Recapping Emotiva Airmotiv 4s Powered Monitors cost question

[Cos]

The Speaker Caps need full replacement on my 6 year old Emotiva Airmotiv 4

I took them in to a local repair shop that quoted me $200.00 for a complete recap of both speakers, does that pricing sound fair? I am asking because I have no idea, but will be tossing the speakers if that is the case. They only charged me $50 to diagnose which could be applied to repair, which I thought was fair.

Emotiva was nice enough to send the schematics, if that helps at all

 

[lovinthehd]

What the heck happened in 6 years?

 

[TLS Guy]

The Speaker Caps need full replacement on my 6 year old Emotiva Airmotiv 4

I took them in to a local repair shop that quoted me $200.00 for a complete recap of both speakers, does that pricing sound fair? I am asking because I have no idea, but will be tossing the speakers if that is the case. They only charged me $50 to diagnose which could be applied to repair, which I thought was fair.

Emotiva was nice enough to send the schematics, if that helps at all



View attachment 53886View attachment 53887

I find it hard to believe that 24 caps need replacing after 6 years. I have never heard of such a thing. If true then that is a new low in modern manufacture.

If all those caps do need replacing that is a more than fair price, as that will be close to a day's work.

Have you really pushed them as to why all 12 caps in each speaker need replacing?

Did both speakers fail at the same time and the same way?

When I had my 60 year old Quad 22 preamp restored there was only 1 bad cap after 60 years. That is a tube unit, were the voltages are 300 volts across some caps.

Only the bad cap was replaced. If those speakers really do have 24 bad caps after 6 years, then I'm pretty much ready to despair.

 

[Cos]

I just found out today, both speakers are acting the same way. The noise only happens when I turn them on or off otherwise they play music fine. I had no idea how may caps were in each one as that is way out of my area of expertise. I will call them tomorrow and ask them to tell me why all caps need to be replaced on both speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

Why is the noise the speakers' fault particularly?

 

[TLS Guy]

I just found out today, both speakers are acting the same way. The noise only happens when I turn them on or off otherwise they play music fine. I had no idea how may caps were in each one as that is way out of my area of expertise. I will call them tomorrow and ask them to tell me why all caps need to be replaced on both speakers.

They don't need replacing. They are taking you for a ride. It is not uncommon for caps to make a noise as an amp shuts down. It is nothing to worry about.
If you keep worrying about this you meet criteria for obsessional compulsive disorder, and that treatment will cost you more than the caps!

 

[TLS Guy]

Why is the noise the speakers' fault particularly?

They are active speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

They are active speakers.

Brain fart, just not thinking Emotiva even had active speakers despite the clear title Still don't understand why a turn on/off noise would necessitate replacement of an entire suite of caps otoh.

 

[TLS Guy]

Brain fart, just not thinking Emotiva even had active speakers despite the clear title Still don't understand why a turn on/off noise would necessitate replacement of an entire suite of caps otoh.

Don't waste your neurons on that rubbish. The caps are fine. This is common. All my Quad 909s make a very brief soft noise a second or two after you power them down. This is common and nothing to worry about. Avoid that repair business in future.

 

[lovinthehd]

How does turning on/off other gear in a particular sequence affect this "problem" ?

 

[TLS Guy]

How does turning on/off other gear in a particular sequence affect this "problem" ?

That depends on a lot of factors, pretty much all receivers, and a great many power amps, have a relay on an LM timer between the power amp and the speakers. This is because most solid state direct coupled power amps have a speaker busting turn on thump. These amps need a relay on a timer circuit to protect the speakers from the vicious turn on thump. These relays open as soon as the power to the amp is cut. It just so happens that no Quad amps have ever had a turn on thump. So no Quad amp produced, at least in Peter Walker's da,y ever had a turn on thump. That is not the sort of thing he would have tolerated.

So for most amps you are not going to hear the turn on or any capacitor discharge noise. However if you start a power amp first then if a unit ahead of the power amp has a thump you will hear it.

Now pre/pros must have a turn on thump or at least Marantz. My Marantz pre/pro have a delayed relay disconnecting the outputs for a few seconds after firing up.

However I don't chance it, and do not activate my power amps in sequence until I hear the relay in the pre/pro click and connect the outputs.

I sequence starting my power amps manually. Even with my magnetic shunt breakers if I start them all at once it will still blow the breakers. Without the magnetic shunt breakers installed I can not start any amp sets except the center channel amp without blowing the breaker. The three left an right dual channel amps are on one relay, the center on another, and the single center dual channel amp on a relay, the surrounds and four ceiling three dual channel amps on another relay, and the two dual channel amps for the rear back on the last relay. There are two circuits to the power amp case, both have magnetic shunt breakers.

 

[Cos]

They don't need replacing. They are taking you for a ride. It is not uncommon for caps to make a noise as an amp shuts down. It is nothing to worry about.
If you keep worrying about this you meet criteria for obsessional compulsive disorder, and that treatment will cost you more than the caps!

They didn't do it until just recently I noticed when I moved my office around to accommodate my standing desk. The turn off I am used to, my older Paradigm sub does that when I turn it off/auto shut off. When I turn it on is what concerned me. I thought I would get it checked out before it lead to something worse. They probably just told me all caps because they don't want to bother to fix anything. They place was well reviewed.

 

[lovinthehd]

That depends on a lot of factors, pretty much all receivers, and a great many power amps, have a relay on an LM timer between the power amp and the speakers. This is because most solid state direct coupled power amps have a speaker busting turn on thump. These amps need a relay on a timer circuit to protect the speakers from the vicious turn on thump. These relays open as soon as the power to the amp is cut. It just so happens that no Quad amps have ever had a turn on thump. So no Quad amp produced, at least in Peter Walker's da,y ever had a turn on thump. That is not the sort of thing he would have tolerated.

So for most amps you are not going to hear the turn on or any capacitor discharge noise. However if you start a power amp first then if a unit ahead of the power amp has a thump you will hear it.

Now pre/pros must have a turn on thump or at least Marantz. My Marantz pre/pro have a delayed relay disconnecting the outputs for a few seconds after firing up.

However I don't chance it, and do not activate my power amps in sequence until I hear the relay in the pre/pro click and connect the outputs.

I sequence starting my power amps manually. Even with my magnetic shunt breakers if I start them all at once it will still blow the breakers. Without the magnetic shunt breakers installed I can not start any amp sets except the center channel amp without blowing the breaker. The three left an right dual channel amps are on one relay, the center on another, and the single center dual channel amp on a relay, the surrounds and four ceiling three dual channel amps on another relay, and the two dual channel amps for the rear back on the last relay. There are two circuits to the power amp case, both have magnetic shunt breakers.

I meant what would the affects possibly be for these speakers, or maybe what gear he's using might particularly affect it.

 

[Cos]

Tried to upload a link lets see if this works, this is the noise it makes when it turns on, apparently the turn off was quiet. There is nothing plugged into it other than the power cord.

 

[TLS Guy]

Tried to upload a link lets see if this works, this is the noise it makes when it turns on, apparently the turn off was quiet. There is nothing plugged into it other than the power cord.

That is just the output stage producing variable DC off set as the power supply rails ramp up. This is common, with most amps having much worse noise. So much so that they need a relay on an LM timer circuit to cut out the speakers for 10 sec to prevent damage to the speaker.

They could have changed all those caps and and made it worse just as easily. In any event, most of those caps have nothing to do with creating that noise. So the advice they gave you was WRONG BAD ADVICE. It stood a good chance of damaging a circuit board. That shop does not earn good reviews in my opinion. I would not seek their advice again.

 

[Cos]

That is just the output stage producing variable DC off set as the power supply rails ramp up. This is common, with most amps having much worse noise. So much so that they need a relay on an LM timer circuit to cut out the speakers for 10 sec to prevent damage to the speaker.

They could have changed all those caps and and made it worse just as easily. In any event, most of those caps have nothing to do with creating that noise. So the advice they gave you was WRONG BAD ADVICE. It stood a good chance of damaging a circuit board. That shop does not earn good reviews in my opinion. I would not seek their advice again.

Much thanks, greatly appreciated from noobs like myself who know nothing about the servicing of my gear

 

[highfigh]

I just found out today, both speakers are acting the same way. The noise only happens when I turn them on or off otherwise they play music fine. I had no idea how may caps were in each one as that is way out of my area of expertise. I will call them tomorrow and ask them to tell me why all caps need to be replaced on both speakers.

The woofer didn't move much- did you contact Emotiva, to ask if this is a problem? If anyone should know, it's them but generally, it's not a problem unless the cone remains in the in/out position. I can post a video of one of my bass guitar amps- the cone doesn't move much because it's not nearly as compliant as a music reproduction speaker but the thump is definitely audible. It's also very common among musical instrument amplifiers.

If these have RCA jacks for the input, short the input and turn them on or connect whatever would normally be connected but turn that on first- same sound?

 

[slipperybidness]

Here's the deal-- they may have found a bad cap, and just don't want to mess with a single cap for a nickel and dime, and also take on the liability of future repairs due to similar age and manufacturing date for all of the other caps. By the time they replace a cap or 2, may as well recap the entire board and be done with it.

I learned this with my internal electronics repair shop at my job, where they had absolutely no incentive to oversell me nor to spend more time on repairs than necessary (all the $ is in the same bucket). I had a PC give me BSOD, I inspected and found a bulging cap. Took it to internal repair, and that is exactly what they told me-- "In this scenario, we just replace all of the caps so we know this will not be coming back later for more caps, which wastes more time and $".

So, full recap of 2 boards, parts and labor for $200 is perfectly reasonable pricing.

Personally, I would do my own labor, but I already have the tools and experience. Even if you just have the tools, the experience would be worth the repair.

 

[Cos]

Here's the deal-- they may have found a bad cap, and just don't want to mess with a single cap for a nickel and dime, and also take on the liability of future repairs due to similar age and manufacturing date for all of the other caps. By the time they replace a cap or 2, may as well recap the entire board and be done with it.

I learned this with my internal electronics repair shop at my job, where they had absolutely no incentive to oversell me nor to spend more time on repairs than necessary (all the $ is in the same bucket). I had a PC give me BSOD, I inspected and found a bulging cap. Took it to internal repair, and that is exactly what they told me-- "In this scenario, we just replace all of the caps so we know this will not be coming back later for more caps, which wastes more time and $".

So, full recap of 2 boards, parts and labor for $200 is perfectly reasonable pricing.

Personally, I would do my own labor, but I already have the tools and experience. Even if you just have the tools, the experience would be worth the repair.

That was my initial thought, I do not have experience with soldering, so didn't want to try it. I have a VP of IT in my office that fixes old audio gear and is going to give it a shot.

As for the pricing it's $400 not 200, its 200 per board, which I wont pay for $300 speakers lol. It gives me just enough excuse to upgrade and get the KEF LSX's. Just deciding if I want to wait until June for the upgraded model that is suppose to come out.

 

[Cos]

The woofer didn't move much- did you contact Emotiva, to ask if this is a problem? If anyone should know, it's them but generally, it's not a problem unless the cone remains in the in/out position. I can post a video of one of my bass guitar amps- the cone doesn't move much because it's not nearly as compliant as a music reproduction speaker but the thump is definitely audible. It's also very common among musical instrument amplifiers.

If these have RCA jacks for the input, short the input and turn them on or connect whatever would normally be connected but turn that on first- same sound?

Emotiva pretty much wants nothing to do with any of their gear once it's out of warranty, at least that's my impression. They sound fine once they are turned on, I can still use them. I took them in because I thought I should get them checked out before it became a more serious problem.