background check before selling weapons, but most of them are designed to be more lip-service than effective.
The kid apparently lied to his parents about his plans and activities. He kept all his purchases hidden from them. I feel sorry for them. After his high school episode, they might have sensed something wasn't right, but he kept them from knowing anything more incriminating.

Screw HIPAA (in this case)- mental health flags need to be available for NICS background checks.

Maybe gun sellers could ask leading questions or make comments, just to get the prospective buyer's blood boiling. If they go off, don't sell the weapon(s).

 

[Swerd]

I also believe that comments from certain politicians have "enabled" these people. I personally know people who have always been racist bigots that have upped their game in letting people know their twisted views.

Let's not also forget that the Murdoch's, who own Faux News, are directly guilty of spreading these false and malicious racist lies. They should not be protected by the 1st Amendment because this goes beyond any definition of protected free-speech.

 

[GO-NAD!]

And not a word on AH about the shooting in the Laguna Woods church- Chinese man, according to one report I heard, did it because this is a Taiwanese congregation.

Well, now there are words on it. Would you like to create a thread for every mass shooting in the US? You'll be a busy boy and there will be nothing else on AH.

 

[Mikado463]

Feel sorry for his parents ?? They are enabling, pathetic examples of parenting. So before anyone wants to blame the NRA, the Republicans or the Easter Bunny they would be best served to realize there was first and foremost an issue on the home front.

 

[Swerd]

Screw HIPAA (in this case)- mental health flags need to be available for NICS background checks.

That’s a terrible idea. The HIPAA Privacy Rule has strong safeguards that aren’t easily put aside:

The HIPAA Privacy Rule establishes national standards to protect individuals' medical records and other individually identifiable health information (collectively defined as “protected health information”) and applies to health plans, health care clearinghouses, and those health care providers that conduct certain health care transactions electronically. The Rule requires appropriate safeguards to protect the privacy of protected health information and sets limits and conditions on the uses and disclosures that may be made of such information without an individual’s authorization. The Rule also gives individuals rights over their protected health information, including rights to examine and obtain a copy of their health records, to direct a covered entity to transmit to a third party an electronic copy of their protected health information in an electronic health record, and to request corrections.

I can easily see mental health professionals refusing to comply with this, as it would interfere with their ability to establish trust with a patient.

This a job for police. And it would require some potent enforcement teeth, that don't exist today, before it could ever work. And if HIPAA privacy rules must be set aside to prevent gun sales to wing nuts, these laws have to be carefully written before medical people would cooperate in its enforcement. I doubt if the NRA-owned politicians would allow any such laws to come about.

Maybe gun sellers could ask leading questions or make comments, just to get the prospective buyer's blood boiling. If they go off, don't sell the weapon(s).

That’s another terrible idea. And if it was meant as a joke, it’s a terrible joke.

What you propose is to ask gun sellers to not only screen buyers, but to enforce the law. They would be the last people you’d want to do that. 1) They have a vested interest in making the sale, and 2) They’re not policemen. Don’t ask them to enforce the law. If the gun dealers were actually honest & law-abiding (not all are), screening for unqualified buyers might be dangerous work.

 

[highfigh]

That’s a terrible idea. The HIPAA Privacy Rule has strong safeguards that aren’t easily put aside:

I can easily see mental health professionals refusing to comply with this, as it would interfere with their ability to establish trust with a patient.

This a job for police. And it would require some potent enforcement teeth, that don't exist today, before it could ever work. And if HIPAA privacy rules must be set aside to prevent gun sales to wing nuts, these laws have to be carefully written before medical people would cooperate in its enforcement. I doubt if the NRA-owned politicians would allow any such laws to come about.
That’s another terrible idea. And if it was meant as a joke, it’s a terrible joke.

What you propose is to ask gun sellers to not only screen buyers, but to enforce the law. They would be the last people you’d want to do that. 1) They have a vested interest in making the sale, and 2) They’re not policemen. Don’t ask them to enforce the law. If the gun dealers were actually honest & law-abiding (not all are), screening for unqualified buyers might be dangerous work.

You seem to have missed where I typed (in this case), but I meant 'for the purpose of screening potential gun buyers'.

No joke, but the way it's done MUST NOT be usable for anything else as a way to violate their rights.

Gun sellers are already required to help screen buyers- if the gun is transferred between states, an FFL must be involved. If a gun is sold by a licensed dealer, an FFL must be used. Only private sales are exempt from this.

BTW- there's a charge when using an FFL and if gun dealers want more money, they can become one. I paid $25, but I'm pretty sure that has increased. Every sale- with the number of guns sold annually, that's a helluva lot of money to leave on the table.

 

[mono-bloc]

All those are good questions.

Thank you for your concise reply's to my questions. As you will have gathered I'm not American but Australian, and our laws regarding firearms are different to yours. From what I read and try to understand your National Rifle Association has a lot to answer for with regard to gun control. It would seem that they control sections of your government, Politicians, and anyone else who get in there way. By way of large voter blocks.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you for your concise reply's to my questions. As you will have gathered I'm not American but Australian, and our laws regarding firearms are different to yours. From what I read and try to understand your National Rifle Association has a lot to answer for with regard to gun control. It would seem that they control sections of your government, Politicians, and anyone else who get in there way. By way of large voter blocks.

Well, they're somewhat a mess lately (due charges from the New York Attorney General and a failed bankruptcy filing to avoid that). Seems they're still having an annual meeting in Texas later this month. They remind me of Johnson's "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Hopefully the lawsuit will dissolve the f*ckers soon https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/02/politics/nra-lawsuit-new-york/index.html