Can’t decide on new sub/subs

[shadyJ]

Been trying to land on a new sub/subs for months and just can’t decide, analys paralysis I guess. Current setup is Denon 4200 with Polk monitor 70s and CS2 center. Couple old Cambridge Soundworks surrounds and their old PS1 powered 12” sealed sub. Room is 20’x13’ with 8’8” ceilings with perimeter soffit at 7’8” so roughly 2200 cubic feet if my calculations are correct. Viewing area is off center in room because of a built in shelve/cabinet wall, its the only spot I could place surrounds symmetrically. I don’t have a ton of options as far placing them either. Definitely looking for deep tight bass for movies not so much music, I don’t listen at crazy high volumes either don’t know if that matters.

I was hopping to keep budget at $2-2.5k for 2 subs. Originally was thinking SVS PC-2000s kinda like the small footprint. But then I got thinking 15” subs might be better, got looking at both of HSUs 15” subs but they’ve gone up in price and with shipping there not quite the value they used to be. And now I’m contemplating just getting 1 nice 15” sub such as Rythmics fv15hp or PSAs tv15h or even a Monolith version 15 or 13?

And to even further my analysis paralysis I’ve delved into the DIY world. I am a carpenter and extremely handy and have no doubts I could build and finish any of the DIY kits no problem. My only issue going DIY is I’m not very computer literate and even though I just bought a Umik-1 and got REW it’s all Greek to me and not sure I can tackle setting up a separate amp and dialing subs in. Even watching tons of YT vids just don’t know if I will able to get em right.

So I’m open to all options and opinions thanks fellas.

How loud do you really listen? If you aren't trying to replicate a live earthquake, you might be getting into overkill. One good overlooked sub is the Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12. It's a bit big but it's not insanely heavy in case you ever have to move it by yourself. And it is a real performer. Two of those will likely give you all the bass you will ever need and they won't break the bank or your back. By the same toke, the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 is much the same, although the X12 does look a bit nicer.

The most physically manageable subs are without a doubt the SVS cylinder subs. They are good performers as well.

I would have to say the best bang for the buck at the moment for performance is the Monolith 15" at its sale price. That can't really be touched.

Whatever you decide, I would go for two subs, and maybe even three if you have the room. That goes a long way towards smoothing out the response without needing to rely on equalization as much. The chief determinant of sound quality in low frequencies is having a flat response, and the best way to get that is multiple subs to shore up nulls and equalization to trim the peaks.

 

[ryanosaur]

DSP response shaping, i.e., equalization.

Indeed, but there is still only so far you can push a pro driver with DSP and raw voltage before some aspects of the response begin to suffer.

 

[lovinthehd]

If you have the tools, skills for building/finishing I'd say go diy. Lots of good subs out there to find plans for, and you can spend the money on a better driver/amp instead of a finished product (just count your time/effort as free). You can even build it from baltic birch plywood to save some weight and not quite as toxic sawdust....altho availability/pricing these days could be an issue.

 

[dhark]

How loud do you really listen? If you aren't trying to replicate a live earthquake, you might be getting into overkill. One good overlooked sub is the Outlaw Audio Ultra-X12. It's a bit big but it's not insanely heavy in case you ever have to move it by yourself. And it is a real performer. Two of those will likely give you all the bass you will ever need and they won't break the bank or your back. By the same toke, the Hsu VTF-2 mk5 is much the same, although the X12 does look a bit nicer.

The most physically manageable subs are without a doubt the SVS cylinder subs. They are good performers as well.

I would have to say the best bang for the buck at the moment for performance is the Monolith 15" at its sale price. That can't really be touched.

Whatever you decide, I would go for two subs, and maybe even three if you have the room. That goes a long way towards smoothing out the response without needing to rely on equalization as much. The chief determinant of sound quality in low frequencies is having a flat response, and the best way to get that is multiple subs to shore up nulls and equalization to trim the peaks.

Outlaw Audio is literally headquartered the next town over from me! I didn’t know that. Currently $679 shipping $65 and tax $42 so $790 total. I could maybe get shipping waived and pick it up direct for $720? It’s only a 350 watt amp. It does look nice though.

 

[dhark]

If you have the tools, skills for building/finishing I'd say go diy. Lots of good subs out there to find plans for, and you can spend the money on a better driver/amp instead of a finished product (just count your time/effort as free). You can even build it from baltic birch plywood to save some weight and not quite as toxic sawdust....altho availability/pricing these days could be an issue.

Any thoughts on proven designs I should be looking into. 2 subs and amp in the $2k range?

 

[Pogre]

Demo them yourself OP.

Have you demoed them for yourself? What were your impressions? What about PSA and Rhythmik compared to one of Monoprice's THX Ultra certified subwoofers were better to you? Which models did you compare?

 

[lovinthehd]

Look at the subforum for diy here on Audioholics or avsforum.com, or subs on diyaudio.com, etc for sub designs/plans. They'll be specifying not only the box details but also the specific drivers the box is based on. The options for driver/box you'll need to sort for yourself somewhat, but think the research would give you some ideas to go on within your budget. A good quality pro amp with 2 channels is easier than using plate amps (plus I just don't want my amp in/on the box myself)....something from Crown or QSC (or if you want to spend some money maybe SpeakerPower).

I've used Stereo Integrity drivers (18s) as well as a coupla Infinity drivers (12s) but that's been a while since I researched those and took note of what's out there both for designs and availability of drivers (Stereo Integrity has scaled back ops since then due owner's health issues, but depends what size driver you want somewhat; the Infinity drivers I used are no longer available afaik), plus I built them several years back so no particular plans that I've run across recently as haven't been looking.

I went sealed myself for a coupla reasons, one being I have limited experience in woodworking and finishing (and am easy to please on the finishing, I just stained some baltic birch ply for some, used duratex on others), size, weight, and how many subs I was willing to use to make up for the lack of efficiency a ported would bring. I'm using Crown XLS amps and minidsp units (2x4HD would be what I'd get now) but with a ported sub you may not need much in the way of eq if no protective high pass filter below tuning is needed and your Audyssey alone may even do the trick.

Might be a bit of a rabbit hole compared to just buying something, tho

 

[lovinthehd]

Outlaw Audio is literally headquartered the next town over from me! I didn’t know that. Currently $679 shipping $65 and tax $42 so $790 total. I could maybe get shipping waived and pick it up direct for $720? It’s only a 350 watt amp. It does look nice though.

Dont get hung up on wattage, hopefully the designer provided a sufficient amp for the system's sensitivity/capability.

 

[ryanosaur]

Also, Outlaw may not warehouse at their headquarters. Some of my Outlaw gear shipped from Oregon.

 

[Pogre]

Dont get hung up on wattage, hopefully the designer provided a sufficient amp for the system's sensitivity/capability.

This is true. A 3 dB more sensitive design requires half the power for the same spl so wattage isn't always an accurate predictor for performance.

 

[XEagleDriver]

Here is my vote, dual PC2000 Pro.

Superb sound, easy to move, relatively little floorspace . . . whats wrong with this plan ?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[Pogre]

Here is my vote, dual PC2000 Pro.

Superb sound, easy to move, relatively little floorspace . . . whats wrong with this plan ?

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

I agree. I do think these would work well for op. The only reason I even mentioned the larger Monolith is because the price is pretty close for a lot more sub. Realistically probably more sub than is necessary, but the price is nice and he wouldn't have to use it to full potential. They'd probably last forever.

*Edit: That's a really nice, clean looking setup you got there! I do like how the cylinders look. I'll bet that sounds awesome.
**The panels behind the speakers are nice too. Almost unnoticeable really. They blend well with the room.

 

[lovinthehd]

There's also diy options for the PC style sub, too....

 

[Pogre]

There's also diy options for the PC style sub, too....

Those Sonosubs! Those are cool and don't look too complicated to make.

How to Make a DIY Cylinder Subwoofer (aka Sonosub)

This is a how-to guide for making a sonosub-style DIY cylinder subwoofer. It is an excellent resource if you're thinking of building your own subwoofer, which you can easily build from sonotube (ducting pipe).

spinditty.com

 

[lovinthehd]

You can also on the diy front go with your own design, using software like winisd or bass box pro, to determine parameters for any driver you'd like. Forgot to mention that.

 

[XEagleDriver]

I agree. I do think these would work well for op.

That's a really nice, clean looking setup you got there! I do like how the cylinders look. I'll bet that sounds awesome.
**The panels behind the speakers are nice too. Almost unnoticeable really. They blend well with the room.

Thanks, it was forum folks like you who led me to go the PC route, glad I did!


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[vader540is]

Have you demoed them for yourself? What were your impressions? What about PSA and Rhythmik compared to one of Monoprice's THX Ultra certified subwoofers were better to you? Which models did you compare?

Yes I have demoed a FV15HP & TV1512. My buddy brought over his Monolith 15

The Rythmik and PSA were on another level...they made the monolith and my PB4000 sound "muddy." I wish I would have taken some REW measurements to see what was going on.

I ordered a PB16 and was extremely underwhelmed.

I currently own a TV1812 and I have plenty of mid-bass, TR and ULF. I get usable output down to 9.5hz, ill be adding a 2nd one later to fix a couple of nulls.

My living room is 16x14x9 with two wide open doorways on a concrete slab.

 

[Danzilla31]

Dont get hung up on wattage, hopefully the designer provided a sufficient amp for the system's sensitivity/capability.

So glad you pointed this out. With the right amp paired to the right sub it doesn't take much at all one of my subs up in the front stage is only getting 500 watts and I doubt it's using even half of that. And that thing shakes that room I have to turn it down.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Whether you DIY or buy the subs, I vote for passive subs so you can always use your own external amps or sub-amps.

 

[Pogre]

Yes I have demoed a FV15HP & TV1512. My buddy brought over his Monolith 15

The Rythmik and PSA were on another level...they made the monolith and my PB4000 sound "muddy." I wish I would have taken some REW measurements to see what was going on.

I ordered a PB16 and was extremely underwhelmed.

I currently own a TV1812 and I have plenty of mid-bass, TR and ULF. I get usable output down to 9.5hz, ill be adding a 2nd one later to fix a couple of nulls.

My living room is 16x14x9 with two wide open doorways on a concrete slab.

So you set up 3 different 150 lb subwoofers in the same system and compared them all? Accurately? With no measuring? How?? Your buddy just happened to own a Mono 15? Didn't they just come out?