Do I need an amplifier? What benefit would I notice?

[MattBDad]

How do I know if I would benefit from an amp? If I got an amp for LCR only that does 200 watts per channel (4 ohms) RMS, what difference should I notice? Louder? More sound depth? More audio differentiation? (I’ve heard “open up” but I’m not sure what that means) Then running surrounds (in ceiling and behind unfortunately) and atmos from the receiver… would this make sense?

I have a Yamaha tsr-7810 receiver. I’m not sure how to determine how many watts per channel but I assume it’s 90-110 watts per channel(?).

My current speakers are a cheap box set and have an efficiency of about 83 db. I would like my overall system to be a bit louder, clearer and “punchy” in the mid range. I plan to upgrade the Monoprice Monoliths THX-460T and THX-365C (all 4 ohm) for LCR where the efficiency is about 90 db.


My room (basement) is 28 ft x 16ft. Half is a wet bar and open area and half will makeup my HT area of 14ft wide x 16 ft deep. The room is 8ft ceiling and carpet throughout. Seating is 6 recliners about 10ft from screen in the middle of the HT area.

 

[3db]

How do I know if I would benefit from an amp? If I got an amp for LCR only that does 200 watts per channel (4 ohms) RMS, what difference should I notice? Louder? More sound depth? More audio differentiation? (I’ve heard “open up” but I’m not sure what that means) Then running surrounds (in ceiling and behind unfortunately) and atmos from the receiver… would this make sense?

I have a Yamaha tsr-7810 receiver. I’m not sure how to determine how many watts per channel but I assume it’s 90-110 watts per channel(?).

My current speakers are a cheap box set and have an efficiency of about 83 db. I would like my overall system to be a bit louder, clearer and “punchy” in the mid range. I plan to upgrade the Monoprice Monoliths THX-460T and THX-365C (all 4 ohm) for LCR where the efficiency is about 90 db.


My room (basement) is 28 ft x 16ft. Half is a wet bar and open area and half will makeup my HT area of 14ft wide x 16 ft deep. The room is 8ft ceiling and carpet throughout. Seating is 6 recliners about 10ft from screen in the middle of the HT area.

I would take a wait and see approach after getting the Monoliths. One upgrade at a time unless you have a screamin good deal on an amp.

 

[Verdinut]

How do I know if I would benefit from an amp? If I got an amp for LCR only that does 200 watts per channel (4 ohms) RMS, what difference should I notice? Louder? More sound depth? More audio differentiation? (I’ve heard “open up” but I’m not sure what that means) Then running surrounds (in ceiling and behind unfortunately) and atmos from the receiver… would this make sense?

I have a Yamaha tsr-7810 receiver. I’m not sure how to determine how many watts per channel but I assume it’s 90-110 watts per channel(?).

My current speakers are a cheap box set and have an efficiency of about 83 db. I would like my overall system to be a bit louder, clearer and “punchy” in the mid range. I plan to upgrade the Monoprice Monoliths THX-460T and THX-365C (all 4 ohm) for LCR where the efficiency is about 90 db.


My room (basement) is 28 ft x 16ft. Half is a wet bar and open area and half will makeup my HT area of 14ft wide x 16 ft deep. The room is 8ft ceiling and carpet throughout. Seating is 6 recliners about 10ft from screen in the middle of the HT area.

First, I suggest that you upgrade your speakers. This is the weakest element in a sound system. It's quite possible that your TSR-7810 would be entirely adequate to drive your new speakers. It all depends on the sensitivity of the new speakers, the type of music or program material you listen to, your listening distance from your speakers, and how loud you would like to listen to your equipment.

In any system, the greatest percentage of the total cost should be on speakers. With electronics, it gets to a point where additional spending means diminishing returns in improved sound quality.

 

[lovinthehd]

What are the current speakers? Generally I'd just get the speakers you mention rather than an amp first. The TSR-7810 is rated 95 wpc into 8 ohm (full band, 2ch driven .06%THD), so would be more into 4 ohm. The small difference to an amp doing 200wpc only into 4 ohm isn't worth it.

In 50 years I still don't know what is meant by "open up" after many amps and speakers....seems to relate to being able to turn the volume up a bit more or a bit better performance at higher volumes generally....but mostly I think its excitement about a new amp. A power amp on your avr for the most demanding channels might relieve the avr of some work and spread it around better.....but keep in mind it takes a doubling of power to gain merely 3dB spl....so if going external amp go bigger than what you mention.

 

[Pogre]

Yup. Speakers first. Those Mono speakers are a lot more sensitive and likely much better quality than what you have now. You might find you don't need any additional amplification at all.

 

[-Jim-]

I'm with the team on this. Changing your receiver or adding a separate amplifier for the LCR seems to make little sense to me.

You make no mention of a Sub Woofer (or 2). Are you heading to a Monolith Sub or so you have something else? Subs make a huge difference and ease the load off your mains when setup correctly.

Just my 2 bits...

 

[Pogre]

I'm with the team on this. Changing your receiver or adding a separate amplifier for the LCR seems to make little sense to me.

You make no mention of a Sub Woofer (or 2). Are you heading to a Monolith Sub or so you have something else? Subs make a huge difference and ease the load off your mains when setup correctly.

Just my 2 bits...

I agree 100%. Good subs are as important as good speakers, and the Monolith line has some excellent choices. I think a guy can build a legit high performance audiophile system in one shot and pick every component from Monoprice's Monolith line. They've been knocking it out of the park with the THX subs, and I've really been wanting to check out those THX-460T towers. I don't know what it is, but I just love the aesthetic with that big tweeter-ish looking midrange flanked by all those woofers. I like that they're front ported too. Those are some really well designed speakers and I'll bet they sound awesome.

Well that got off track, lol. Subwoofage. More impactful than amplification by a large margin.

 

[TLS Guy]

How do I know if I would benefit from an amp? If I got an amp for LCR only that does 200 watts per channel (4 ohms) RMS, what difference should I notice? Louder? More sound depth? More audio differentiation? (I’ve heard “open up” but I’m not sure what that means) Then running surrounds (in ceiling and behind unfortunately) and atmos from the receiver… would this make sense?

I have a Yamaha tsr-7810 receiver. I’m not sure how to determine how many watts per channel but I assume it’s 90-110 watts per channel(?).

My current speakers are a cheap box set and have an efficiency of about 83 db. I would like my overall system to be a bit louder, clearer and “punchy” in the mid range. I plan to upgrade the Monoprice Monoliths THX-460T and THX-365C (all 4 ohm) for LCR where the efficiency is about 90 db.


My room (basement) is 28 ft x 16ft. Half is a wet bar and open area and half will makeup my HT area of 14ft wide x 16 ft deep. The room is 8ft ceiling and carpet throughout. Seating is 6 recliners about 10ft from screen in the middle of the HT area.

Lousy cheap speakers, will still be lousy cheap speakers no matter what you drive them with. The only magic you will get from driving cheap box set speakers with that Monolith is seeing them turned into charcoal.

 

[MattBDad]

So going from 100 wpc to 200 wpc… no noticible difference? Sounds like maybe a 3 db increase in volume? I guess the use of an external amp is minimal and over-hyped?

Thank you so much everyone for your advice! Very much appreciated.

I have 2 subs…one small, one large… both relatively cheap but they are good enough for now. I plan to upgrade at least the smaller one. Probably Monolith or SVS. Assuming I use 2, should they match? Would 10 inch be big enough or should I look for 12 in for my size room?

 

[lovinthehd]

So going from 100 wpc to 200 wpc… no noticible difference? Sounds like maybe a 3 db increase in volume? I guess the use of an external amp is minimal and over-hyped?

Thank you so much everyone for your advice! Very much appreciated.

I have 2 subs…one small, one large… both relatively cheap but they are good enough for now. I plan to upgrade at least the smaller one. Probably Monolith or SVS. Assuming I use 2, should they match? Would 10 inch be big enough or should I look for 12 in for my size room?

You're equating 100 wpc at 8 ohm to 200 wpc at 4 ohm, that doesn't work as an equivalent.

 

[MattBDad]

I’ve also heard that you typically can’t trust AVR advertised watts per channel and that I should figure each speaker is only getting 70-80%…? Whereas with an external amp, I should get 200 watts, for example, into 4 ohms RMS.

Would it be wrong to say… my AVR or amp has a power supply capable of producing XX watts max and that power may be split evenly or unevenly to each speaker as needed? Therefore, if it’s running less speakers, each speaker has the potential to get more power?

 

[lovinthehd]

I’ve also heard that you typically can’t trust AVR advertised watts per channel and that I should figure each speaker is only getting 70-80%…? Whereas with an external amp, I should get 200 watts, for example, into 4 ohms RMS.

Would it be wrong to say… my AVR or amp has a power supply capable of producing XX watts max and that power may be split evenly or unevenly to each speaker as needed? Therefore, if it’s running less speakers, each speaker has the potential to get more power?

Hearing things said about audio performance can be weird for sure.

AVRs advertised power ratings are to be taken with a grain of salt....they generally are not ACD (all channels driven simultaneously to max) ratings. That's just not real world generally either. An avr's individual channel capability is a different and more important consideration IMO. Surrounds don't generally operate at the same levels as the mains for example, altho different speaker sensitivies can eat that up somewhat, but still the content tends to simply be not equal. There are exceptions for things like explosions....but does it particularly matter there?

Marantz advises their usual rating (2ch) is guaranteed to be 70% for 5ch driven IIRC, and think you'll find for their sister brand Denon this generally works out as well. You have to pay attention to the spec conditions to compare. Like impedance....a typical 100wpc avr will only provide an 8 ohm rating due regulatory reasons primarily.....but doesn't mean they don't work for 4 ohm, altho into 4 ohm the rating may only be a few watts more, even separate amps have trouble with the as yet unobtained ideal of doubling into 4 ohm (at the same spec for distortion) let alone another doubling into 2 ohm....I wouldn't expect most avrs to do well for 2 ohm loads in any case, if you have really low impedance loads I'd go for a pro amp over most consumer amps.

The speaker/channel will dictate how much power it needs at that moment based on your volume level and it varies quite a bit. Evenly is not a usual thing due various content/timing in each speaker/channel. Playing full blast in mono or multich stereo can be more demanding, tho. An avr does generally have a single power supply for all channels, and many amps do as well, altho some of the better multich amps do come with more than one power supply. Generally beyond consumer needs generally, tho.

 

[Pogre]

I have 2 subs…one small, one large… both relatively cheap but they are good enough for now.

Your amplification is likely good enough for now, but you're considering upgrading there. A lot of folks underestimate subwoofers tho and put them in the "good enough for now" category not realizing the impact clean bass can have. It was a real eye opener for me. What do you have right now and how big is the room? Not generally a good idea to mix subs with different capabilities, but can work depending on what you have. Just seems a shame to be getting such good speakers if they're backed up with mediocre subs.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I would also advise against in ceiling surrounds and Atmos.

 

[3db]

I’ve also heard that you typically can’t trust AVR advertised watts per channel and that I should figure each speaker is only getting 70-80%…? Whereas with an external amp, I should get 200 watts, for example, into 4 ohms RMS.

Would it be wrong to say… my AVR or amp has a power supply capable of producing XX watts max and that power may be split evenly or unevenly to each speaker as needed? Therefore, if it’s running less speakers, each speaker has the potential to get more power?

You are correct that external amps will deliver their rated power across all channels BUT like lovinthehd has mentioned, its not real world conditions. The majority of the power is used by the main left and right speakers, center channel, and then surrrounds/atmos in that order. All the really heavy lifting is done by the subwoofers in terms of power used and this off loads a big burden from the AVR. The AVR does not require to drive all channels full bandwidth in real world conditions.

Another reason why AVRs dont fare well with ACD tests is due to their protection circuitry which purposely limits their output. AVR manufacturers do this for several reasons but the main reason is litagation. Yamaha is the most conservative of the brands and therefore has the worst ACD test results. But Yamaha bests them in their 2 channel driven driven into 8 and 4 ohms full bandwidth.

Like I mentioned earlier, try the new speakers first, then upgrade your subs, and if it still lacks punch, then get an external amp.