Can’t decide on new sub/subs

[vader540is]

So you set up 3 different 150 lb subwoofers in the same system and compared them all? Accurately? With no measuring? How?? Your buddy just happened to own a Mono 15? Didn't they just come out?

at the time, I sold my Umik-1 and ordered one from cross spectrum, it was supposed to be delivered before we had all the subs...but It was delivered late.


My buddy had this mono 15 ( its the older one)

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[kini]

Yes I have demoed a FV15HP & TV1512. My buddy brought over his Monolith 15

The Rythmik and PSA were on another level...they made the monolith and my PB4000 sound "muddy." I wish I would have taken some REW measurements to see what was going on.

I ordered a PB16 and was extremely underwhelmed.

I currently own a TV1812 and I have plenty of mid-bass, TR and ULF. I get usable output down to 9.5hz, ill be adding a 2nd one later to fix a couple of nulls.

My living room is 16x14x9 with two wide open doorways on a concrete slab.

If the monoprice sounded "muddy" in comparison it seems to be a setup issue or just subjective bias. The monoprice has less distortion than the Rythmik and who knows about the PSA since it has never nor will ever be measured it seems.

I fell for the PSA fan boy cult with their speakers and was really underwhelmed. If I were looking for new subs I wouldn't even bother with PSA and the unknown.

 

[vader540is]

If the monoprice sounded "muddy" in comparison it seems to be a setup issue or just subjective bias. The monoprice has less distortion than the Rythmik and who knows about the PSA since it has never nor will ever be measured it seems.

I fell for the PSA fan boy cult with their speakers and was really underwhelmed. If I were looking for new subs I wouldn't even bother with PSA and the unknown.

I own Rythmik and PSA subs. Both brand's sound signature is night and day difference from SVS & Mono IMHO.

I've done this with speakers before as well.

Sound is clearly subjective... hence why I believe in home trials are a great idea.


Anywho, lets get back on topic with subwoofers.

 

[Pogre]

I own Rythmik and PSA subs. Both brand's sound signature is night and day difference from SVS & Mono IMHO.

I've done this with speakers before as well.

Sound is clearly subjective... hence why I believe in home trials are a great idea.


Anywho, lets get back on topic with subwoofers.

Sound signature?? For a subwoofer?

Okay, you just told me all I need to know, lol.

 

[Pogre]

If the monoprice sounded "muddy" in comparison it seems to be a setup issue or just subjective bias.

This. Subs do not have a "sound signature" like speakers do, and any muddiness heard from a sub designed as well as the Monolith subs (or any other at that level) is almost certainly a setup issue and/or bias.

 

[vader540is]

Sound signature IE ULF, mid-bass... which all can be measured.

 

[shadyJ]

Sound signature IE ULF, mid-bass... which all can be measured.

What metrics exactly? I would love to know what to look for.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

If you're willing to DIY, definitely look into GSG flat packs and build two Marty Cubes with some 18's. End of sub crawl forever. Within your budget.

Otherwise, you already spelled it out between HSU Research, Monolith and SVS. For cost, HSU and Monolith are more per dollar value.

Very best,

 

[vader540is]

What metrics exactly? I would love to know what to look for.

Lol oh stop with the jokes James, you don't need to look for anything. You are one of the god fathers when it comes to measurements.

TBH, I wish I could have taken some...

We put the subs all in the same spot, ( one at a time) gain was at noon, phase zero, room correction was off.

Mono & FV15HP was set to their lowest port tune and the attenuator ( room size) was set to max on the TV15.


The FV15HP and TV1512 would make stuff rattle on the other side of my house, where that didn't happen with the PB4000 & Mono15.


We could feel more chest slam with the FV15HP & TV1512 over the PB4000 & mono15


I know its not a accurate test at all. Especially not compared to what you can do James.

In the end, it was my personal experience with a couple in home demos.

Does this mean the PB4000 and mono15 are bad subs? No way, SVS and monolith make excellent products.

 

[vader540is]

Heya,

If you're willing to DIY, definitely look into GSG flat packs and build two Marty Cubes with some 18's. End of sub crawl forever. Within your budget.

Otherwise, you already spelled it out between HSU Research, Monolith and SVS. For cost, HSU and Monolith are more per dollar value.

Very best,

I agree, DIY would be best bang for buck, especially that OP has some Carpenter skills.

REW & the Mini-DSP isn't that difficult to tune.

Heck there are even some guys that can do that for you remotely.

 

[Pogre]

For cost, HSU and Monolith are more per dollar value.

That's where I'm at. Even diy will be hard to beat those bang for buck. I'd go with Monoprice myself, but I don't mind their size. I have plenty of room and I actually like their looks.

 

[MalVeauX]

I agree, DIY would be best bang for buck, especially that OP has some Carpenter skills.

REW & the Mini-DSP isn't that difficult to tune.

Heck there are even some guys that can do that for you remotely.

The GSG packs, especially the Marty Cube Rounded 18 Flat Packs don't require any carpenter skills other than wood glue, clamps, sanding and painting. Literally just follow directions and assemble piece by piece with time for the glue to set. Pre-cut and ready to go with labels on everything. Like Ikea for subs. And a 18" Marty Cube will walk all over any of these 12's, 15's, etc with room to spare, like not even in the same category of bass. And that's the smallest one! Lots of great videos out there showing how easy it is to assemble.

Very best,

 

[vader540is]

The GSG packs, especially the Marty Cube Rounded 18 Flat Packs don't require any carpenter skills other than wood glue, clamps, sanding and painting. Literally just follow directions and assemble piece by piece with time for the glue to set. Pre-cut and ready to go with labels on everything. Like Ikea for subs. And a 18" Marty Cube will walk all over any of these 12's, 15's, etc with room to spare, like not even in the same category of bass. And that's the smallest one! Lots of great videos out there showing how easy it is to assemble.

Very best,

GSG is awesome.


I might build a GSG hammer for my garage.

 

[MalVeauX]

That's where I'm at. Even diy will be hard to beat those bang for buck. I'd go with Monoprice myself, but I don't mind their size. I have plenty of room and I actually like their looks.

Hrm,

Well, a HSU VTF3 Mark 5 is $999+$115 shipping ($1114) for a 15" with a 2000wPeak/600wCont plate amp.

A 15 Marty Cube Flatpack is $359 shipped (shipping included in price on this particular one), Dayton UM15-22 is $253, and a Behringer NX3000D (3000wPeak/bridged) amp is $408, so $1022.

Neck and neck on cost. You spend more labor on building your DIY Marty Cube. HSU gives support. Kind of a toss up. Not sure if the output is similar enough to be a wash. I could see someone want the HSU 15 just because its high output and no assembly.

DIY pulls away the moment you go beyond 15 inch subs though. For only a bit more, you can get an 18" Marty and then there's no more comparison on low end output with most single 15's as the surface area increase with a NX6000D amp behind it is just monstrous. It's wild its not a huge increase to go from 15 to 18 on DIY but the results are significant. And being able to do two of them for $2500 approximately is nuts for what you get output wise.

Just added them to cart, 2x 18 Marty Cube flat packs, 2x Dayton UM18-22 drivers, 1x Behringer NX6000D amp is $1924. Add some shipping but its ridiculous value at that near $2k mark. Compare 18 inch Marty Cubes to any other double 15 offering from HSU, SVS, Monolith at the near $2k range and the 18's just eat their lunch. But, DIY...

Very best,

 

[ryanosaur]

DIY can be a winner if you build multiples... and depends on the Driver in question. Depending on Amp choice and cost of wood... DIY is still a pretty expensive proposition. Especially if you want to finish it nice.

 

[Pogre]

Hrm,

Well, a HSU VTF3 Mark 5 is $999+$115 shipping ($1114) for a 15" with a 2000wPeak/600wCont plate amp.

A 15 Marty Cube Flatpack is $359 shipped (shipping included in price on this particular one), Dayton UM15-22 is $253, and a Behringer NX3000D (3000wPeak/bridged) amp is $408, so $1022.

Neck and neck on cost. You spend more labor on building your DIY Marty Cube. HSU gives support. Kind of a toss up. Not sure if the output is similar enough to be a wash. I could see someone want the HSU 15 just because its high output and no assembly.

DIY pulls away the moment you go beyond 15 inch subs though. For only a bit more, you can get an 18" Marty and then there's no more comparison on low end output with most single 15's as the surface area increase with a NX6000D amp behind it is just monstrous. It's wild its not a huge increase to go from 15 to 18 on DIY but the results are significant. And being able to do two of them for $2500 approximately is nuts for what you get output wise.

Very best,

Yup. When I bought my HSUs I put together a parts list, not for a Marty, but for a capable diy and the cost was so close I just went with HSU.

Those Marty's are a bit different tho, right? They're pretty big, thus really efficient, deep digging designs. I've heard they're pretty awesome. I have enough room for something like that too...

 

[lovinthehd]

Hrm,

Well, a HSU VTF3 Mark 5 is $999+$115 shipping ($1114) for a 15" with a 2000wPeak/600wCont plate amp.

A 15 Marty Cube Flatpack is $359 shipped (shipping included in price on this particular one), Dayton UM15-22 is $253, and a Behringer NX3000D (3000wPeak/bridged) amp is $408, so $1022.

Neck and neck on cost. You spend more labor on building your DIY Marty Cube. HSU gives support. Kind of a toss up. Not sure if the output is similar enough to be a wash. I could see someone want the HSU 15 just because its high output and no assembly.

DIY pulls away the moment you go beyond 15 inch subs though. For only a bit more, you can get an 18" Marty and then there's no more comparison on low end output with most single 15's as the surface area increase with a NX6000D amp behind it is just monstrous. It's wild its not a huge increase to go from 15 to 18 on DIY but the results are significant. And being able to do two of them for $2500 approximately is nuts for what you get output wise.

Very best,

It's using a single amp for two subs that often helps on diy "value" (Ryan beat me to it). Still, don't see why a carpenter would buy the flatpack (altho for many the convenience of cnc'd flatpacks could be well worth it). FWIW Marty designs in various configurations are available on the Marty faq thread on avsforum.

 

[MalVeauX]

For sure the value increases big time when you are doing multiple DIY and a single high power amp. Plus, two subs that big means tremendous value for output to keep the amp from screaming and to keep your breaker fuse from being tripped. They are big cabinets for sure, but they're still mobile and fit through doors. With some DIY you literally have to be careful not to build too big and not be able to move it (heavy) and fit through doors (just too big).

Even going the extra mile with a miniDSP HD to manage any curve you want on those subs without the room correction of your AVR mucking with it, only adds $250 and it's still a huge value over a commercial product of this size. 18's from Rythmic would be $2k each, so at least $4k+ for similar, almost twice the price.

Honestly the only thing that can be a hangup on any DIY sub is the finish, for someone that needs a specific matching finish in a room since they will be super obvious and huge. Not everyone is a fan of utilitarian looking subs, ie, flat black with roll on paint like pro audio amps meant to travel. I wouldn't want to attempt a veneer or some fancy paint job (gloss, etc). I'm ok with flat black though. But it is a huge point of contention since all the value in the world can be dead ended if it's two huge ugly boxes in the room and looks like a hack job bachelor pad type thing which gets shot down by the spouse.

Very best,

 

[Pogre]

For sure the value increases big time when you are doing multiple DIY and a single high power amp. Plus, two subs that big means tremendous value for output to keep the amp from screaming and to keep your breaker fuse from being tripped. They are big cabinets for sure, but they're still mobile and fit through doors. With some DIY you literally have to be careful not to build too big and not be able to move it (heavy) and fit through doors (just too big).

Very best,

You make a fair point about going with 18s too, plus multiple subs on one amp and it does start looking like a better value proposition. With op being a wood worker it might just be the way to go.

 

[ryanosaur]

I was talking to some cat at SpeakerPower last month. One of the selling points for their expensive high power Amps is connecting multiple subs in parallel since they are stable at 2 ohms. Well, long story short... some guy blew out his top tier Amp from them by trying to run too much stuff on it.
Moral of the story... don't get greedy. It will all work out in the end.