HF Drivers after Crossover

[Tron21]

Good Morning All,

I'm new to the audio world, I am setting up a sound system in my garage for my use when I work in there or just to chill out, and have a question. I have a DBX 234xs crossover that splits the outputs to Lows, Mids, and highs. from the High output of the crossover, i'm going to a crown AMP that feeds 2 JBLs 2426J HF drivers, the question is, should I install any type of filtering before connecting to the driver or is it ok just going from the AMP to the drivers since I have the crossover.

Than k you.
Tom.

 

[TLS Guy]

Good Morning All,

I'm new to the audio world, I am setting up a sound system in my garage for my use when I work in there or just to chill out, and have a question. I have a DBX 234xs crossover that splits the outputs to Lows, Mids, and highs. from the High output of the crossover, i'm going to a crown AMP that feeds 2 JBLs 2426J HF drivers, the question is, should I install any type of filtering before connecting to the driver or is it ok just going from the AMP to the drivers since I have the crossover.

Than k you.
Tom.

Your description is vague. I assume you have three, two channel power amps. Is that correct? If that is so, You will need caps in series with the tweeters for sure, to protect them from power amp pops ad clicks.

How are you going to set crossover frequencies and orders, and level the output to the drivers for flat response. What you are attempting I suspect is a lot more complex than you think.

 

[Tron21]

yes, you are correct, I've set the crossover frequencies from what I saw in YouTube videos and some posts I read, but this is what I have
input signal to -> DBX1231 EQ -> DBX 234xs
DBX234 xs Low output to Crown xls 5000 -> Yamaha 18" subs
DBX234 xs Mid output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL JRX 115
DBX234 xs High output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL 2426J with 2370 horns.

I will have to read up on Orders and flat response, I know it is more complex than what i understand but I am willing to read and try to learn. Thank you for responding and providing more info that i can research and learn.

 

[Pogre]

Oh boy...

yes, you are correct, I've set the crossover frequencies from what I saw in YouTube videos and some posts I read, but this is what I have
input signal to -> DBX1231 EQ -> DBX 234xs
DBX234 xs Low output to Crown xls 5000 -> Yamaha 18" subs
DBX234 xs Mid output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL JRX 115
DBX234 xs High output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL 2426J with 2370 horns.

I will have to read up on Orders and flat response, I know it is more complex than what i understand but I am willing to read and try to learn. Thank you for responding and providing more info that i can research and learn.

This is way, way more complex than you know. You may get a speaker that produces sound, but it's not gonna be anything close to a good speaker. There's a lot that goes into designing a speaker from driver selection to the cabinet to the crossovers. They all have to work together and they don't always work together. The cabinet needs to be the right size for the driver, the crossovers have to be specific to the drivers, impedance, sensitivity, tuning... and 3 way designs up the complexity even more. You're biting off a lot with this project.

 

[TLS Guy]

yes, you are correct, I've set the crossover frequencies from what I saw in YouTube videos and some posts I read, but this is what I have
input signal to -> DBX1231 EQ -> DBX 234xs
DBX234 xs Low output to Crown xls 5000 -> Yamaha 18" subs
DBX234 xs Mid output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL JRX 115
DBX234 xs High output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL 2426J with 2370 horns.

I will have to read up on Orders and flat response, I know it is more complex than what i understand but I am willing to read and try to learn. Thank you for responding and providing more info that i can research and learn.

That makes no sense, and it is incomprehensible. Unfortunately you do not have sufficient foundational knowledge to be able to help you.

 

[lovinthehd]

yes, you are correct, I've set the crossover frequencies from what I saw in YouTube videos and some posts I read, but this is what I have
input signal to -> DBX1231 EQ -> DBX 234xs
DBX234 xs Low output to Crown xls 5000 -> Yamaha 18" subs
DBX234 xs Mid output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL JRX 115
DBX234 xs High output to Crown xls 802 -> JBL 2426J with 2370 horns.

I will have to read up on Orders and flat response, I know it is more complex than what i understand but I am willing to read and try to learn. Thank you for responding and providing more info that i can research and learn.

So what crossover points/slopes does that translate to ? Why is the graphic eq in there before the crossover and how do you plan to use it particularly? The subs and compression driver/horn somewhat might make sense, but a two-way speaker for the mid range? Does seem a frankenstein setup overall. I think the expectation was you were building a speaker with various drivers....

 

[Tron21]

That makes no sense, and it is incomprehensible. Unfortunately you do not have sufficient foundational knowledge to be able to help you.

No problem, thanks anyway.

 

[Tron21]

Oh boy...

This is way, way more complex than you know. You may get a speaker that produces sound, but it's not gonna be anything close to a good speaker. There's a lot that goes into designing a speaker from driver selection to the cabinet to the crossovers. They all have to work together and they don't always work together. The cabinet needs to be the right size for the driver, the crossovers have to be specific to the drivers, impedance, sensitivity, tuning... and 3 way designs up the complexity even more. You're biting off a lot with this project.

first of all thanks for the feedback, like i said this is for my garage nothing fancy, like I said before, I'm trying to learn, and everyone is not great when they start, so if i messed up NP, ill correct it as I learn, thanks.

 

[Pogre]

first of all thanks for the feedback, like i said this is for my garage nothing fancy, like I said before, I'm trying to learn, and everyone is not great when they start, so if i messed up NP, ill correct it as I learn, thanks.

If you're in the learning phase still, I would suggest starting out with a 2 way design 1st, and do the homework before you buy any components at all. What you have going right now is a great big "?" as to whether everything will even work together at all. The wrong combination can actually damage your amplifier.

 

[Tron21]

So what crossover points/slopes does that translate to ? Why is the graphic eq in there before the crossover and how do you plan to use it particularly? The subs and compression driver/horn somewhat might make sense, but a two-way speaker for the mid range? Does seem a frankenstein setup overall. I think the expectation was you were building a speaker with various drivers....

I've been getting most of my info from youtube,
crossover points:
Low/Low-Mid = 100Hz
Low-Mid/High-Mid = 2K

all videos showed the EQ before the crossover, I will mostly play music from MP3 files, speakers came with cabinets, Yamaha sw118IV club series, jrx115, jbl2426j, mostly got them because the prices were good, i'll change out the 2 way speaker on the mid range, or maybe I can disconnect the horn on that cabinet. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Tron21]

If you're in the learning phase still, I would suggest starting out with a 2 way design 1st, and do the homework before you buy any components at all. What you have going right now is a great big "?" as to whether everything will even work together at all. The wrong combination can actually damage your amplifier.

Thanks, I will do more homework on what i have right now, and change components as needed, appreciate the feedback.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, I will do more homework on what i have right now, and change components as needed, appreciate the feedback.

I know sometimes some of the replies here can be curt but the intent comes from a good place. Designing a speaker requires a level of experience and knowledge to pull off well, and can lead to disastrous results at worse if you don't know the what, why and how of it. Nobody wants to see someone accidentally fry an amplifier!

 

[Tron21]

I know sometimes some of the replies here can be curt but the intent comes from a good place. Designing a speaker requires a level of experience and knowledge to pull off well, and can lead to disastrous results at worse if you don't know the what, why and how of it. Nobody wants to see someone accidentally fry an amplifier!

I understand, it just seems everyone expects you to be a pro, even after clearly saying "I'm new to this" but I do understand, Thanks.

 

[highfigh]

Thanks, I will do more homework on what i have right now, and change components as needed, appreciate the feedback.

What is your definition of 'nothing fancy' in a garage? Most people have a boom box or maybe a Bluetooth speaker.

The crossover points are determined by the drivers. Period. You need to know what the drivers are capable of before selecting these because picking a very low point could mean that you're limiting the driver WRT it's capabilities or it may be too low for the driver to survive (mostly in mids and tweeters).

How large is your garage? These speakers are made for PA systems and that means their dispersion from the horns will be more narrow than a regular tweeter and the JBL spec sheet shows 90°x50° (horizontal & vertical, respectively).

What do you hope to accomplish by creating such a 'brute force' system in a garage? Are you going to attempt to cover a large area outside of the garage or will you generally be inside of the garage when you use it? Garages aren't generally 'audio-friendly'- what do you plan to do about the acoustics?

 

[Tron21]

By nothing fancy I meant that I would not be playing or using any instruments, I'm just playing music from my phone or using a DJ controller, and my garage is only 20ft x 20ft, but I just want a nice clean sound, and if i want crank it up, i want to be able to do it and still have clean sound without distortion. regarding the acoustics, not really thought about it. mostly playing music inside only with close door.

 

[highfigh]

I understand, it just seems everyone expects you to be a pro, even after clearly saying "I'm new to this" but I do understand, Thanks.

You don't need to be a pro but in order to build this kind of system, you need to know certain things and from your posts, I think you need to learn more about how a PA/Professional audio system is assembled, set up and used. In a normal garage, this is beyond overkill. It may be very cool once it's set up, but it's still overkill. In a garage, those speakers will be loud with only one Watt going to them- the specs show 98dB sensitivity and that's more sensitive than the vast majority of consumer-oriented speakers. IF you ever raise the level to the point where the amps are at max output whole you're in the garage, you WILL permanently damage your hearing if you're there for less than 5 minutes. The link shows the exposure limits from OSHA and if you look at the info that looks like it came from an old printer, it shows 15 minutes- 115dB. Your two way speakers will reach that level at 50W.

Here's the JBL spec sheet for the JRX115-

file:///C:/Users/USER/Downloads/JBL_JRX115.pdf

OSHA noise exposure-

1910.95 - Occupational noise exposure. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

 

[highfigh]

By nothing fancy I meant that I would not be playing or using any instruments, I'm just playing music from my phone or using a DJ controller, and my garage is only 20ft x 20ft, but I just want a nice clean sound, and if i want crank it up, i want to be able to do it and still have clean sound without distortion. regarding the acoustics, not really thought about it. mostly playing music inside only with close door.

I don't know if you have actually used the system but if not, you might be surprised by the volume level and quality of sound in a garage of that size with much less equipment and power. I understand if you already had the equipment but that's more than enough for a decent-sized band.

I have an old Sony stereo receiver and a pair of 8" two way speakers in my garage- the receiver is only 55W/channel, but it sounds great- if I wanted more output, I would need more power and slightly larger speakers but the sound quality is very good. I can hear the music when I use my table saw while wearing ear plugs.

 

[Tron21]

You don't need to be a pro but in order to build this kind of system, you need to know certain things and from your posts, I think you need to learn more about how a PA/Professional audio system is assembled, set up and used. In a normal garage, this is beyond overkill. It may be very cool once it's set up, but it's still overkill. In a garage, those speakers will be loud with only one Watt going to them- the specs show 98dB sensitivity and that's more sensitive than the vast majority of consumer-oriented speakers. IF you ever raise the level to the point where the amps are at max output whole you're in the garage, you WILL permanently damage your hearing if you're there for less than 5 minutes. The link shows the exposure limits from OSHA and if you look at the info that looks like it came from an old printer, it shows 15 minutes- 115dB. Your two way speakers will reach that level at 50W.

Here's the JBL spec sheet for the JRX115-

file:///C:/Users/USER/Downloads/JBL_JRX115.pdf

OSHA noise exposure-

1910.95 - Occupational noise exposure. | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov

That is scary, thank you for the info. I'll have to look at getting a device to measure db levels to set the volume properly,

 

[Eppie]

Thanks, I will do more homework on what i have right now, and change components as needed, appreciate the feedback.

Bear in mind that there are some very knowledgeable speaker builders here. Some have decades of experience in speaker design and the thought of cobbling together some mismatched components probably has them cringing in their seats. The JRX 115 is a full range speaker but those professional model speakers are not really intended for home use. The frequency response is only 38Hz to 16kHz so it lacks in both the bottom and top end for music play back. They are fine in a bar or outdoor setting but in a quiet home they won't perform like a well designed home stereo speaker. I can understand what you trying to accomplish by adding subwoofers and a compression horn.

My advice with the JRX 115 is to just supplement the bass with a subwoofer build. Are the Yamaha speakers already in a proper bass cabinet? Sounds like you have some professional grade gear that you are trying to adapt to home use. Look up the specs on the Yamaha speakers and you could determine a proper crossover point. 80 Hz is typical for home speakers but the 100Hz you read about could work too. You then need to level match the subs to your main speakers. I would not add the compression horn. If the garage has concrete floors and bare walls it will likely be very reflective and bright sounding to begin with.

And I agree with highfigh. Those speakers are very efficient and you have plenty of power with the Crown amps. In a relatively small space like a garage you really need to watch the volume levels so that you don't damage your hearing. You can install a decibel meter app on your smartphone and look up some safety tables on the web. If you use the EQ, don't boost the levels too much or set it for a smiley face curve like people did in the 80's. Start with the EQ flat and only make small adjustments where needed. If most of the EQ settings are above neutral then you are supplying a much stronger signal to the amps.

 

[Tron21]

Bear in mind that there are some very knowledgeable speaker builders here. Some have decades of experience in speaker design and the thought of cobbling together some mismatched components probably has them cringing in their seats. The JRX 115 is a full range speaker but those professional model speakers are not really intended for home use. The frequency response is only 38Hz to 16kHz so it lacks in both the bottom and top end for music play back. They are fine in a bar or outdoor setting but in a quiet home they won't perform like a well designed home stereo speaker. I can understand what you trying to accomplish by adding subwoofers and a compression horn.

My advice with the JRX 115 is to just supplement the bass with a subwoofer build. Are the Yamaha speakers already in a proper bass cabinet? Sounds like you have some professional grade gear that you are trying to adapt to home use. Look up the specs on the Yamaha speakers and you could determine a proper crossover point. 80 Hz is typical for home speakers but the 100Hz you read about could work too. You then need to level match the subs to your main speakers. I would not add the compression horn. If the garage has concrete floors and bare walls it will likely be very reflective and bright sounding to begin with.

And I agree with highfigh. Those speakers are very efficient and you have plenty of power with the Crown amps. In a relatively small space like a garage you really need to watch the volume levels so that you don't damage your hearing. You can install a decibel meter app on your smartphone and look up some safety tables on the web. If you use the EQ, don't boost the levels too much or set it for a smiley face curve like people did in the 80's. Start with the EQ flat and only make small adjustments where needed. If most of the EQ settings are above neutral then you are supplying a much stronger signal to the amps.

I appreciate everyone's advice, thank you all, on the Yamahas yes they came with a factory cabinet, they are the club series IV, and you are right on the money with the garage, bare wall and cement floor. on the EQ it is set flat on the middle , then I should get rid of the jrx 115 and get subwoofer, (I will read up before I do it), thank you.