Integrated amp or Separates?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

AC4L sometimes offer a free 3 year warranty with some of their refurbished AVRs.

Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!

www.accessories4less.com

Yeah, but have you used their 3rd party warranty? How does the 3rd party warranty compare to a Factory Yamaha 5YR Warranty?

 

[Pogre]

Yeah, but have you used their 3rd party warranty? How does the 3rd party warranty compare to a Factory Yamaha 5YR Warranty?

Hey, a warranty is a warranty. I'll take it over none at all, and the savings buying refurbished are pretty significant. I got a warranty with my refurbished SR6011 5 years ago and never needed to use it but it was nice to know I was covered for at least 3 years. In general if a unit is going to be problematic it will usually manifest early in its life in my experience.

*You do have to fill out and register for the warranty with AC4L so there's that. It wasn't really a hassle tho, and worth the small amount of time it took to do.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Hey, a warranty is a warranty. I'll take it over none at all, and the savings buying refurbished are pretty significant. I got a warranty with my refurbished SR6011 5 years ago and never needed to use it but it was nice to know I was covered for at least 3 years. In general if a unit is going to be problematic it will usually manifest early in its life in my experience.

*You do have to fill out and register for the warranty with AC4L so there's that. It wasn't really a hassle tho, and worth the small amount of time it took to do.

You're not saying that ALL warranties are the same, are you?

Not all warranties are the SAME, just like not all Customer Supports are the same, especially from 3rd parties - not just for AVR, but for everything else in life.

Heck, not all FACTORY Warranties and Factory Customer Supports are the same.

If I were buying a 3rd party warranty, I would definitely get the facts. Don't assume it's good.

But I guess some people will find that out the hard way when they DO NEED to use it.

For example, do you have to pay $75 to ship to NJ? And after they supposedly fixed it and shipped it back to you, what happens if it still didn't work and they blamed it on FedEx/UPS?

Do you then have to pay another $75 to ship it back to NJ? And what happens if you get it back and it still didn't work?

 

[Pogre]

But I guess some people will find that out the hard way when they DO NEED to use it.

I guess that means in my experience buying from D&M means you have a good chance of never having to find out!

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I guess that means in my experience buying from D&M means you have a good chance of never having to find out!

No doubt, as they say, the best warranty is one where you NEVER have to use it at all. It depends on your luck.

 

[Taiga]

Hi all,

I’m the OP and updating my original questions. I’ve been doing a lot of reading here and on the ASR site. And I’ve been think about my needs and wants for an amp for now and the future. I am considering purchasing one of the Hypex NCORE dual module amps from Audiophinics such as this:

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-S500NC Power Amplifier Class D Stereo NCore NC500MP 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

www.audiophonics.fr

and for a preamp, either the Schiit Saga S:

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

www.schiit.com

or the Emotiva BASX-PT1:

BasX PT1 Stereo Preamplifier/DAC/Tuner

BasX PT1 Stereo Preamplifier/DAC/Tuner

emotiva.com

New questions
1) from an audio perspective, any reasons why these would not be good choices?
2) do folks have experience with Audiophonics? I am in the US so will have to deal with overseas shipping (and perhaps a language barrier) if I have a problem.

Thanks!

 

[Golfx]

Hi all,

I’m the OP and updating my original questions. I’ve been doing a lot of reading here and on the ASR site. And I’ve been think about my needs and wants for an amp for now and the future. I am considering purchasing one of the Hypex NCORE dual module amps from Audiophinics such as this:

AUDIOPHONICS HPA-S500NC Power Amplifier Class D Stereo NCore NC500MP 2x500W 4 Ohm - Audiophonics

www.audiophonics.fr

and for a preamp, either the Schiit Saga S:

Schiit Audio: Audio Products Made in USA

www.schiit.com

or the Emotiva BASX-PT1:

BasX PT1 Stereo Preamplifier/DAC/Tuner

BasX PT1 Stereo Preamplifier/DAC/Tuner

emotiva.com

New questions
1) from an audio perspective, any reasons why these would not be good choices?
2) do folks have experience with Audiophonics? I am in the US so will have to deal with overseas shipping (and perhaps a language barrier) if I have a problem.

Thanks!

Audiophonics class D amps should be fine. I ordered from Nord Audio in the UK and had no problems. Emotiva has acquired a reputation for buggy equipment and poor customer service.

 

[PENG]

Hi all,

New questions
1) from an audio perspective, any reasons why these would not be good choices?
2) do folks have experience with Audiophonics? I am in the US so will have to deal with overseas shipping (and perhaps a language barrier) if I have a problem.

Thanks!

People seem to be happy with their Audiophonics but there is no guarantee that you won't need service. For me if I were in the US, or even Canada where I am, I would go with VTV amp, and I believe they do offer a 30-day trial and 2 year warranty. I know at least one customer reported issues with their workmanship on ASR but there was a very long time ago (VTV might have been just starting up at the time), and I believe those issues have been dealt with already.

For preamp, if you want to take full advantage of those very quiet Hypex or Purifi based amps, you should pick a preamp that has even better specs. They are XLR only, so I wouldn't pay extra for RCAs because you may be better off using good RCA to XLR interconnects anyway, but obviously it is better to use preamps that have balanced outputs.

 

[ParleyW]

Hi,
I am in the process of replacing aging stereo components. I recently bought Klipsch RP- 280F speakers. Now I need a new amp. My old beloved Onkyo died and I’ve been using a first generation SONY AVR (STR-AV 1020) that I got from a co-worker. Now the SONY is making frequent rapid clicking noises from the unit, but not from the speakers. It is the same feedback clicks it is designed to make when adjusting the volume from the remote. My Onkyo was 80 watts per channel (8ohms) and the Sony is 120 wpc according to the manual.

At the moment my thoughts are either:
1) Yamaha S-701 Integrated Amp (about $800)
or
2) Marantz MM7025 Amp and Parasound Zpre3 Preamplifier (about $1450 for both).

I am only interested in a 2 channel system for music. I do have an OLED TV hooked into the system, but 2 channels for movies is all I need.

I would appreciate input on these two options as well as recommendations on another way to go. Quality and flexibility going forward are my main concern. Price is less of an issue, but I hate to overspend for no gain. I just want to keep enjoying my music.

Thanks!

I’ve replaced one of the finest receivers I’ve heard, the Pioneer VSX-59TXI (also owned Yamaha, Nakamichi, Denon). Replacements are moderately priced Rotel separates. Vastly superior sound to any of them. My 7.2 ran less than 2k.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I’ve replaced one of the finest receivers I’ve heard, the Pioneer VSX-59TXI (also owned Yamaha, Nakamichi, Denon). Replacements are moderately priced Rotel separates. Vastly superior sound to any of them. My 7.2 ran less than 2k.

What do you mean "Superior Sound"?

It sounds CLEARER?

The BASS is a stronger and deeper?

And they are all set to DIRECT mode or different modes?

 

[ParleyW]

My two cents. I’ve owned Nakamichi, Onlyo, Denon, Yamaha and what I believe is the finest Pioneer receiver ever made, the VSX59TXI. The Nakamichi AV-10 and Pioneer had the best sound, but none of them can keep up with my Rotel or Lexicon separates. Added bonus …..I don’t need my back fused from moving near 100 lb receivers.

 

[Pogre]

My two cents. I’ve owned Nakamichi, Onlyo, Denon, Yamaha and what I believe is the finest Pioneer receiver ever made, the VSX59TXI. The Nakamichi AV-10 and Pioneer had the best sound, but none of them can keep up with my Rotel or Lexicon separates. Added bonus …..I don’t need my back fused from moving near 100 lb receivers.

I'd venture a guess if you were to level things and blind test you wouldn't hear any difference between them. This sort of bias is very, VERY common.

 

[ParleyW]

I'd venture a guess if you were to level things and blind test you wouldn't hear any difference between them. This sort of bias is very, VERY common.

I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours listening….since 1980 with my first Hafler xl-280. I could pick the out my amps blind. No question. Put them on my 107/2…id know.

 

[Pogre]

I’ve spent thousands and thousands of hours listening….since 1980 with my first Hafler xl-280. I could pick the out my amps blind. No question. Put them on my 107/2…id know.

Spending thousands of hours reinforcing your biases doesn't really count for much, lol.

All I know is, every time claims like this are tested the differences melt away when blind. Every. Single. Time. If you know of any blind test that shows anything different please link me to it because I've yet to see anyone be able to back those claims.

 

[ParleyW]

What do you mean "Superior Sound"?

It sounds CLEARER?

The BASS is a stronger and deeper?

And they are all set to DIRECT mode or different modes?

I’m using a Rotel two channel preamp, tone bypassed with the RB-1090. I’ve used the R3 with Yamaha M70 Hafler XL-280, Nakamichi PA-1, Several models of Rotel and Crestron CNAMPX 7x200 (ATI). All very strong amps, but the low end is deeper, tighter, more defined. Transients in tracks like “Fanfare for the Common Man” have more impact, Far more lively sound. It becomes a full tower squished into a bookshelf. Damn fine speaker.

I’ve heard the same with my KEF 107/2, 104/2, JBL L100t, L80T, L7, L5, 4412, RBH T2/r, SV-61/R. All speakers in the same placement. The high dampening factor is really wonderful with the big JBL 12” woofers. My newly restored 107/2 shake my entire home with the right track. Great control. It could just be the quality/nature of this amp. Pipe organ is just crazy on the 107/2. It’s made me rethink my amp choices. I’m not a high volume type of guy, but I shoot for a higher wattage/all channels driven type of amp these days.

 

[ParleyW]

Spending thousands of hours reinforcing your biases doesn't really count for much, lol.

All I know is, every time claims like this are tested the differences melt away when blind. Every. Single. Time. If you know of any blind test that shows anything different please link me to it because I've yet to see anyone be able to back those claims.

Well then. Must feel good to always be right then. I’ll trade all of my gear in for your equipment. List your perfection please.

 

[Pogre]

Well then. Must feel good to always be right then. I’ll trade all of my gear in for your equipment. List your perfection please.

I never said I was right. I Just told you what weve seen and asked for some evidence to back your claim. I think you're going to find that assertions like this are going to be rejected here unless you put in the work to show that you did a truly level comparison. There are far too many studies out there about biases, placebo effect and others for anyone here to just accept a blanket assertion like that without any evidence.

 

[Pogre]

List your perfection please.

I don't know where the idea of perfection comes from with your cute little sentence here, but my gear is in my sig and I'll bet you a dime to a dollar that your amplification and my amplification are likely indistinguishable in a blind test.

 

[ParleyW]

Been thinking while doing the dishes. Let’s expand on your principle of bias. The next guy that drops $200k of a pair of Wilson speakers need only get a 100 watt radio shack receiver. All valve/tube, transistor class A, A/B, class D all will have an indistinguishable sound in a blind test. Krell, AR Hybrid, Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson, Yamaha, Adcom. If you hear anything different, your only hearing your own bias.

Well that will save folks a lot on money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

Been thinking while doing the dishes. Let’s expand on your principle of bias. The next guy that drops $200k of a pair of Wilson speakers need only get a 100 watt radio shack receiver. All valve/tube, transistor class A, A/B, class D all will have an indistinguishable sound in a blind test. Krell, AR Hybrid, Conrad Johnson, Mark Levinson, Yamaha, Adcom. If you hear anything different, your only hearing your own bias.

Well that will save folks a lot on money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tubes are different. There are measurable and audible differences between some tubes. Aka distortion. Mild, even pleasant sounding distortion, but distortion nonetheless. That accounts for the differences and preferences by some for that tube sound.

Solid state otoh, has a singular goal in mind. Neutrality and transparency. A feat achieved quite a while ago and perfected on over the decades. Today's solid state amplifiers have for the most part pushed any and all distortion so far out of the range of human hearing that the differences are inaudible. Any differences heard would likely be a sign of a malfunction more than anything.

Or just straight up expectation bias or placebo.

More expensive amps do have their allure. They tend to have better aesthetics, have meters, use more exotic materials and offer gobs of power. There's pride of ownership too. They're also made within exacting tolerances and have excellent build quality. I personally love the way McIntosh gear looks and just their overall build quality. They're gorgeous amps and I'd be proud to have one, but I already know it's not going to sound any better than my lowly Monoprice Monolith. They're both going to sound as they should. Neutral and transparent. It's not something to expect a sq upgrade from. That's always in the speakers and room.