Seeking subwoofer suggestions to pair with RF7's and RC64iii for a music-centric owner

[William Lemmerhirt]

A pair of PC 2000 Pros is a great idea also. Though by that time you're looking at spending about the same amount as you would on a pair of 15" Hsu's, which is why some of us went there.

The PC 2000 is a very capable sub though, and does have a smaller footprint and different form if that's a factor.

I agree. HSU is the overall value here. Unless app control and the bill of rights are a big deal, then that can make sense. I usually recommend svs if someone is already looking there, while also reminding them that Rythmik, monolith, PSA, and the other usual suspects should be looked at too.

 

[Pogre]

I agree. HSU is the overall value here. Unless app control and the bill of rights are a big deal, then that can make sense. I usually recommend svs if someone is already looking there, while also reminding them that Rythmik, monolith, PSA, and the other usual suspects should be looked at too.

Yeah, you and I are usually on the same page. I totally agree a pair of PC 2000 pros would be a pretty good option too, but give Hsu the edge for value in the same price range.

 

[robwas]

I always find it interesting when someone brings up the D-9. I have a pair in my studio, also from my teen years that need new surrounds. Had a lot of fun with those babies!

The thing here, that you probably already know. When dropping a random driver into a cabinet, there’s no guarantee they it will work very well. Obviously you’ll get bass, but in cases like this, you get whatcha get. Those cabs are made to support down to about 30hz, so true deep bass won’t likely happen. Still they’ve been working for all this time so there is that too, however they can’t do what a well designed modern subwoofer can.
If your keeping to svs, I would tray a pair of PC2000 pros. At the end of the day, you’re going to have a largish enclosure, so why not make it more interesting than a rectangular box. If that form doesn’t work, the PB versions will perform identically. I think it’s possible that the PB1000’s could work, but once you find real deep linear bass, you just want more!

Another thing. I believe that the current locations of the CV’s is close enough to each other that the multiple sub benefit will be relegated to a DB bump by being co-loaded to the room, basically acting as one bigger subwoofer, not two that are placed for better room response. Marks British eloquence can possibly elaborate better lol.
Maybe it’s just the picture too.

Actually when I replaced the drivers I took into account the speaker cabinet volume and vent size/length to match it. It was a long time ago, a friend of mine owned a car audio shop that built 1000's of enclosures and he figured it out using some formulas in a book called the loudspeaker design cookbook and ordered them for me. The bass is lower than it was with the vega drivers, I doubt it hits 20 khz however but with music it seems to add a lot to what the RF-7's produce. Obviously the genre matters, with some music I don't see them even moving. I'm not stuck on any brand and I'm open to looking at everything. One consideration is weight, the more I think about a really huge heavy single unit the less appealing it is. That was what appealed to me about the JTR 18", it's something like 75 lbs and built out of plywood not MDF or HDF. Not sure it's really ideal though and my be way beyond overkill.

 

[robwas]

20'x30' I would lean towards the SVS PB2000Pro. The PB1000 might be enough but the 2000 will give some extra headroom. Depends on your budget and expectations. Personally I like the phone app. It's very easy to adjust the level by a dB or two from the comfort of your chair. I don't adjust it much afterwards but it makes setup a little easier. SVS also sells a good wireless transmitter if you can't get audio cables to one of the subs.

I should mention that these are all powered subs. I forgot to ask whether you were interested in passive subs using your current amps? What were you driving the D9s with and were you using the bass management in the Marantz to set the crossover? If you have decent amplification, passive may be a more reliable option as subwoofer plate amps are notoriously difficult to service. Reliability from the brands mentioned is pretty good though.

I didn't think passive subs were made anymore to be honest. At one point I considering DIY, I have a woodshop and have built my own furniture even, also a few speakers back in the day for car application but honestly I don't have the ambition to do so mostly because of finishing the end product. I also don't think there's a great savings. Dayton Audio had an ultimax kit i even looked at along with a cabinet I could assemble myself but again with winter here and my shop in an unheated garage I think just purchasing a product would be better. If good passive subs are produced please share some links, I just haven't come across them. I even considered looking for a used sub with a broken amp but finding that in a pair would be rare. I do have enough amplification already, I also have another large power amp in my basement that could be used which is 375RMS/channel (not sure if this is enough for a sub though since bass eats up power)

 

[robwas]

Don't over spend. The power required to reproduce the last two octaves is massively overestimated on forums like these. This is a pity, because the power required above the last two octaves is massively underestimated.

The diameter of a bass driver has very little to do with performance in the home. I would make an exception for sealed, as the driver is the only coupler to the air. However ported enclosures, pipes, and horns are acoustic transformers, and the bulk of the radiation does not come from the driver. So, what matters far more then driver size are other parameters of the driver, and total system design.

In my theater I use no sub drivers at all. The bass lines each have two 10" SEAS Excel drivers, yet when the teenagers get up there it will shake the furniture throughout the house.

In our great room, I have one 10" driver in a TL that fills a whole very large space, with ease.

There is more nonsense talked about subs than anything else. It is akin to sports car enthusiasts, comparing their performance with the roar of their exhausts.

Further putting disproportionate money into subs, encourages the user to turn them up too loud, and produce a very unbalanced sound, which is not at all realistic.

Two of the subs I mentioned will probably get more even sound than one. However there is nothing to stop you starting with one and adding another.

I can tell you that two of those 12" subs is already overkill.

This may be right but my Klipsch have four 10" drivers and it surprised me the whole system sounded better with the bass from my old speakers being used. I do realize it's a whole different design though with subs but since trying something and not be happy would be such a hassle I don't mind spending more even if it's overkill to be honest. I've always enjoyed high power systems even if they're only playing at 1/10 of the power, as I've always said there's a volume control so I don't think an amp or system can ever be too big. At normal listening volumes my system is barely working, if i take off the grilles the speakers are moving very little but doesn't that mean better sound and less distortion too? Maybe I'll see if our local best buy has some subs setup just to see what kind of output different sizes produce. I have very little experience with subs, friends of mine have systems with small speakers though and 10 or 12" subs which when turned up always sounded flubby and awful to me. I don't think they're high end though, probably some kind of home theater in a box system.

 

[lovinthehd]

One passive sub that comes to mind, and that a few around here have, is the RBH SV-1212NR . I have built my last few subs (and do prefer baltic birch if'n I can get it, right now its very expensive) but have been procrastinating on using some more drivers for the reasons you state....it's cold out there and finishing could be a pain. Otherwise for duals and your time being "free" you can do okay, as you can save somewhat on the amp.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Actually when I replaced the drivers I took into account the speaker cabinet volume and vent size/length to match it. It was a long time ago, a friend of mine owned a car audio shop that built 1000's of enclosures and he figured it out using some formulas in a book called the loudspeaker design cookbook and ordered them for me. The bass is lower than it was with the vega drivers, I doubt it hits 20 khz however but with music it seems to add a lot to what the RF-7's produce. Obviously the genre matters, with some music I don't see them even moving. I'm not stuck on any brand and I'm open to looking at everything. One consideration is weight, the more I think about a really huge heavy single unit the less appealing it is. That was what appealed to me about the JTR 18", it's something like 75 lbs and built out of plywood not MDF or HDF. Not sure it's really ideal though and my be way beyond overkill.

That’s good to know actually. Most of the time people don’t take any time to find an appropriate replacement. Just find a driver that fits and drop it in lol. Seems like you came up with a real solution. Nice work.
It’s funny. I also have a friend who owns a couple car audio shops and remember the “cookbook” fondly.

 

[robwas]

That’s good to know actually. Most of the time people don’t take any time to find an appropriate replacement. Just find a driver that fits and drop it in lol. Seems like you came up with a real solution. Nice work.
It’s funny. I also have a friend who owns a couple car audio shops and remember the “cookbook” fondly.

I just looked on my shelf to see if I still had it. I do, also a bunch of notes inside where I calculated what I'd need to buy to build some crossovers. This goes way back, I remember doing car audio before car stereos actually existed and adapting home stuff to work with in a car. As much as you can put stuff on paper though I've always been amazed that our ears can still differentiate things to another level. Ultimately it always came down to using your ears but of course the math got you in the ballpark. I believe my old vegas are aligned to a Qtc of around .8 or so, they're definitely not boomy.

 

[Eppie]

Not a whole lot of passive options in the consumer space. This Klpisch KW-120-THX has decent specs but when I looked in the pro space, like Electrovoice, a lot of the subs don't even go below 30 Hz.

 

[Pogre]

One passive sub that comes to mind, and that a few around here have, is the RBH SV-1212NR . I have built my last few subs (and do prefer baltic birch if'n I can get it, right now its very expensive) but have been procrastinating on using some more drivers for the reasons you state....it's cold out there and finishing could be a pain. Otherwise for duals and your time being "free" you can do okay, as you can save somewhat on the amp.

I'm one of those guys! Though I found mine on craigslist at one hell of a discount. I wouldn't recommend paying full retail for 1 of them just because it's a lot of money and you can get more with smaller (still large) multiple subwoofers. Very legit, very powerful subwoofer though for sure.

I paid $900 for mine and it came with an amp. I just couldn't pass that up!

 

[Danzilla31]

One passive sub that comes to mind, and that a few around here have, is the RBH SV-1212NR . I have built my last few subs (and do prefer baltic birch if'n I can get it, right now its very expensive) but have been procrastinating on using some more drivers for the reasons you state....it's cold out there and finishing could be a pain. Otherwise for duals and your time being "free" you can do okay, as you can save somewhat on the amp.

If you don't need the flagship passive they also have a passive version the RBH SV-1212 still a monster sub but less expensive

 

[Danzilla31]

Not a whole lot of passive options in the consumer space. This Klpisch KW-120-THX has decent specs but when I looked in the pro space, like Electrovoice, a lot of the subs don't even go below 30 Hz.

If your going passive RBH has some of the best.