Amp went into protective mode, I think

[the machine]

I had a friend over this morning and decided to throw in fury on 4k so he could experience the set up.

Had both PB16s running at -3dB and the SR7012 set to 75, which 75 is the highest I have ever pushed it in the past, as it is all I can take. About 20 mins in to the movie crazy amounts of sub bass and loud explosions were going off and the amp shut down and the power light was blinking red. I waited a few seconds, turned on the power button, lowered the volume to 69.5 and it was fine for the rest of the time. The amp was barely warm, and the front three are powered by external amps.

Any idea what may have caused this? First time it has ever happened, but I have only had the system running at this volume level maybe 10 times in my life, and never with sub bass extension like this movie has. Picture frames that were leaning against walls in the room and upstairs were knocked over during the movie.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

What amp? The subwoofer amp?

 

[Pogre]

Mighta hit a peak and it pushed it further than you have before. Hard to say really without more info, but sounds like protection did its job and saved the amp!

 

[the machine]

What amp? The subwoofer amp?

7012

 

[the machine]

Mighta hit a peak and it pushed it further than you have before. Hard to say really without more info, but sounds like protection did its job and saved the amp!

yeah, just seems crazy because it's only powering surrounds, rear surrounds, and elevations.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

7012

I would put 2 x 120mm USB fans on top of the 7012 to pull Air Up. It probably got really HOT.

 

[the machine]

I would put 2 x 120mm USB fans on top of the 7012 to pull Air Up. It probably got really HOT.

yeah could try that. The unit it is in now is open, and was barely warm to the touch of the top. It's also not powering the mains so it seems like the load should be pretty darn low... That's why I even brought it to the forum. Seems as if it should not have happened.

 

[Pogre]

yeah, just seems crazy because it's only powering surrounds, rear surrounds, and elevations.

Check all of your connections and wiring. I had a situation one time where our puppy chewed through a speaker cord behind our couch and it would shut the receiver down when I turned it up past a certain point. Look for any stray strands at the terminals on both ends or worn spots on your cables.

You might not find anything, just something to look at. Sounds like you had it cranking pretty good too. I didn't see what speakers you're using? Low impedance speakers are tougher on amps and might trigger it if played loud enough.

 

[the machine]

Check all of your connections and wiring. I had a situation one time where our puppy chewed through a speaker cord behind our couch and it would shut the receiver down when I turned it up past a certain point. Look for any stray strands at the terminals on both ends or worn spots on your cables.

You might not find anything, just something to look at. Sounds like you had it cranking pretty good too. I didn't see what speakers you're using? Low impedance speakers are tougher on amps and might trigger it if played loud enough.

SVS ultra towers and center, but those are powered by outlaw 2200's. SVS Ultra and Prime bookshelves for surrounds and elevations for 4 height channels.

It for sure seems to be level dependent. The amp has never shut down like that before and I've been using it for 2 years. Today was probably the hardest I ever pushed it, but again, it was barely warm to the touch.

 

[lovinthehd]

Your avr I would think should be able to do that without going into protection so I'd also go thru the connections but what distance are you from speakers? Any unusual eq applied? Maybe disconnect everything and maybe even just add one channel/device at a time and see if any particular one is triggering it....maybe the hdams overheated (J/K....I'd have to ask @PENG tho)

 

[the machine]

Your avr I would think should be able to do that without going into protection so I'd also go thru the connections but what distance are you from speakers? Any unusual eq applied? Maybe disconnect everything and maybe even just add one channel/device at a time and see if any particular one is triggering it....maybe the hdams overheated (J/K....I'd have to ask @PENG tho)

No eq, everything was standard. Distance from LR speakers is only about 7ft, 6ft from center. Normal listening conditions if I'm just watching a tv show I have the volume around 45 on the 7012. If I want to listen pretty loud I'm up in the high 50's low 60's. If I'm pumping it like a movie theater, 75 is as high as I can go. There's still room left on the dial. Is there any chance the low frequencies actually triggered the shut off? TBH I haven't heard the subs do what they did today, and it's not my first time watching the movie on this setup. Last time I believe I ran it around -10dB on the subs and 65 on the AVR.

I'm dumb AF when it comes to technical stuff with audio. I have no clue what hdams are, or if you're just being facetious or not, lol.

 

[lovinthehd]

No eq, everything was standard. Distance from LR speakers is only about 7ft, 6ft from center. Normal listening conditions if I'm just watching a tv show I have the volume around 45 on the 7012. If I want to listen pretty loud I'm up in the high 50's low 60's. If I'm pumping it like a movie theater, 75 is as high as I can go. There's still room left on the dial. Is there any chance the low frequencies actually triggered the shut off? TBH I haven't heard the subs do what they did today, and it's not my first time watching the movie on this setup. Last time I believe I ran it around -10dB on the subs and 65 on the AVR.

I'm dumb AF when it comes to technical stuff with audio. I have no clue what hdams are, or if you're just being facetious or not, lol.

I wouldn't be happy if my avrs shut down at those volume levels. The subs if anything should be taking a load off the avr, just as your power amp on the mains does. The sub setting doesn't mean much to me....each sub amp is a bit different. Did you setup using Audyssey for both your power amp and subs or ? I have heard of some avrs going into protection just based on pre-outs as well, but don't think your Marantz should do that. I think either @ryanosaur and/or @Pogre have that avr, and similar speakers in Pogre's case. I was doing a little tease on the Marantz HDAMs, but maybe Peng has an idea if he checks in....

 

[the machine]

I wouldn't be happy if my avrs shut down at those volume levels. The subs if anything should be taking a load off the avr, just as your power amp on the mains does. The sub setting doesn't mean much to me....each sub amp is a bit different. Did you setup using Audyssey for both your power amp and subs or ? I have heard of some avrs going into protection just based on pre-outs as well, but don't think your Marantz should do that. I think either @ryanosaur and/or @Pogre have that avr, and similar speakers in Pogre's case. I was doing a little tease on the Marantz HDAMs, but maybe Peng has an idea if he checks in....

I don't know if I considered myself 'not happy' as I really had no idea WTF had just happened. I assumed it was a protection mode, was just surprised to see it happen. But I was also surprised to see items on a shelf knocked over in the room. I walked upstairs at one point to take a phone call and I could hear the subs going wild and a picture frame leaning on a bookshelf slid down right in front of me and landed flat on it's back. Loud enough to shake the upstairs furniture so the output was for sure pretty intense. That's why I thought maybe the super low frequency at this level caused something to vibrate enough in the room to cause the amp to shut down.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't know if I considered myself 'not happy' as I really had no idea WTF had just happened. I assumed it was a protection mode, was just surprised to see it happen. But I was also surprised to see items on a shelf knocked over in the room. I walked upstairs at one point to take a phone call and I could hear the subs going wild and a picture frame leaning on a bookshelf slid down right in front of me and landed flat on it's back. Loud enough to shake the upstairs furniture so the output was for sure pretty intense. That's why I thought maybe the super low frequency at this level caused something to vibrate enough in the room to cause the amp to shut down.

I doubt physical vibration would do that. The sub amp survives well enough, eh? I have Fury, and don't think of its bass capabilities as quite that intense....altho I don't listen at -5 much these days either (roughly your 75 on the absolute scale) nor bump up my sub trim level a lot. I'm just wondering how things were setup with Audyssey (or the app), what settings were in use, etc as hard to assume a lot.

 

[Verdinut]

Check all of your connections and wiring. I had a situation one time where our puppy chewed through a speaker cord behind our couch and it would shut the receiver down when I turned it up past a certain point. Look for any stray strands at the terminals on both ends or worn spots on your cables.

You might not find anything, just something to look at. Sounds like you had it cranking pretty good too. I didn't see what speakers you're using? Low impedance speakers are tougher on amps and might trigger it if played loud enough.

It's very unlikely that surround amplifiers would have created that much heat, as they usually don't require much amp power. Was the OP using the "All Channel Stereo" setting? As you mentioned, a short circuit on one of the speaker terminals could have triggered the protection mode.

 

[TLS Guy]

I had a friend over this morning and decided to throw in fury on 4k so he could experience the set up.

Had both PB16s running at -3dB and the SR7012 set to 75, which 75 is the highest I have ever pushed it in the past, as it is all I can take. About 20 mins in to the movie crazy amounts of sub bass and loud explosions were going off and the amp shut down and the power light was blinking red. I waited a few seconds, turned on the power button, lowered the volume to 69.5 and it was fine for the rest of the time. The amp was barely warm, and the front three are powered by external amps.

Any idea what may have caused this? First time it has ever happened, but I have only had the system running at this volume level maybe 10 times in my life, and never with sub bass extension like this movie has. Picture frames that were leaning against walls in the room and upstairs were knocked over during the movie.

I am sure it did go into protection. There are just too many amps in these modern receivers, powered by inadequate power supplies.

Members, you really need to look at specs and understand them and be much more careful about what you purchase.

Just take a look at this spec, copied from that receiver's manufacturers speck sheet.

Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)	165 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Drive)	235 W

There are NO specs quoted for more than two channels driven. You don't have to guess why, you know.
So that means that the power supply is so undersized as to be useless except at low to moderate volume. No specs are given for using more than two channels. But you can extrapolate that the receiver will be woefully deficient in power if four or more channels are used. So I can be certain this power supply was overloaded and went into protection. In any event the power supply has a maximum power draw of 700 watts. Of that at most 450 watts will be available to the speakers total, at the most, and may well be less.

It is totally dishonest to have a nine channel device and only quote a power spec. for two channels driven. Few will buy a receiver with 9 channels to power a 2 channel system. But honestly that is all that receiver is fit for.

In current program there is actually a lot of power going to speakers other then the front three, as the OP has found out. This was something discussed on a recent Audioholics video presentation.

That receiver is only fit for low spl. usage. I would never recommend anyone purchase a unit with that specification for high spl. levels at any time.

 

[Replicant 7]

I don't know if I considered myself 'not happy' as I really had no idea WTF had just happened. I assumed it was a protection mode, was just surprised to see it happen. But I was also surprised to see items on a shelf knocked over in the room. I walked upstairs at one point to take a phone call and I could hear the subs going wild and a picture frame leaning on a bookshelf slid down right in front of me and landed flat on it's back. Loud enough to shake the upstairs furniture so the output was for sure pretty intense. That's why I thought maybe the super low frequency at this level caused something to vibrate enough in the room to cause the amp to shut down.

Wow! Talk about a earthquake with your set up huh. Never heard of something happen like that.

 

[lovinthehd]

I am sure it did go into protection. There are just too many amps in these modern receivers, powered by inadequate power supplies.

Members, you really need to look at specs and understand them and be much more careful about what you purchase.

Just take a look at this spec, copied from that receiver's manufacturers speck sheet.

Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 0.7% 2ch Drive)	165 W
Power Output (6 ohm, 1 kHz, 10% 1ch Drive)	235 W

There are NO specs quoted for more than two channels driven. You don't have to guess why, you know.
So that means that the power supply is so undersized as to be useless except at low to moderate volume. No specs are given for using more than two channels. But you can extrapolate that the receiver will be woefully deficient in power if four or more channels are used. So I can be certain this power supply was overloaded and went into protection. In any event the power supply has a maximum power draw of 700 watts. Of that at most 450 watts will be available to the speakers total, at the most, and may well be less.

It is totally dishonest to have a nine channel device and only quote a power spec. for two channels driven. Few will buy a receiver with 9 channels to power a 2 channel system. But honestly that is all that receiver is fit for.

In current program there is actually a lot of power going to speakers other then the front three, as the OP has found out. This was something discussed on a recent Audioholics video presentation.

That receiver is only fit for low spl. usage. I would never recommend anyone purchase a unit with that specification for high spl. levels at any time.

Marantz has a policy of saying their 5ch driven spec will be 70% of the 2ch spec (125 wpc full band at 8 ohm at .05% thd, so about 87 wpc 5ch driven). Let alone how relatively unimportant the ACD spec is to begin with. Most users would be just fine with this avr. Where did you find a max power supply spec or is it more like in this article ? https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings

 

[TLS Guy]

Marantz has a policy of saying their 5ch driven spec will be 70% of the 2ch spec (125 wpc full band at 8 ohm at .05% thd, so about 87 wpc 5ch driven). Let alone how relatively unimportant the ACD spec is to begin with. Most users would be just fine with this avr. Where did you find a max power supply spec or is it more like in this article ? https://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/receiver-back-panel-power-ratings

700 watts is specked as the maximum power supply draw. The efficiency of class A/B amps is in the 65 to 70 percent range. So that means roughly only two thirds of the power draw is available to the speakers, that gives you in rounded off numbers 450 watts.

The real shocker though is the power drop per channel going from 1 to 2 channels. That really shows that the power supply is nowhere nearly adequate, and indicates the power limiters will be operating overtime. When stretched even slightly beyond their limits, then the protection cuts in.

In seems to me that there has been a steady erosion in the useful power of receivers over the years. This is almost certainly to maintain price.
However using those design parameters is bound to affect reliability and longevity.

If they are going to carry on like that, they would be far better using class D topology, however that increases part count, so I'm not sure it would prevent price rises.

Investing in robust power amps is a far better long term investment, that is far cheaper over the long haul, but not in initial investment. Now the technology is becoming mature, the need to upgrade is becoming of progressively less benefit, which makes and AVP a increasingly better investment over time.

The maturation of the technology, coupled with the current channel requirements of many, make the receiver an increasingly poor investment.

So, if you are planning a high dynamic range system that you plan to keep for the long haul, then don't buy receivers. This multichannel technology is now essentially 20 years old, which is typical of the time technologies take to become mature. The best way to keep costs down is not to introduce new models more often than every five years and may be longer. That also increases the chances parts will be available over longer periods of time, making repair a better option than it is now.

 

[lovinthehd]

700 watts is specked as the maximum power supply draw. The efficiency of class A/B amps is in the 65 to 70 percent range. So that means roughly only two thirds of the power draw is available to the speakers, that gives you in rounded off numbers 450 watts.

The real shocker though is the power drop per channel going from 1 to 2 channels. That really shows that the power supply is nowhere nearly adequate, and indicates the power limiters will be operating overtime. When stretched even slightly beyond their limits, then the protection cuts in.

In seems to me that there has been a steady erosion in the useful power of receivers over the years. This is almost certainly to maintain price.
However using those design parameters is bound to affect reliability and longevity.

If they are going to carry on like that, they would be far better using class D topology, however that increases part count, so I'm not sure it would prevent price rises.

Investing in robust power amps is a far better long term investment, that is far cheaper over the long haul, but not in initial investment. Now the technology is becoming mature, the need to upgrade is becoming of progressively less benefit, which makes and AVP a increasingly better investment over time.

The maturation of the technology, coupled with the current channel requirements of many, make the receiver an increasingly poor investment.

So, if you are planning a high dynamic range system that you plan to keep for the long haul, then don't buy receivers. This multichannel technology is now essentially 20 years old, which is typical of the time technologies take to become mature. The best way to keep costs down is not to introduce new models more often than every five years and may be longer. That also increases the chances parts will be available over longer periods of time, making repair a better option than it is now.

Still, the spec doesn't say max power, might try that article.