Denon AVR-1912 and Energy Connoisseur CF-30 Issues

[justin.renaud]

Hi guys, I have a Denon AVR-1912 receiver running Energy Connoisseur CF-30s speakers. Reviews on these speakers seem to be great, but when connected they seem VERY lackluster. To the point where I need to turn the volume up to -20db to get anything decently loud. I've now blown one of the tweeters because of this. Reading up it seems the receiver seems underpowered for these? They also offer effectively no bass even though they mention their strong bass. I have no understanding on ohms and sensitivity, so I'm curious if these draw too much from my receiver.

On a secondary note, my powered sub at one point sounded great, and one day I was adjusting settings, now it has a muddled sound, almost like its not connected properly. More of a drone sound than a thumping bass, if that makes sense.

To note:
- Energy CF-30s have a sensitivity of 90db, and are 8ohms nominal, so seems they should work fine with the AVR 1912.
- Speaker Crossover is set to 120hz
- Speaker Config is: Front-Large, Center-none, Subwoofer-Yes, Surround - None
- Bass setting is LFE+Main, LPF for LPE is 90hz
- Bass Crossover is set to 250hz (if I set to anything lower I get no bass from my subwoofer)
- I no longer have the Audyssey mic which I know is a main setup feature
- Powered Sub is a Boston Acoustics MCS 160 (was plenty powerful before I messed with the settings)

Sorry for all the rookie questions, I'd just like much better sound and think I just have the settings wrong. Or I want to purchase better speakers, but fear I'll run into the same issue if I don't know what to buy / look for / setup properly.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Verdinut]

Hi guys, I have a Denon AVR-1912 receiver running Energy Connoisseur CF-30s speakers. Reviews on these speakers seem to be great, but when connected they seem VERY lackluster. To the point where I need to turn the volume up to -20db to get anything decently loud. I've now blown one of the tweeters because of this. Reading up it seems the receiver seems underpowered for these? They also offer effectively no bass even though they mention their strong bass. I have no understanding on ohms and sensitivity, so I'm curious if these draw too much from my receiver.

On a secondary note, my powered sub at one point sounded great, and one day I was adjusting settings, now it has a muddled sound, almost like its not connected properly. More of a drone sound than a thumping bass, if that makes sense.

To note:
- Energy CF-30s have a sensitivity of 90db, and are 8ohms nominal, so seems they should work fine with the AVR 1912.
- Speaker Crossover is set to 120hz
- Speaker Config is: Front-Large, Center-none, Subwoofer-Yes, Surround - None
- Bass setting is LFE+Main, LPF for LPE is 90hz
- Bass Crossover is set to 250hz (if I set to anything lower I get no bass from my subwoofer)
- I no longer have the Audyssey mic which I know is a main setup feature
- Powered Sub is a Boston Acoustics MCS 160 (was plenty powerful before I messed with the settings)

Sorry for all the rookie questions, I'd just like much better sound and think I just have the settings wrong. Or I want to purchase better speakers, but fear I'll run into the same issue if I don't know what to buy / look for / setup properly.

Thanks everyone!

Well, I suspect that you like to listen to your system at high SPL, or your listening distance from the Energy CF-30s is more than 15 feet or both. It made your AVR amplifiers clip. A solid state amplifier that clips destroys tweeters.

IMO, you would need more sensitive speakers that can play louder than your CF-30s.

 

[lovinthehd]

If your avr is calibrated, -20 is loud but not extremely so, but would depend on the source. For movies that's about as loud as I listen these days myself. The avr should have no trouble driving these speakers to reasonably loud levels in any case.

How much louder than -20 did you turn it up to before they broke?

Why did you turn down the LPF for LFE to 90 from 120? Why use LFE + Main instead of LFE? If you do like the duplicated bass as high as 120 (where you have the "crossover" set) maybe you just need better subwoofage otoh. Not familiar with the sub you're using, but it's a very small 8" unit (which really isn't a true subwoofer).

What do you mean "bass crossover"....you mean the low pass filter on the sub itself?

 

[justin.renaud]

Hi Verdinut, I listen at reasonable levels most of the time, but I like to have it quite loud sometimes yes. I also listen from only 15-20 feet away. To be clear, I listen to all genres of music, not just thumping bass or loud rock. I appreciate good acoustics and good quality stereos. If that’s the case of wanting more sensitive speakers, what rating would I be looking for? Would I want something higher than 90db? Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

15-20 feet away will put additional stress on your speakers....try using this http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

90dB is fairly sensitive, there are some speakers with higher sensitivity, but 90 isn't bad (and don't believe Energy overstated such as their later parent company Klipsch is known to do). You might just need more capable speakers in terms of being able to get loud. Energy CF30s aren't particularly spl monsters....

 

[justin.renaud]

If your avr is calibrated, -20 is loud but not extremely so, but would depend on the source. For movies that's about as loud as I listen these days myself. The avr should have no trouble driving these speakers to reasonably loud levels in any case.

How much louder than -20 did you turn it up to before they broke?

Why did you turn down the LPF for LFE to 90 from 120? Why use LFE + Main instead of LFE? If you do like the duplicated bass as high as 120 (where you have the "crossover" set) maybe you just need better subwoofage otoh. Not familiar with the sub you're using, but it's a very small 8" unit (which really isn't a true subwoofer).

What do you mean "bass crossover"....you mean the low pass filter on the sub itself?

If your avr is calibrated, -20 is loud but not extremely so, but would depend on the source. For movies that's about as loud as I listen these days myself. The avr should have no trouble driving these speakers to reasonably loud levels in any case.

How much louder than -20 did you turn it up to before they broke?

Why did you turn down the LPF for LFE to 90 from 120? Why use LFE + Main instead of LFE? If you do like the duplicated bass as high as 120 (where you have the "crossover" set) maybe you just need better subwoofage otoh. Not familiar with the sub you're using, but it's a very small 8" unit (which really isn't a true subwoofer).

What do you mean "bass crossover"....you mean the low pass filter on the sub itself?

At times my friends have turned it past 0db (against my will), so I suspect that’s what did it. I have no clue what any of the ratings or settings mean. I was just changing to see if it made any difference. Those are the current settings just so you know what they’re currently at. I’m open to suggestions as to what they should be set to. Also, the 8” is quite small, but so is my room, and was more than enough when it was running properly (before I messed things up). The gain was maybe at 1/4 and gave plenty of bass. Appreciate all your help!

 

[lovinthehd]

Well since you don't have the setup mic the volume setting is somewhat meaningless, as we don't know how that was calibrated. The sub level could be okay, but it could not be matched to the mains well. Using an spl meter, even a phone app, might be a first step for you.

You can go into volume settings in the avr and place a max, and I'd suggest maybe -10 or 0; there's really no reason to expect anything but problems beyond that. That's if the volume's been calibrated for your setup, which it seems it has not.

How big a room is it? Even in a small room, an 8" sub is quite limited.

Maybe try this article https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/a-v-receiver-setup-crossover-distance-level-eq

 

[justin.renaud]

Well since you don't have the setup mic the volume setting is somewhat meaningless, as we don't know how that was calibrated. The sub level could be okay, but it could not be matched to the mains well. Using an spl meter, even a phone app, might be a first step for you.

You can go into volume settings in the avr and place a max, and I'd suggest maybe -10 or 0; there's really no reason to expect anything but problems beyond that. That's if the volume's been calibrated for your setup, which it seems it has not.

How big a room is it? Even in a small room, an 8" sub is quite limited.

Maybe try this article https://www.audioholics.com/home-theater-calibration/a-v-receiver-setup-crossover-distance-level-eq

So here's what that calculator gave me. based off my current settings, do you suggest I change anything? My room is about 150sq/ft, not huge.

 

[Verdinut]

Hi Verdinut, I listen at reasonable levels most of the time, but I like to have it quite loud sometimes yes. I also listen from only 15-20 feet away. To be clear, I listen to all genres of music, not just thumping bass or loud rock. I appreciate good acoustics and good quality stereos. If that’s the case of wanting more sensitive speakers, what rating would I be looking for? Would I want something higher than 90db? Thanks!

You mention that your room is small, but you sometimes listen at a distance of 20 feet from your speakers.

As for high sensitivity speakers that can play louder, I would suggest that you listen to used Altec Lansing loudspeakers with the A7 "Voice of the Theater" components, such as the Valencia or the model 19 models. Another option would be the Altec 604, a 15" coaxial studio monitor. These systems have a sensitivity of 99dB or more. I owned those components several years back. I enjoyed listening to them, but I had to sell as they were a little too big for my new apartment living room .

 

[lovinthehd]

So here's what that calculator gave me. based off my current settings, do you suggest I change anything? My room is about 150sq/ft, not huge.

View attachment 53282

Looks like you're a bit tapped out at reference levels for movies (0 on the reference scale when calibrated). If you listen that loud. Is it just a 2.1 setup? What are the room dimensions....a room where you're 20ft from the speakers isn't small in my general book

 

[-Jim-]

A long shot here on the lack of Bass, but is the polarity of the cables correct?

 

[Verdinut]

A long shot here on the lack of Bass, but is the polarity of the cables correct?

Jim,
Did you notice that the OP was using a tiny 8" woofer. An 8" driver will never produce effective infrasonic frequencies in his average sized room, with one of the dimensions of at least 15 feet. That would explain to some extent the lack of bass.