A Question Regarding Something I Was Once Told About Setting Trim Levels for Atmos Speakers...

[Kaskade89052]

Roger that!
I think what was said could be true for any surround speaker. Lol.

Every room and combo will have different sets of tweaks that will make you happy.

Thanks.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Ummmmm....okay.....

But that's why I'm asking if they SHOULD be set higher than the others....

And the answer is, if you can't hear them at the current level, then, yes, increase their levels so that you can hear them.

Don't be AFRAID to increase their levels by 1dB to 6dB. It just depends on the room and setup.

 

[Kaskade89052]

And the answer is, if you can't hear them at the current level, then, yes, increase their levels so that you can hear them.

Don't be AFRAID to increase their levels by 1dB to 6dB. It just depends on the room and setup.

Thanks; I don't even have these modules yet, but I was just trying to get some sense of whether what I was once told was correct or not before I get them.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have not purchased any Atmos speakers yet (please see where I indicate "down the road" in my original post) so there's no way to even answer your first question; of course, they will most likely not be a match to my left/right speakers because those are Polk RTi towers and we'd most likely be picking up Atmos modules from a different brand.

As for the mirroring aspect of your post, I was merely saying that I had been told, some time ago, that in general (regardless of particular systems, setups or speakers) Atmos modules should be a couple of dBs hotter than others; of course it would be impossible to technically assume what's right for one system and room would be right for another.

At the end of the day, I don't have speakers for this yet, so this is all speculation and discussion; I suppose I'll wait till we actually set up some Atmos add-ons (with a new AVR) to revisit the topic.

I'd say this thing about Atmos levels (which by the way I hadn't particularly read before) probably simply varies with not only user but also material...some Atmos mixes (or upmixes with Dolby Surround) may be a bit light naturally, sometimes people just want more action from all those speakers they bought

 

[Kaskade89052]

I'd say this thing about Atmos levels (which by the way I hadn't particularly read before) probably simply varies with not only user but also material...some Atmos mixes (or upmixes with Dolby Surround) may be a bit light naturally, sometimes people just want more action from all those speakers they bought

Indeed, you're right. Just like any other soundtrack that may have, say, non-aggressive surround channels in the mix to begin with, the Atmos channels could be quiet either by design or by engineer/mastering error.

But here's the thing, in a nutshell: If I am running in-ceiling speakers for surrounds right now, placed over our listening positions, would Atmos even make much of a difference? As it stands, when we watch Blu-rays and Ultra HD Blu-rays that contain Atmos mixes, these are "dumbed down" on our system to their core Dolby TrueHD signals (in our case, in a 5.1 arrangement) and we get plenty of "overhead" activity from those ceiling speakers...so would Atmos modules even make sense here?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks; I don't even have these modules yet, but I was just trying to get some sense of whether what I was once told was correct or not before I get them.

I would say it is NOT correct in the sense of technical accuracy. But it goes directly to WHY they’re not loud enough in the first place. DAE speakers can be very fussy with setup so if they’re not angled to hit the LP then higher trims could cause other issues. Like being able to hear the modules directly.

 

[lovinthehd]

Indeed, you're right. Just like any other soundtrack that may have, say, non-aggressive surround channels in the mix to begin with, the Atmos channels could be quiet either by design or by engineer/mastering error.

But here's the thing, in a nutshell: If I am running in-ceiling speakers for surrounds right now, placed over our listening positions, would Atmos even make much of a difference? As it stands, when we watch Blu-rays and Ultra HD Blu-rays that contain Atmos mixes, these are "dumbed down" on our system to their core Dolby TrueHD signals (in our case, in a 5.1 arrangement) and we get plenty of "overhead" activity from those ceiling speakers...so would Atmos modules even make sense here?

If you have your surrounds in the ceiling, how would you differentiate the Atmos layer? Generally you wouldn't combine surrounds in the ceiling with Atmos.

 

[Kaskade89052]

I would say it is NOT correct in the sense of technical accuracy. But it goes directly to WHY they’re not loud enough in the first place. DAE speakers can be very fussy with setup so if they’re not angled to hit the LP then higher trims could cause other issues. Like being able to hear the modules directly.

Thanks, as always, Will; boy, it sounds like this Atmos stuff is maybe more effort than it's worth. I may just wait to see what the next room in whatever home we end up in looks like (we don't want to stay where we are forever).

 

[Kaskade89052]

If you have your surrounds in the ceiling, how would you differentiate the Atmos layer?

This is all new to me, so that's why I have been asking -- indeed, it DID get me thinking about this, though.

What about adding the two modules, though? Can I try that for some added effects?

Generally you wouldn't combine surrounds in the ceiling with Atmos.

Well, if that's it in a nutshell, there's no point in even considering them for this room (though I do still wonder about the modules we can add atop our front towers).

As I mentioned, when we do watch films with surround tracks (most of the discs we own), let alone ones with Atmos tracks (which default to their Dolby TrueHD cores), there is PLENTY of overhead information hitting those in-ceiling channels above us....

 

[lovinthehd]

This is all new to me, so that's why I have been asking -- indeed, it DID get me thinking about this, though.

What about adding the two modules, though? Can I try that for some added effects?



Well, if that's it in a nutshell, there's no point in even considering them for this room (though I do still wonder about the modules we can add atop our front towers).

As I mentioned, when we do watch films with surround tracks (most of the discs we own), let alone ones with Atmos tracks (which default to their Dolby TrueHD cores), there is PLENTY of overhead information hitting those in-ceiling channels above us....

Well, except it's not particularly "overhead" info as Atmos/DTS:X can exploit. With surrounds in the ceiling I wouldn't bother with the bouncy house speakers either....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thanks, as always, Will; boy, it sounds like this Atmos stuff is maybe more effort than it's worth. I may just wait to see what the next room in whatever home we end up in looks like (we don't want to stay where we are forever).

Well imo it is very much worth it. The PLUS for your room already is that while not accurate, you are getting sounds from overhead. They should mostly be coming from the sides but that’s here nor there.
The MINUS for room is the same thing lol. You’re surrounds being IC already basically undo how Atmos works. As an experiment, you could try some surrounds at regular locations and use the IC surrounds as .2

 

[Kaskade89052]

Well, except it's not particularly "overhead" info as Atmos/DTS:X can exploit.

I was afraid of that; you're saying, then, that the surround cues we experience in the standard surround channels are totally different from what would be extracted from an Atmos or DTS:X mix?

With surrounds in the ceiling I wouldn't bother with the bouncy house speakers either....

Really?

But if we got a new AVR, would it hurt to add them to the tops of our front towers just to try?

 

[Kaskade89052]

Well imo it is very much worth it. The PLUS for your room already is that while not accurate, you are getting sounds from overhead. They should mostly be coming from the sides but that’s here nor there.

Right; I have always considered us "lucky" to have the in-ceiling surrounds for this reason. As for their positioning, they are above us, obviously, but they ARE off to the sides of the primary spot, more or less.

The MINUS for room is the same thing lol. You’re surrounds being IC already basically undo how Atmos works. As an experiment, you could try some surrounds at regular locations and use the IC surrounds as .2

I see; in general, then, would you say it would make more sense for us to, perhaps, try adding an additional pair of surrounds for a 7.1 arrangement instead of doing Atmos?

 

[lovinthehd]

I was afraid of that; you're saying, then, that the surround cues we experience in the standard surround channels are totally different from what would be extracted from an Atmos or DTS:X mix?



Really?

But if we got a new AVR, would it hurt to add them to the tops of our front towers just to try?

Yes, they're different/additional cues than surrounds provide. Just because I wouldn't bother with them doesn't mean you shouldn't I'd just have no use otherwise for speakers of such construction myself...and would simply prefer it be done right rather than a compromise like that (plus it can depend on your room/angles available).

 

[Kaskade89052]

Yes, they're different/additional cues than surrounds provide. Just because I wouldn't bother with them doesn't mean you shouldn't I'd just have no use otherwise for speakers of such construction myself...and would simply prefer it be done right rather than a compromise like that (plus it can depend on your room/angles available).

But I mean, just adding two modules atop my left/right mains to TRY wouldn't really be much effort compared to having speakers wired up in the ceiling, right?

 

[lovinthehd]

But I mean, just adding two modules atop my left/right mains to TRY wouldn't really be much effort compared to having speakers wired up in the ceiling, right?

Well, definitely easier to do. Ceiling installation can be a royal pain

 

[Kaskade89052]

Well, definitely easier to do. Ceiling installation can be a royal pain

Indeed; and if we didn't detect any improvement/benefit, I could always return the modules (if we were still in the return window for them), no?

 

[Kaskade89052]

Here's something else I wanted to ask you, Lovin, because we were discussing this in the Receivers thread I started....

Do the new receivers out today decode, with no issue, the older lossy codecs like Dolby Digital and DTS? Do they just straight decode them without needing a "listening mode preset" assigned to them?

 

[lovinthehd]

Indeed; and if we didn't detect any improvement/benefit, I could always return the modules (if we were still in the return window for them), no?

If purchased from someone who allowed an in-home trial or a return, sure.

Here's something else I wanted to ask you, Lovin, because we were discussing this in the Receivers thread I started....

Do the new receivers out today decode, with no issue, the older lossy codecs like Dolby Digital and DTS? Do they just straight decode them without needing a "listening mode preset" assigned to them?

Yes, avrs are backwards compatible on the decoding of codecs, so they handle all the older codecs as well as whatever newest/latest they may have. Just don't add a sound mode to the basic decode and you're good if all you want is basic DD and DTS. If you do listen to something in DTS on a particular input and add a sound mode like Neo:X (or whatever), it will remember next time on that input to use that codec plus that sound mode, tho....until you change it again.

 

[Kaskade89052]

If purchased from someone who allowed an in-home trial or a return, sure.

Well, I'd be ordering from a reputable outlet (probably via Crutchfield or something along those lines) so...

Yes, avrs are backwards compatible on the decoding of codecs, so they handle all the older codecs as well as whatever newest/latest they may have.

I assumed this, as it's always the way it worked in the past, but with these new models you just don't know; seemed like I'd have to attempt a magic act of some kind in order to play back plain vanilla Dolby Digital...

Which brings me to:

Just don't add a sound mode to the basic decode and you're good if all you want is basic DD and DTS. If you do listen to something in DTS on a particular input and add a sound mode like Neo:X (or whatever), it will remember next time on that input to use that codec plus that sound mode, tho....until you change it again.

So these new AVRs WILL remember the last sound mode chosen for a particular SIGNAL?

In other words, if I, say, watch a DVD with a two-channel soundtrack, and choose an upmixer mode to spread it correctly through my 5.1 channel arrangement, then watch a disc right after that with, say, a Dolby Atmos track, the AVR WILL remember to go into that "upmixed" mode the next time I watch a DVD with a two-channel track?