A Question Regarding Something I Was Once Told About Setting Trim Levels for Atmos Speakers...

[lovinthehd]

Well, I'd be ordering from a reputable outlet (probably via Crutchfield or something along those lines) so...



I assumed this, as it's always the way it worked in the past, but with these new models you just don't know; seemed like I'd have to attempt a magic act of some kind in order to play back plain vanilla Dolby Digital...

Which brings me to:



So these new AVRs WILL remember the last sound mode chosen for a particular SIGNAL?

In other words, if I, say, watch a DVD with a two-channel soundtrack, and choose an upmixer mode to spread it correctly through my 5.1 channel arrangement, then watch a disc right after that with, say, a Dolby Atmos track, the AVR WILL remember to go into that "upmixed" mode the next time I watch a DVD with a two-channel track?

That's the way it works in all my avrs. The movie/music/game sound mode will remember what you last used for a given codec/signal per input. I know treb mentioned his Onkyo didn't but I just looked at an Onkyo RZ50 manual and it basically has the same language as my Denon manuals, but I think treb was also using some particular settings aside from sound mode/listening mode. That's essentially how I handle most 2ch movie content, the avr remembers I use the Dolby PLIIx mode (and depends if it is the movie/music/game mode within the input, can remember particular eligible sound modes for each of the three within the input). You can always check the manual, it's usually with the first mention of sound mode/listening mode in the manuals I looked at.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Again, mine have always done that too.

Some thing to remember is that while it might be easy to think about Atmos being about overhead sounds, it’s not that simple.
In the same way that all the speakers in a normal layout phantom image between pairs of speakers horizontally and creates smooth panning around the room, Atmos does the same thing but it also does so between the ear level “bed” speakers and the height/top speakers. This creates the 3D effect and allows for XYZ coordinate placement. I’ve seen where people will say to watch a movie with only the top/height speakers active and see what they’re doing. That’s fine, but it doesn’t give the whole story. Just like watching a film with only the LCR, or only the surrounds active. Doesn’t tell you everything. It’s how they work TOGETHER!
Also, I know you watch a lot of older films. DSU and DTSnx do a great job of upmixing legacy material. So you can always get a good experience. I know you’re concerned with the new upmixers improperly navigating sounds from older tracks but it’s not something to worry about IMO. Hell, even wheel of fortune sounds good upmixed!

So while in your case you might get sound “on the ceiling” it won’t be IN the room. Keep in mind too, not all material takes advantage of this. But there are some that do, and music in Atmos can be INSANE!!!

To the question about adding rear surrounds, I don’t know. I would rather see you try to add a pair of bed layer surrounds and try to use the current IC speakers as tops. Even if they’re behind and not just in front.

 

[snakeeyes]

Definitely easiest to adjust the dB on the Atmos speakers while watching an Atmos movie with a lot of good scenes such as Ready Player One. Try plus 1 dB or plus 2 dB and compare a scene of the movie. Then adjust and play that same scene.

 

[snakeeyes]

The other option between bouncy speakers and in-ceiling speakers is on wall speakers such as SVS Elevation series. Those have a free return policy too.

 

[Huey645]

Again, mine have always done that too.

Some thing to remember is that while it might be easy to think about Atmos being about overhead sounds, it’s not that simple.
In the same way that all the speakers in a normal layout phantom image between pairs of speakers horizontally and creates smooth panning around the room, Atmos does the same thing but it also does so between the ear level “bed” speakers and the height/top speakers. This creates the 3D effect and allows for XYZ coordinate placement. I’ve seen where people will say to watch a movie with only the top/height speakers active and see what they’re doing. That’s fine, but it doesn’t give the whole story. Just like watching a film with only the LCR, or only the surrounds active. Doesn’t tell you everything. It’s how they work TOGETHER!
Also, I know you watch a lot of older films. DSU and DTSnx do a great job of upmixing legacy material. So you can always get a good experience. I know you’re concerned with the new upmixers improperly navigating sounds from older tracks but it’s not something to worry about IMO. Hell, even wheel of fortune sounds good upmixed!

So while in your case you might get sound “on the ceiling” it won’t be IN the room. Keep in mind too, not all material takes advantage of this. But there are some that do, and music in Atmos can be INSANE!!!

To the question about adding rear surrounds, I don’t know. I would rather see you try to add a pair of bed layer surrounds and try to use the current IC speakers as tops. Even if they’re behind and not just in front.

This! It's not just about the overhead affects, it's about tying the action more to the screen. There's a scene early in Rogue One, and I forget the bad guys name, but he flies his ship off the planet and you can hear the sweep in the lower corner going up to the atmos speakers, matching the action in the scene.

I do run my atmos speakers about 2 db hot, and really need to get some new direct radiators as I'm just using some old polk dipole/bipole speakers I had lying around.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Thanks, everyone.

 

[Kaskade89052]

One other thing I thought of, fellas....

We know that it's important to timbre-match at least the front soundstage, so what brand should I pick for the Atmos bouncy speakers if I decide to go down that road? Does Polk (to match my front stage) even make Atmos modules?

 

[lovinthehd]

You might check shadyJs recent article to start? https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-audio-myths

Of my four multich systems, only one has a matching center (and that one is not a dedicated center design, just the same speaker as L/R). I did have another with the matching center but it was a bit small and two way so changed it out for a 3 way, from a related brand altho that's not particularly relevant, and it's working great. The compromised design of centers in general....

 

[Kaskade89052]

You might check shadyJs recent article to start? https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-audio-myths

Of my four multich systems, only one has a matching center (and that one is not a dedicated center design, just the same speaker as L/R). I did have another with the matching center but it was a bit small and two way so changed it out for a 3 way, from a related brand altho that's not particularly relevant, and it's working great. The compromised design of centers in general....

But I already have the matched L/C/R front stage; I was wondering if it was necessary to match Atmos modules in terms of brand.

 

[lovinthehd]

The polks in your signature? If they were RTi12s across the front, I'd call that more matched TVs get in the way....

I'd be least concerned about any sort of matching with surrounds in general, let alone Atmos, in any case.

PS altho for multich music having the same speaker all around I think is nice.

 

[Kaskade89052]

The polks in your signature? If they were RTi12s across the front, I'd call that more matched TVs get in the way....

There was no way I was using an RTi12 as a center channel; the CSi30 I had from a previous system and the 12s were the closest tower match I could get at the time I set up the current rig. Polk assured me it was a very, very close match even though it wasn't the 100-percent perfect match (the CSi30 was from a previous generation of RT speakers).

I'd be least concerned about any sort of matching with surrounds in general, let alone Atmos, in any case.

So you're saying you don't believe it's that important to match a brand for the bouncy modules? I know matching surround speakers and subs isn't that vital...

 

[lovinthehd]

Hard to even consider bouncy modules in the first place No, don't think it's critical in any case.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Hard to even consider bouncy modules in the first place No, don't think it's critical in any case.

Thanks.

 

[ryanosaur]

Thanks.

Atmos and surrounds are much less important to worry about matching.

 

[Kaskade89052]

Atmos and surrounds are much less important to worry about matching.

Thanks Ryan; was pretty sure it was along the lines of matching up subs and surrounds (that they don't have to stick to the "timbre match" thing) but just wanted to ask.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks Ryan; was pretty sure it was along the lines of matching up subs and surrounds (that they don't have to stick to the "timbre match" thing) but just wanted to ask.

Not going against anybody here but just adding that IME matching has been much better than not matching. I’ve had Frankenstein setups and while they were fun, having speakers from the same line was much much better. As far as DAE speakers, it probably matters much less so just due to how they work. What I mean is I’m not sure that timbre is maintained with the sound bounced off of a surface. I know you are against Audyssey, but this might help make a case to use it. Maybe not…

 

[ryanosaur]

Not going against anybody here but just adding that IME matching has been much better than not matching. I’ve had Frankenstein setups and while they were fun, having speakers from the same line was much much better. As far as DAE speakers, it probably matters much less so just due to how they work. What I mean is I’m not sure that timbre is maintained with the sound bounced off of a surface. I know you are against Audyssey, but this might help make a case to use it. Maybe not…

(I like matching, myself. )

 

[Kaskade89052]

Not going against anybody here but just adding that IME matching has been much better than not matching. I’ve had Frankenstein setups and while they were fun, having speakers from the same line was much much better. As far as DAE speakers, it probably matters much less so just due to how they work. What I mean is I’m not sure that timbre is maintained with the sound bounced off of a surface. I know you are against Audyssey, but this might help make a case to use it. Maybe not…

Oh, well, I am definitely in the camp for timbre matching the front stage (that is, the left, center and right channels should at least be from the same brand and series, if possible; in my case, as I explained to lovin', I was working with an older Polk center that I couldn't get an exact match for in terms of towers, so I ended up getting a great deal on the RTi12s, which Polk advised me would be a close enough match for my center).

While perhaps ideal, I never thought the surrounds (and, to a lesser extent, the sub) needed to be matched to the front stage. You do make an interesting point about using an auto setup routine, though, once I install the bouncy speakers (if I do) in that this may help integrate the sound better -- from what I am being told, once you get into formats like Dolby Atmos and DTS:X, the need for room correction becomes almost necessary in that so much is now going on, what with spatial cues, aural planes, etc.