Yamaha CX-A5200 and MX-A5200

[snakeeyes]

So apparently, as we found out with my friends Yamaha. When set to front/rear the back sub/s are only active when redirected bass in back channels is present and same for the front of the room. LFE goes to both front and back.
I can’t figure out why this would be a necessary configuration. Especially when you would be missing out on all the reasons for having multiple subs in the first place!

Ya unsure what they were smoking with that front/back sub idea, but possibly in a crossover up high in the 120hz or 160hz someone liked that front/back sub localization concept for HT. LOL

 

[PENG]

I think the main reason for AVP is for LOWER HEAT since it doesn't have 11CH-13CH of amp. The exception was that darn AVP-A1HDCI which got really HOT even without any amps inside.

If the amps are not used, they don't add much heat at all. I had my AV8801 on for half a day, using only the two channel aux XLR inputs and it got surprisingly warm too. On all else being equal basis then of course you would be right, but there is nothing that a $12 fan cannot solve. My goal is still to go back to AVP, and I hope Yamaha would take Gene and Amir's findings serious enough to make sure the 5300 measure good, audibly or not.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If the amps are not used, they don't add much heat at all. I had my AV8801 on for half a day, using only the two channel aux XLR inputs and it got surprisingly warm too. On all else being equal basis then of course you would be right, but there is nothing that a $12 fan cannot solve. My goal is still to go back to AVP, and I hope Yamaha would take Gene and Amir's findings serious enough to make sure the 5300 measure good, audibly or not.

Fans - yeah, USB fans will work. But I would rather not have to use any fans if possible.

In a way, it's like having THD+N of 0.03% vs 0.003%. Sure, 0.03% "will work" and still sound awesome. But I would rather have 0.003% or 0.0007%. Yes, Fans will work and still sound awesome. But to me, having to use fans is like having THD+N of 0.03%, instead of 0.003%.

Yeah, just a matter of time before Yamaha will get the CX-A5300's THD+N to 0.00X-status again like the CX-A5100 or even 0.000X-status.

But I would be happy for 0.00X THD+N for XLR at 4V.

I know you want 3 zeros (0.000X) THD+N.

 

[PENG]

Fans - yeah, USB fans will work. But I would rather not have to use any fans if possible.

In a way, it's like having THD+N of 0.03% vs 0.003%. Sure, 0.03% "will work" and still sound awesome. But I would rather have 0.003% or 0.0007%. Yes, Fans will work and still sound awesome. But to me, having to use fans is like having THD+N of 0.03%, instead of 0.003%.

Yeah, just a matter of time before Yamaha will get the CX-A5300's THD+N to 0.00X-status again like the CX-A5100 or even 0.000X-status.

But I would be happy for 0.00X THD+N for XLR at 4V.

I know you want 3 zeros (0.000X) THD+N.

Yes, 3 zeros (or 2 zeroes after the decimal, followed by a "1")to help me switch if for no other reasons, other than I really want to try a Yamaha. I have only had one Yamaha AVR so far. It still won't be easy in the end because all my Denon and Marantz have been completely trouble free for all these years so again, the zeros will make it much easier for sure.

 

[PENG]

Fans - yeah, USB fans will work. But I would rather not have to use any fans if possible.

Forgot to mention, if used as prepro, even Marantz AVRs (expected to be even warmer than Denon) may not need a fan as long as there is room to vent as recommended by manufacturers and ECO set to "on".

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yes, 3 zeros (or 2 zeroes after the decimal, followed by a "1")to help me switch if for no other reasons, other than I really want to try a Yamaha. I have only had one Yamaha AVR so far. It still won't be easy in the end because all my Denon and Marantz have been completely trouble free for all these years so again, the zeros will make it much easier for sure.

So my wish list for both DM + Y:

Yamaha: Give us the darn 0.000X THD+N

Denon/Marantz: Give us a better repair center/customer service - get rid of that pathetic Panurgy

I know others are a lot more picky, like wanting Yamaha to ditch YPAO and add DIRAC. But I am not picky at all. I don't care about Room EQ. Just gimme that 0.000X THD+N.

 

[speedr911]

What are the stats when the front 2 channels are bridged in BTL mode?

 

[Verdinut]

Forgot to mention, if used as prepro, even Marantz AVRs (expected to be even warmer than Denon) may not need a fan as long as there is room to vent as recommended by manufacturers and ECO set to "on".

If the AVR is set to be used in the preamp mode, why would the ECO setting make a difference since none of the onboard amps are powered?

 

[PENG]

If the AVR is set to be used in the preamp mode, why would the ECO setting make a difference since none of the onboard amps are powered?

Two thing you need to know:
1. The onboard amps are always powered, preamp mode only disconnect the signal line but not the power rail. Obviously the power amps won't be powering any speaker, but they themselves will still be powered.
2. In preamp mode, ECO will be activated automatically, you can't do anything about it. ECO mode lowers the power rail so bias current will be much lower and the amps will dissiplate much less heat.

 

[Verdinut]

2. In preamp mode, ECO will be activated automatically, you can't do anything about it. ECO mode lowers the power rail so bias current will be much lower and the amps will dissiplate much less heat.

The screen display for my AVR-X3700H says that the ECO mode can't be set when the "Amp Assign" is set to "Pre Amplifier". If it can't be set, is it really activated as you say? I would have thought that Denon would have simply indicated then that the ECO mode was automatically set when the AVR was being operated as a preamp.

 

[Verdinut]

I've just verified power consumption of the Denon AVR-X3700H.

Consumption at standby: 6.3 watts at 120.0 volts

But there's something which I find weird: Consumption in Preamp mode would be about 55 watts at 118.6 volts

Consumption with Amp Assign at 11.1 ch (5 ch & Surround Back) is same 55 watts!

I should conclude that my Kill-A-Watt tester is defective but it did measure a difference between the standby and the preamp mode situations.

 

[PENG]

The screen display for my AVR-X3700H says that the ECO mode can't be set when the "Amp Assign" is set to "Pre Amplifier". If it can't be set, is it really activated as you say? I would have thought that Denon would have simply indicated then that the ECO mode was automatically set when the AVR was being operated as a preamp.

Yes, that's why you cannot set it because it was already engaged and fixed in that mode. I told someone on ASR who also questioned me (rightfully so) and he eventually understood my point.

Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated) | Page 93 | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum

 

[PENG]

I've just verified power consumption of the Denon AVR-X3700H.

Consumption at standby: 6.3 watts at 120.0 volts

But there's something which I find weird: Consumption in Preamp mode would be about 55 watts at 118.6 volts

Consumption with Amp Assign at 11.1 ch (5 ch & Surround Back) is same 55 watts!

I should conclude that my Kill-A-Watt tester is defective but it did measure a difference between the standby and the preamp mode situations.

Why, what is weird about that? Did you mean it was 55 W steady while watching a 5.1 movie? Please provide more details so may be I could rationale the readings for you.

 

[Verdinut]

Why, what is weird about that? Did you mean it was 55 W steady while watching a 5.1 movie? Please provide more details so may be I could rationale the readings for you.

No, I didn't watch any movie while doing the tests.

But, you indicated that the onboard amps were still powered while the AVR was set as a Preamp. It seems weird that it draws only 55 watts when all the onboard amps are still powered. Does it mean that the whole power supply only draws 55 watts when idling, for an AVR with 9 onboard amps? By comparison, each one of my QSC DCA 1222 amps which has a switching power supply draws approximately 100 watts when idling.

 

[PENG]

No, I didn't watch any movie while doing the tests.

But, you indicated that the onboard amps were still powered while the AVR was set as a Preamp. It seems weird that it draws only 55 watts when all the onboard amps are still powered. Does it mean that the whole power supply only draws 55 watts when idling, for an AVR with 9 onboard amps? By comparison, each one of my QSC DCA 1222 amps which has a switching power supply draws approximately 100 watts when idling.

In preamp mode, the internal amps are not "powering" any speakers so the power consumption will be low because it would be from the biased current mainly. So there is nothing weird about that at all. In fact the onboard power amps won't draw anywhere near that much either, most of the 55 watts consumption would be by the preamp/DAC section, not the amp section.

In amp assign mode, it would depend on how many channels of the internal amps you are using and obviously the contents being played, you speakers and volume setting.

 

[red_5ive]

Does anyone know exactly what the Yamaha DSPs/Surround:AI does when applied to Atmos? I'm currently running front and rear heights, and whenever I turn on Surround:AI I swear it sounds like I have overhead channels. If I disable AI and run processor direct for Atmos, I don't get anywhere near the amount of overhead effects.

The manual says Surround:AI can be used with Atmos even with presence speakers, but I don't know for sure if what I'm hearing is just the proprietary DSPs doing their usual thing, or if it's somehow producing an overhead image? I mean sounds really appear to be floating above the middle of the room. I at one point also had the front presence in the up-firing position (although closer to the ceiling) and the results were generally the same (both positions calibrated by YPAO). I toggled between the DTS-HD MA and Atmos tracks on the Ready Player One UHD disc, and I swear to the above when AI is applied to the Atmos track, and not so much on the DTS-HD MA track. But there is a few seconds difference for signal lock when switching tracks so it isn't seemless trying to get a read on what I'm hearing.