4-ohm receiver and speaker setup recommendations?

[lovinthehd]

I'd still go for an older multich avr on the used market if you don't need the latest/greatest audio/video formats to be routed thru the avr....but the additional speakers will help out filling the space better than just going with a 2ch unit.

 

[PENG]

That's good to know. 4-ohm is printed on the back at the terminals, but yea, if I throw 2 pairs on it, it might not work as well. Another option is the Denon PMA-600NE, which people seem to like.

As HD alluding to right from the beginning, receivers (and I would even say just about any receiver) can be used with 4 ohm speakers because unless the receive actually sense the impedance but they don't. So such receivers don't know about your speaker's impedance, they will just put out the voltage and current according to the Ohm's law. That means a responsible users like yourself would at least try to figure out what are the precautionary measures to take if they are going to use 4 ohm speakers. Take the AXR100 for instance, it is rated for 100 W into 8 ohms, so are you going to assume it will be rated 100 W into 4 ohms as well, or you would contact CA tech support and ask that question?

In my opinion it is irresponsible for Cambridge Audio to not provide a rating for 4 ohms. If they say their unit can be used with 4 ohm speakers, they should use provide a rating just like they have done with 8 ohm speakers. Without that, their customers will be left guessing, or making their own assumptions, such as assuming it will still be 100 W.

Regardless, as others mentioned, your room is quite big, and while listening from 10 ft the little receiver may be okay but every time you double the distance you will lose 6 dB of SPL and with doubling the amplifier output power you will gain only 3 dB of SPL, so you can do the math.

 

[movinginstereo]

I just spoke with a very helpful rep from Crutchfield (Andrea). She recommended the Denon AVR-S660H. It does look pretty good. I'd check out last year's models for a better price, but it seems there's not a lot available, even in the current models.

We also compared the Onkyo TX8270 audio receiver to the Onkyo TX-NR5100 theater receiver. It's an interesting comparison, since they're the same price. Major differences are the power output, DAC, and phono pre-amp. It tells me that yes, you do give up some audio quality to have all the extra capabilities associated with theater, which I might not use, except maybe the ability to plug in a center speaker.

 

[movinginstereo]

I'd still go for an older multich avr on the used market if you don't need the latest/greatest audio/video formats to be routed thru the avr....but the additional speakers will help out filling the space better than just going with a 2ch unit.

That's good to know. It seems most of the audio receivers that have A/B, don't advise A+B if the speakers are only 4-ohm, but apparently, it's OK to put two pairs of 4-ohms on a theater receiver (one main and one surround).

 

[Am_P]

I just spoke with a very helpful rep from Crutchfield (Andrea). She recommended the Denon AVR-S660H. It does look pretty good. I'd check out last year's models for a better price, but it seems there's not a lot available, even in the current models.

We also compared the Onkyo TX8270 audio receiver to the Onkyo TX-NR5100 theater receiver. It's an interesting comparison, since they're the same price. Major differences are the power output, DAC, and phono pre-amp. It tells me that yes, you do give up some audio quality to have all the extra capabilities associated with theater, which I might not use, except maybe the ability to plug in a center speaker.

Man, i've had several bottom of the barrel receivers in life and they are not the kind of stuff that's going to do your speakers any justice for any type of critical music listening. For instance, i know a guy who runs atleast 5000 dollars worth of electronics on your specific speakers. It's a Andrew Jones speaker man. That guy gives you some really good speakers for very little cash so you have more money to spend on electronics and do justice to his speakers.

Of the models you've listed, that Denon (500 USD) does neither have pre-outs nor Atmos and hence it can be deemed bottom of the barrel. The Onkyo (600 USD)at the least has Atmos, but no pre-outs.

For a 50 dollars more than that Onkyo...you will get both atmos and preouts for the front 2 channels at the least on this class AB Yamaha. It's not going to be as good as their Aventage line, which starts at 900 USD and above (where the sound quality starts to get very good), but, this should still be good.
https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/av_receivers_amps/rx-v6a/index.html

The idea behind preouts is that when you get a hold of a meaty power amp in the future, you can plug that into your receiver front preouts (give the receiver some stress relief) and you will see your speakers spring to life. You could also get a couple of atmos modules or height speakers in the future and move up to a decent 5.2.2 atmos setup. If you've never heard atmos music before (and all you've heard is 5.1), you are in for a treat.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's good to know. It seems most of the audio receivers that have A/B, don't advise A+B if the speakers are only 4-ohm, but apparently, it's OK to put two pairs of 4-ohms on a theater receiver (one main and one surround).

The avrs have amps for each channel generally, so usually 5/7/9/11 depending on avr (altho a shared master power supply), whereas the 2ch amp just has 2 amp channels, A/B are still just sharing the 2ch amp. A/B is really about 2 different rooms at different times, and use to be tempered if simultaneous, particularly with lower impedance speakers....

 

[movinginstereo]

The avrs have amps for each channel generally, so usually 5/7/9/11 depending on avr (altho a shared master power supply), whereas the 2ch amp just has 2 amp channels, A/B are still just sharing the 2ch amp. A/B is really about 2 different rooms at different times, and use to be tempered if simultaneous, particularly with lower impedance speakers....

Exactly, I don't think I have a use case for A/B, but I might have a use case for A+B and maybe, Center.

 

[lovinthehd]

Exactly, I don't think I have a use case for A/B, but I might have a use case for A+B and maybe, Center.

You want to run two left and two right speakers? Why? With a 2ch unit there's no center....

 

[movinginstereo]

You want to run two left and two right speakers? Why? With a 2ch unit there's no center....

I'm wondering the same thing. For music, it's not obvious to me whether adding the center and surround would be better than just the 2 floors and the sub. I'm not inclined to give up audio performance for the additional bells and whistles associated with theater.

 

[lovinthehd]

I'm wondering the same thing. For music, it's not obvious to me whether adding the center and surround would be better than just the 2 floors and the sub.

Depends on what you like. I like multich audio/music....but if I did go 2ch I would only use one pair of L/R speakers, not two.

 

[movinginstereo]

Depends on what you like. I like multich audio/music....but if I did go 2ch I would only use one pair of L/R speakers, not two.

OK, I get it. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[PENG]

I'm wondering the same thing. For music, it's not obvious to me whether adding the center and surround would be better than just the 2 floors and the sub. I'm not inclined to give up audio performance for the additional bells and whistles associated with theater.

I agree the best value would be an older AVR such as a RX-A1080, AVR-X3500H or even the AVR-X3400H. For 2 channel receiver, I am quite impressed with the R-N802. That thing should be sonically equivalent to a so called integrated amp A-S801, but have overall more useful features.

 

[Trell]

I agree the best value would be an older AVR such as a RX-A1080, AVR-X3500H or even the AVR-X3400H. For 2 channel receiver, I am quite impressed with the R-N802. That thing should be sonically equivalent to a so called integrated amp A-S801, but have overall more useful features.

View attachment 53146

Indeed, it even has subwoofer out, room EQ, tone controls and loudness.

 

[Eppie]

@movinginstereo Whether to go 2.1 or 5.1 depends on what you plan to listen to. While the two Elacs will sound good for music, consider whether you have any concert DVDs or plan to use streaming services. If you plan mostly to listen to CD and phono, 2.1 is fine. If you have DVDs and a TV cable box with digital out, then you will benefit from having a centre and surrounds. The centre in particular can help with making dialogue more clear with TV shows and movies and the surrounds provide movie effects. Most AVRs also have simulated surround modes, so even with 2-channel music you can use Dolby Pro Logic or Neural X, etc, to drive 4 speakers. Some will add music content to the centre channel as well, but that's personal preference (not a fan of that myself).

Note that you'll need to use the digital out on the DVD player to get surround (some also have 5 separate audio outs for discrete surround channels). If you use the stereo RCA out you can only get simulated surround. There are some great music DVDs that sound wonderful in surround, like Fleetwood Mac's The Dance or The Eagles Farewell Tour from Melbourne (lots of great Floyd discs). If you get into blue-rays, I recently heard some live recordings from Porcupine Tree that sound incredible. Personally, I think the effort for the surround option is worth it.

The old Optimus speakers are pretty large so whether you want them for surrounds is a matter of space. I would try both those and the Q Acoustic and see what you like better. For that matter, with a modern AVR you can use all 7 speakers. The Optimus for rear surrounds and the Q Acoustic for side surrounds or front height (depends on what surround modes the AVR supports). If you get an AVR with auto room correction, like Audessey or YPAO, make sure to run it each time when you change or move speakers.

 

[Trell]

@movinginstereo Whether to go 2.1 or 5.1 depends on what you plan to listen to. While the two Elacs will sound good for music, consider whether you have any concert DVDs or plan to use streaming services. If you plan mostly to listen to CD and phono, 2.1 is fine. If you have DVDs and a TV cable box with digital out, then you will benefit from having a centre and surrounds. The centre in particular can help with making dialogue more clear with TV shows and movies and the surrounds provide movie effects. Most AVRs also have simulated surround modes, so even with 2-channel music you can use Dolby Pro Logic or Neural X, etc, to drive 4 speakers. Some will add music content to the centre channel as well, but that's personal preference (not a fan of that myself).

Note that you'll need to use the digital out on the DVD player to get surround (some also have 5 separate audio outs for discrete surround channels). If you use the stereo RCA out you can only get simulated surround. There are some great music DVDs that sound wonderful in surround, like Fleetwood Mac's The Dance or The Eagles Farewell Tour from Melbourne (lots of great Floyd discs). If you get into blue-rays, I recently heard some live recordings from Porcupine Tree that sound incredible. Personally, I think the effort for the surround option is worth it.

The old Optimus speakers are pretty large so whether you want them for surrounds is a matter of space. I would try both those and the Q Acoustic and see what you like better. For that matter, with a modern AVR you can use all 7 speakers. The Optimus for rear surrounds and the Q Acoustic for side surrounds or front height (depends on what surround modes the AVR supports). If you get an AVR with auto room correction, like Audessey or YPAO, make sure to run it each time when you change or move speakers.

I rather start out with a great 2.0 or 2.1 than have to compromise buying 5.1/5.2 due to budget restrictions: A 2.0/2.1 can be extended to a great setup while a 5.1/5.2 might involve a replacement.

 

[Eppie]

I rather start out with a great 2.0 or 2.1 than have to compromise buying 5.1/5.2 due to budget restrictions: A 2.0/2.1 can be extended to a great setup while a 5.1/5.2 might involve a replacement.

I don't quite follow what you mean by extended in this instance. A 5.1 AVR with pre-outs can be upgraded with an external amp if it's underpowered, or it can used in a 3.1 setup. A 2.1 amp would have to be replaced if the op wanted to go 5.1 later.

 

[Trell]

I don't quite follow what you mean by extended in this instance. A 5.1 AVR with pre-outs can be upgraded with an external amp if it's underpowered, or it can used in a 3.1 setup. A 2.1 amp would have to be replaced if the op wanted to go 5.1 later.

I was referring to selection of speakers.

 

[Eppie]

I was referring to selection of speakers.

The Optimus speakers may not pair well with the Elacs but the Q Acoustic 3020 looks like it would make a nice surround.

 

[movinginstereo]

It sounds like it would be worth it to just spend the extra bit for at least 5.1, so I can use the 3 ELACs along with the Q Acoustics, unless I happen to find an unusually good deal on a high-end stereo receiver.

Here's what's been recommended so far in AVRs:

Denon AVR-S660H 5.2 $500 new (suggested by Crutchfield)

Yamaha RX-A1080 7.2 $900 refurb

Denon AVR-X3500H 7.2 $800 new

Denon AVR-X3400H 7.2 NA

Onkyo TX-NR5100 7.2 $600 new

 

[lovinthehd]

Might use the comparison tool here https://www.zkelectronics.com/

Please note that the ".2" in an avr designation just generally means it has two sub pre-outs, altho in some units each sub pre-out can be separately set for level and delay, which can be useful for subs that are not equidistant from your seat. The Denons with the two sub pre-outs that can be set separately are the X3xxx and above series, but not the S series at all (660). Not sure if the Onkyo and Yamaha pre-outs are such, tho.