Urban political failure

[Dude#1279435]

Where did you get the idea that I think schools would be overreaching? SOMEONE has to do it and schools used to, but parents didn't like their kids being made to feel sad by being disciplined, so it was stopped.

I agree with the rest of your post. Strict discipline is needed but from personal experience, I don't think parochial schools are the best choice. Some of the worst kids I knew, and I mentioned two of them in a recent post (one had bullied me & others and the other is in prison for murder) went to parochial school and they were complete a$$holes. The girls tended to be in 180° opposition to the virtuous little flowers they were taught to be, too.

Public schools are still going to be the best option. The cost to go elsewhere dictates that.

 

[highfigh]

Public schools are still going to be the best option. The cost to go elsewhere dictates that.

Voucher systems and private schools still provide benefits that aren't realized in public schools.

From the link-

"She says that students using vouchers to attend private schools were somewhat less successful than those who were attending without a voucher, but that “both types of students … were less likely than traditional public school students to ever fail a course, or to ever be suspended in high school, and they were more likely to enroll in college within one year of high school graduation.”

https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/articles/private-school-vs-public-school

The most recent NAEP data shows what other research has found: Private school students score better in almost all subjects.

I wouldn't parrot any comments from DeVos, but I know people who have attended private schools and the kids of parents who are in private schools now- the education they receive is excellent.

 

[Dude#1279435]

Voucher systems and private schools still provide benefits that aren't realized in public schools.

From the link-

"She says that students using vouchers to attend private schools were somewhat less successful than those who were attending without a voucher, but that “both types of students … were less likely than traditional public school students to ever fail a course, or to ever be suspended in high school, and they were more likely to enroll in college within one year of high school graduation.”

https://www.usnews.com/education/k12/articles/private-school-vs-public-school

The most recent NAEP data shows what other research has found: Private school students score better in almost all subjects.

I wouldn't parrot any comments from DeVos, but I know people who have attended private schools and the kids of parents who are in private schools now- the education they receive is excellent.

For a private school they sure use a lot of public resources hehehe.

 

[highfigh]

For a private school they sure use a lot of public resources hehehe.

If the states didn't think the voucher system works, they wouldn't continue funding the programs. My property tax bill is a lot larger than it would be if I lived eight miles to the North or West- does $1.35 Billion sound like a reasonable school budget for 76K students? I don't, but that's the Milwaukee Public School system budget for the current school year. 65% goes toward wages and pensions because the state teacher's education council had set up a pension program with guaranteed payout. Ever heard of that type of pension? How can anyone expect to know the amount needed if investment returns aren't predictable? Most employer contributions to pensions and other retirement plans are guaranteed at the front end, not the back end. This has resulted in massively under-funded payments to retirees and it's making this area far less desirable to prospective homeowners and we, the taxpayers, are saddled with the cost. A friend lives in the adjacent county in a house that's much larger and on a much larger lot than mine, but his property tax bill is only about 65% of what I pay. If I had been able to predict how bad this would become, I never would have bought in MKE county.

 

[panteragstk]

Summer vacation should be eliminated. A two week vacation in December is completely unnecessary. Weeklong breaks should coincide with grading periods, which is to say breaks should be used for grading and preparation of next semester's instructional material. Essentially school should be year round.

School start times must change to suit the biological sleep cycle of the students they serve. School must revolve around students not teachers or sports or the sleep cycle of adults.

Move to the European club model of sports rather than school sponsored sports. At the very least, sports which routinely cause serious head injuries, football and soccer, must not be allowed in an institution that purports to be concerned with the intellectual development of young people.

Make it mandatory that high schools provide shop classes.

Make it mandatory that high schools provide computer programming courses.

Make it mandatory that all pre-k, K, and grade schools must provide second language education as well as English acquisition classes for students whose parents do not speak English.

Provide a healthy breakfast and lunch for ALL students. Meals must be based on the glycemic index in order to give students the best performance possible.

Provide a pay differential for teachers, which is to say that math or computer science teachers should be paid more.

Students that make trouble in the classroom must be sequestered away from students that do not.

Mainstreaming students with special needs without sufficient support staff harms the bulk of students. Schools must hire more counselors, 504 and IEP specialists and speech language pathologists to support the needs of today's students.

Outlaw online education, as it harms underprivileged students the most.

And that's just coming off the top of my head. If the the above policies were followed, I'm confident our education system would see great gains, and our nation would benefit.

I can get behind a lot of this.

My kids, starting in K, had to be in the school at 7:30am. That's crazy. Especially since they stay till 3:10. That is significantly longer than I had to go at that age. We got out much earlier until 3rd or 4th grade I think. It's been a while. The most irritating part to me is that they still have homework. How? What are they doing all day that they still need to do things at home?

Teachers need to get paid and so do support staff. Running a school is difficult, even when the people that want to be there love it.

Breaks are necessary, but need to make sense. An entire summer off is dumb (makes them dumber too), but having a month off here and there makes much more sense. I've seen places that do two months on, two weeks off, and so on. It looks pretty great.

Another thing that schools don't really do is blocked classes. I liked it much nicer having class every other day rather than cramming everything into a single day.

There's a lot more, but our education system should be the envy of the world, just like every other aspect of our life should, but it isn't because too many people don't want to invest in our children.

 

[Old Onkyo]

I can get behind a lot of this.

There's a lot more, but our education system should be the envy of the world, just like every other aspect of our life should, but it isn't because too many people don't want to invest in our children.

Too many people don’t want to invest in other children’s education.

 

[highfigh]

Too many people don’t want to invest in other children’s education.

And that's an incredibly short-sighted view- even people who have no kids should look at it as serving the greater good.

 

[lovinthehd]

Overall is it simply the failure of cities? Especially with outward migration of former or even city dependant people?

 

[Old Onkyo]

And that's an incredibly short-sighted view- even people who have no kids should look at it as serving the greater good.

Pay to educate them or incarcerate them. Either way, society pays.

 

[panteragstk]

Too many people don’t want to invest in other children’s education.

Very much so, and I just don't understand it. At all.

My mom said some BS about how she shouldn't have to pay taxes on schools since she doesn't have kids. After reminding her that I do, she asked how I'd feel if I didn't. My reply was "I have zero problem with it because I don't want to live in a world full of dumbasses." Our garbage education system (especially here in TX) is responsible for people not knowing BS from actual information, and they want to make it worse.

For a woman that complains about my generation (elder millennial, and I'm not included somehow) not knowing anything, she sure doesn't seem keen on anyone else knowing anything either.

I personally think pre-k to an associates degree be paid for, but people around here would either shoot me for saying it, or agree with me 100%. It's crazy to think people think giving an education to people is somehow a bad thing.

These are also the same people that will sh!t all over blue collar workers and tell their kids they need to go to college.

 

[Replicant 7]

Pay to educate them or incarcerate them. Either way, society pays.

It's a Lot more than that, 47% already pay No Fed tax, they already get , SSI checks, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, why get a good education to support yourself contribute to society when you can get a free ride. Thing is some and there are many think it's owed to them they're entitled to it, when they don't get their way they rob, loot, murder and going on rampage burning down businesses. So your paying more than just locking them up. Let's not forget the 11 million illegals in this country we're paying for.. "antifa"

 

[highfigh]

Overall is it simply the failure of cities? Especially with outward migration of former or even city dependant people?

Not the failure of cities, city governments often don't see that they have failed. Decentralization has occurred since cities started to exist- eventually, they need to spread outward and some people will want to return to the less hectic/less populated areas they knew in the past. Eventually, the suburbs/exurbs become part of the city again and Chicago is a good example of that- their suburbs have crept almost to the WI/IL state line, along with the problems from the city.

 

[highfigh]

Pay to educate them or incarcerate them. Either way, society pays.

Would prefer to educate but some kids don't want much to do with staying in school. Some are in situations that don't allow it. Either way, education is a pretty good path out of poverty for many.

 

[lovinthehd]

Not the failure of cities, city governments often don't see that they have failed. Decentralization has occurred since cities started to exist- eventually, they need to spread outward and some people will want to return to the less hectic/less populated areas they knew in the past. Eventually, the suburbs/exurbs become part of the city again and Chicago is a good example of that- their suburbs have crept almost to the WI/IL state line, along with the problems from the city.

So it's those who move to the suburbs that are the problem....yeah I can see that LA puts Chicago to shame in the spreading out thing

 

[Mikado463]

Very much so, and I just don't understand it. At all.

My mom said some BS about how she shouldn't have to pay taxes on schools since she doesn't have kids. After reminding her that I do, she asked how I'd feel if I didn't. My reply was "I have zero problem with it because I don't want to live in a world full of dumbasses." Our garbage education system (especially here in TX) is responsible for people not knowing BS from actual information, and they want to make it worse.

For a woman that complains about my generation (elder millennial, and I'm not included somehow) not knowing anything, she sure doesn't seem keen on anyone else knowing anything either.

I personally think pre-k to an associates degree be paid for, but people around here would either shoot me for saying it, or agree with me 100%. It's crazy to think people think giving an education to people is somehow a bad thing.

These are also the same people that will sh!t all over blue collar workers and tell their kids they need to go to college.

I like your mom............ but seriously, those of us that are seniors have paid in school taxes, depending on where you live and how many kids you have, more than enough to educate. My wife, a retired high school teacher can more than relate to poorly run districts here in Pennsyltucky so that also adds to ones taxation frustration.

back when this country was an industrial force the bedroom communities had less of a tax burden, times have changed

 

[Dude#1279435]

It's a Lot more than that, 47% already pay No Fed tax, they already get , SSI checks, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, why get a good education to support yourself contribute to society when you can get a free ride. Thing is some and there are many think it's owed to them they're entitled to it, when they don't get their way they rob loop murder and going on rampage burning down businesses. So your paying more than just locking them up. Let's not forget the 11 million illegals in this country we're paying for.. "antifa"
View attachment 52100

That's why I thought the FBI had a difficult time describing antifa as a terrorist organization. Every video I've seen thus far they describe themselves as basically meeting up with requirement of wearing black. They were definitely at the WH in mid 2020. I remember seeing them. I thought Charlottesville was sort of the springboard of their emergence in recent years.

 

[Replicant 7]

That's why I thought the FBI had a difficult time describing antifa as a terrorist organization. Every video I've seen thus far they describe themselves as basically meeting up with requirement of wearing black. They were definitely at the WH in mid 2020. I remember seeing them. I thought Charlottesville was sort of the springboard of their emergence in recent years.

Yeah, they slick for sure. Thing about that, some are Paid to go out and cause mayhem especially election year. Remember how the Nazis came into power in the 30s.

 

[Dude#1279435]

The rise of Trump- not to condone antifa but because Trump attracts these alt-right groups, that increased the problem.

 

[highfigh]

So it's those who move to the suburbs that are the problem....yeah I can see that LA puts Chicago to shame in the spreading out thing

Where the eff did you get that idea? I live in a suburb I moved back to the area where I grew up when my parents started having medical problems, because I didn't like what was happening in the city in general and because I sick of having my $hit stolen. I didn't dig the guy trying to break into the house where I lived, either. Or the murder a block away, my neighbor being shot in an attempted robbery, the house next door being broken into, the auto thefts, noise, rapes, etc.

I told someone where I had bought my house and she immediately accused me of White Flight. I then explained where I had lived and after telling her each address, she made the same sound Lucille Ball would when she did or heard something that meant trouble- I'm sure you know the sound. I came here for some damned peace & quiet and even that's gone- car stereos from two blocks away, gunfire, sirens & car chases...

The Chicago metro area has 9.6 million people, LA has 13.2 million but Chicago will never have so many people in that climate. Also, Southern California was claimed by Spain in 1542- the area that became Chicago was turned over to the US after a war in 1795- give them a chance to catch up, will ya?

 

[MaxInValrico]

It's a Lot more than that, 47% already pay No Fed tax, they already get , SSI checks, Medicaid, welfare, food stamps, section 8 housing, why get a good education to support yourself contribute to society when you can get a free ride. Thing is some and there are many think it's owed to them they're entitled to it, when they don't get their way they rob, loot, murder and going on rampage burning down businesses. So your paying more than just locking them up. Let's not forget the 11 million illegals in this country we're paying for.. "antifa"
View attachment 52100

Horse manure nonsense.