Subwoofer on a budget.

[qba]

You might be perfectly happy with the SB1000 Pro. It's a pretty solid performer and you can do worse for sure. Let us know your impressions when you get it hooked up, and if you have any questions about setting up just ping us here. We have lots of experience with sub setup.

Thanks, Proge I'll let you guys know once it comes in, I'm having some issues login into the local retailer site, once I figure this out with them tomorrow I'll be placing the order.

 

[Pogre]

Thanks, Proge I'll let you guys know once it comes in, I'm having some issues login into the local retailer site, once I figure this out with them tomorrow I'll be placing the order.

Awesome. I think you'll really like it. I had a pair of those and they were the first true, clean competent subs I'd heard with my sysem that really got me to think "ohhh, this is what clean, competent bass sounds like!". I have almost an extreme room size tho and I really needed more. So I sold those and got a pair of 15" ported HSU's and that was the second time I went "ohhh... so this is what clean, competent deep bass with appropriate sized subs for the room sounds like!".

Then I added a third huge ported subwoofer and put it right behind the couch, lol.

I know you've made your pick so I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. I'm just buzzed up on coffee right now, getting gabby and feel like sharing my thoughts to further explain why I'm such a proponent for ported subs.

I had always thought sealed subs were better for music because friends told me and I watched a bunch of videos and read articles where the reviewers all said it too. I was absolutely "one of those guys". I gave them a hard time at first, but I eventually let these guys talk me into giving ported a shot and my experience after trying sealed was they knocked my socks off. That's partly because the sealed ones were undersized for my room, but for music and critical listening I think my ported subs sound just as clean, tight and punchy as the SBs, but with deeper extension. I was just waiting to hear some boominess or "woofy" behavior too and it never happened. Just nice, tight and clean. I've been sold ever since.

 

[qba]

Awesome. I think you'll really like it. I had a pair of those and they were the first true, clean competent subs I'd heard with my sysem that really got me to think "ohhh, this is what clean, competent bass sounds like!". I have almost an extreme room size tho and I really needed more. So I sold those and got a pair of 15" ported HSU's and that was the second time I went "ohhh... so this is what clean, competent deep bass with appropriate sized subs for the room sounds like!".

Then I added a third huge ported subwoofer and put it right behind the couch, lol.

I know you've made your pick so I'm not trying to change your mind or anything. I'm just buzzed up on coffee right now, getting gabby and feel like sharing my thoughts to further explain why I'm such a proponent for ported subs.

I had always thought sealed subs were better for music because friends told me and I watched a bunch of videos and read articles where the reviewers all said it too. I was absolutely "one of those guys". I gave them a hard time at first, but I eventually let these guys talk me into giving ported a shot and my experience after trying sealed was they knocked my socks off. That's partly because the sealed ones were undersized for my room, but for music and critical listening I think my ported subs sound just as clean, tight and punchy as the SBs, but with deeper extension. I was just waiting to hear some boominess or "woofy" behavior too and it never happened. Just nice, tight and clean. I've been sold ever since.

Thanks Pogre, I'm in the same boat as you were, from many sources I have heard that sealed subs are able to respond quicker to music changes and therefore they blend more with the sound, I may end up like you saying I need some more deep bass so I'm sending this back and waiting for the RLS to be in stock. Because if this happens to me and is going to be a 15" width subwoofer under my desk, I'm buying both the RLS Speedwoofer 10s and the Starke SW12, they will cost me around $700 Canadians all in for each, so paying for the shipping back of whoever loses the head to head test, it would be less than paying the $937 I'm paying now for the SB-1000. I truly hope I don't have to continue with this journey and I just fall in love with what SB-1000 is bringing to the table, I'm super busy with my job and my family, so I don't have the luxury for all this research lol.

Btw when it comes to size my office room is only 11' by 10'

Two more questions if you can:
1. Just curious between the RLS Speedwoofer 10s and the Starke SW12, which one is the clear winner if there is one?

2. Do you think that I should try to move around the room to see where the sounbwoofer sounds better, just in case that under the table is way worst than in some other spots? if is way worst I'm moving it but if it is just a little bit worst is staying under the table. In the video, below a guy suggested putting the sub on the chair we are listening from and then walking around the room to see where it sounds the best. but in my case, my speakers are very close to each other, so if I move around the room I will be off to the side from the wall speakers and that shouldn't sound as good unless I'm misunderstanding the test.

The explanation about moving around the room starts at minute 1:15

 

[Pogre]

Btw when it comes to size my office room is only 11' by 10'

That's a pretty small room so you wouldn't need the same subwoofage I do. My room is big and open to other areas, like 18' × 30' with vaulted ceilings and open to a hallway. The SBs were just way too undersized and that was my main issue with those.

1. Just curious between the RLS Speedwoofer 10s and the Starke SW12, which one is the clear winner if there is one?

They seem to be pretty close.

SW12

RSL Speedwoofer

Pretty close, with RSL edging it out in deepest bass but Starke wins from 31.5 Hz and up. Between the 3 (including SVS) Starke uses a beefier amp so that likely helps with output, tho amp size doesn't tell the whole story. What surprises me is the SW12 appears to have more overall raw output than the SB1000 Pro based on CEA burst tests.

I do believe all of those were tested at 2 m so should be apples to apples. To recap it looks like the SW12 has more output than the SB1000, is pretty comparable to the Speedwoofer, and even beats it above 31.5 Hz. Huh. That surprises me. Plus it shows how little homework I've done on Starke Sound, lol.

 

[Pogre]

2. Do you think that I should try to move around the room to see where the sounbwoofer sounds better, just in case that under the table is way worst than in some other spots? if is way worst I'm moving it but if it is just a little bit worst is staying under the table. In the video, below a guy suggested putting the sub on the chair we are listening from and then walking around the room to see where it sounds the best. but in my case, my speakers are very close to each other, so if I move around the room I will be off to the side from the wall speakers and that shouldn't sound as good unless I'm misunderstanding the test.

Room acoustics do dictate low frequency response and how well a sub will perform so placement really does matter. Being right on top of it might negate some of that, but it's possible it could sound better in a corner or somewhere else in the room. The test you're talking about is known as the "sub crawl" and it is indeed a pretty tried and true method. Physics is on your side here and it is a neat, quick n dirty way to find good placement.

Some more from AH:

How to Place a Subwoofer For Best Bass Performance

Subwoofer Placement: An easy guide for placement of your home theater subwoofer. Crawl for bass to find the optimal location and achieve the best sound.

www.audioholics.com

Now picture me hoisting my 80+ lb subwoofer into my chair and crawling around on the floor while listening to Korn... lol

 

[qba]

Room acoustics do dictate low frequency response and how well a sub will perform so placement really does matter. Being right on top of it might negate some of that, but it's possible it could sound better in a corner or somewhere else in the room. The test you're talking about is known as the "sub crawl" and it is indeed a pretty tried and true method. Physics is on your side here and it is a neat, quick n dirty way to find good placement.

Some more from AH:

How to Place a Subwoofer For Best Bass Performance

Subwoofer Placement: An easy guide for placement of your home theater subwoofer. Crawl for bass to find the optimal location and achieve the best sound.

www.audioholics.com

Now picture me hoisting my 80+ lb subwoofer into my chair and crawling around on the floor while listening to Korn... lol

Thanks a lot, Pogre! I just placed the order from a different local dealer so it should be here tomorrow or Tuesday

 

[NINaudio]

That's a pretty small room so you wouldn't need the same subwoofage I do. My room is big and open to other areas, like 18' × 30' with vaulted ceilings and open to a hallway. The SBs were just way too undersized and that was my main issue with those.

They seem to be pretty close.

SW12

View attachment 52239

RSL Speedwoofer

View attachment 52238

Pretty close, with RSL edging it out in deepest bass but Starke wins from 31.5 Hz and up. Between the 3 (including SVS) Starke uses a beefier amp so that likely helps with output, tho amp size doesn't tell the whole story. What surprises me is the SW12 appears to have more overall raw output than the SB1000 Pro based on CEA burst tests.

View attachment 52240

I do believe all of those were tested at 2 m so should be apples to apples. To recap it looks like the SW12 has more output than the SB1000, is pretty comparable to the Speedwoofer, and even beats it above 31.5 Hz. Huh. That surprises me. Plus it shows how little homework I've done on Starke Sound, lol.

Glad to see you reached the same conclusions I did. ;-)

 

[qba]

if you have any questions about setting up just ping us here. We have lots of experience with sub setup.

This guy seems to know what he is talking about, I think he is suggesting to connect the sub to the amp in an unconventional way to achieve the best blending, so it sounds like there is no sub but just two front speakers with amazing bass. The issue is that I don't know how to do what he is suggesting lol

He starts talking about it in minute 1:12 into the video

I was planning to connect a single coax cable from the "subwoofer out" in the receiver to the output on the back of the sub that is labeled "LFE"

Attached are images from google of how the back of my current R-S300 looks, which is very similar to the back of the soon to arrive A-S501 and how the back of the SVS SB-1000 looks.

Can any of you please help me understand how to connect it in the way the guy is suggesting?

Thanks!

 

[lovinthehd]

This guy seems to know what he is talking about, I think he is suggesting to connect the sub to the amp in an unconventional way to achieve the best blending, so it sounds like there is no sub but just two front speakers with amazing bass, but I don't know how to do what he is suggesting.

He starts talking about it in minute 1:12 into the video

I was planning to connect a single coax cable from the "subwoofer out" in the receiver to the output on the back of the sub that is labeled "LFE"

Attached are images from google of how the back of my current R-S300 looks, which is very similar to the back of the soon to arrive A-S501 and how the back of the SVS SB-1000 looks.

Can any of you please help me understand how to connect it in the way the guy is suggesting?

Thanks!

Oh please don't post up grandpa Paul's nonsense. I wouldn't bother with his videos or products (I tried but the guy just was droning on and I just couldn't wait til he made his point).

Using a single coax cable from the sub out is generally a good way to connect, but your receivers don't have bass management so the LFE input generally isn't particularly the one you want, just the regular line level input would be better; in some subs the LFE input bypasses the sub's low pass filter, which you will want to use to adjust the balance of sub to speaker. Some subs it doesn't bypass the low pass filter in the sub's amp, too. Your sub manual should specify.

Alternately, you could use high level connections (i.e. speaker level) from your receivers. Probably simpler to use the rca cable....

 

[NINaudio]

I was planning to connect a single coax cable from the "subwoofer out" in the receiver to the output on the back of the sub that is labeled "LFE"

Do this and use the sub's built in functions to set your low pass filter to in between 60 and 80 Hz.

 

[qba]

Oh please don't post up grandpa Paul's nonsense. I wouldn't bother with his videos or products (I tried but the guy just was droning on and I just couldn't wait til he made his point).

Using a single coax cable from the sub out is generally a good way to connect, but your receivers don't have bass management so the LFE input generally isn't particularly the one you want, just the regular line level input would be better; in some subs the LFE input bypasses the sub's low pass filter, which you will want to use to adjust the balance of sub to speaker. Some subs it doesn't bypass the low pass filter in the sub's amp, too. Your sub manual should specify.

Alternately, you could use high level connections (i.e. speaker level) from your receivers. Probably simpler to use the rca cable....

Thanks lovinthehd!, Bottom line, ignore that guy, use a single coax cable like I was planning from the subwoofer output in the receiver, but in the subwoofer don't connect it to the "LFE" because probably will bypass the settings from the buttons in the back of the subwoofer and the subwoofer app. So to be saved connect it to the white input right beside it without the "LFE" label?

 

[qba]

Do this and use the sub's built in functions to set your low pass filter to in between 60 and 80 Hz.

Thanks NINaudio, not sure that my receiver has those features, but I think my subwoofer will have them.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks lovinthehd!, Bottom line, ignore that guy, use a single coax cable like I was planning from the subwoofer output in the receiver, but in the subwoofer don't connect it to the "LFE" because probably will bypass the settings from the buttons in the back of the subwoofer and the app. So to be saved connect it to the white input right beside it without the "LFE" label?

Yep.

Altho you can check the sub's manual, maybe LFE input doesn't bypass the LPF as NIN implies....or the app handles it in another way....I didn't check.

 

[qba]

Yep.

Altho you can check the sub's manual, maybe LFE input doesn't bypass the LPF as NIN implies....or the app handles it in another way....I didn't check.

Below is the info about the LFE section of the subwoofer straight from the manual, not sure if it covers what you were referring to.

"Line Level Connection – Single LFE Channel
The most common way to connect your SB-1000 Pro is with a single RCA interconnect cable going from the LFE or SUB1 Output on your AV receiver or preamplifier to the LFE Input on your SB-1000 Pro. This allows your processor to perform the upstream bass management and send the subwoofer a pre-filtered mono signal."

Here is the link to the manual, seems to be only a few pages long but I'm not sure I found that info either. lol

https://www.easylounge.com/pdf/Produits/f14aa4e9-046d-497d-98a0-b8625ce5f341/sb-1000pro_manual_web_02262021.pdf

 

[NINaudio]

I think if you change the adjustments you can take it out of LFE mode while still using that input. For the Low pass button the manual says:

"Press this button to adjust the Low Pass Filter frequency to ensure a smooth sonic transition and flat frequency response between the speakers and subwoofer. The right most LED on the status bar indicates the subwoofer is in LFE mode."

 

[Pogre]

This guy seems to know what he is talking about, I think he is suggesting to connect the sub to the amp in an unconventional way to achieve the best blending, so it sounds like there is no sub but just two front speakers with amazing bass. The issue is that I don't know how to do what he is suggesting lol

NOOOOOOO! That's Paul McGowan from BS Audio! Eek! One of the worst snake oil peddlers on the planet! If you listen to him he'll also have you spending thousands on speaker cables and interconnects! DO NOT take advice from that cat unless you get independant confirmation from some more objective sources.

Phew, that was a close one, lol.

 

[Pogre]

Oh please don't post up grandpa Paul's nonsense.

Ha ha! That's part of the problem with Paul. He comes across like everyone's wise old grandpa dispensing sage advice with a friendly smile.

@qba, here's an interesting article that includes some back and forth between Paul and our own EIC Gene DelaSala about super expensive interconnects. Ol' Paul demonstrates some of his slippery reasoning for using them with some less than satisfying replies. Also note that he declines any and all offers to participate in objective testing to back up his claims...

Is Synergy In Audio Cables Real or Snake Oil?

PS Audio recently announced a partnership with Audioquest cables citing that their products have a real "synergy" together. Is there any merit this synergistic effect claim or is it pure marketing BS?

www.audioholics.com

 

[qba]

NOOOOOOO! That's Paul McGowan from BS Audio! Eek! One of the worst snake oil peddlers on the planet! If you listen to him he'll also have you spending thousands on speaker cables and interconnects! DO NOT take advice from that cat unless you get independant confirmation from some more objective sources.

Phew, that was a close one, lol.

Thanks a lot this is a clear example of the dangers of being ignorant, all you need is someone with a bit of conviction behind his words mixed with some charisma, and you end up giving away your money or your freedom, that is the typical story behind cult members lol.

 

[qba]

I think if you change the adjustments you can take it out of LFE mode while still using that input. For the Low pass button the manual says:

"Press this button to adjust the Low Pass Filter frequency to ensure a smooth sonic transition and flat frequency response between the speakers and subwoofer. The right most LED on the status bar indicates the subwoofer is in LFE mode."

thanks NINaudio, but to be safe isn't just better to connect to the single coax to the white RCA right beside the red LEF?

 

[NINaudio]

thanks NINaudio, but to be safe isn't just better to connect to the single coax to the white RCA right beside the red LEF?

I'd just use the LFE connection first and see if that LFE light goes away. If not, then use the other connection. I know that in my sub (other brand) that I can change the LPF even though I'm using the LFE connection.