Looking for upgrade to home theater mains and surrounds, open to suggestions on room layout

[SpartanD]

I am running a Denon AVR-2800 receiver and just upgraded my center channel to a R-25C. Compared to my old SC.5 center channel, the center channel sound is amazing! My "mains" are Klipsch KSB1.1 and surrounds are from the Klipsch Quintet series. My subwoofer is a Klipsch 10KSW and puts out adequate base. My TV room is 12' Wide by 14' Long with a 48" doorway about in the middle of the left wall with an adjoining kitchen opposite the living room. The right wall has a sliding glass door behind the curtain. The mains are wall mounted while the surrounds are ceiling mounted. I'd live to give at least the mains some additional punch as they aren't that good for music, and thought about the RP-500M, but they don't wall mount. I am also considering the R-51. Space is a bit cramped so there is no room for floorstanding speakers (or even speaker stands for larger bookshelf speakers, at least in the current configuration). See the attached photo for the existing room layout. I am open for advice on speakers, speaker placement, as well as a modifying the room layout a bit. There is a patch panel with cable and speaker connections behind the existing component stand!

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Welcome.
So what kind of budget are you considering? I think the RP-51 would be a decent upgrade. But you’re also going to get a lot of recommendations for a new subwoofer too. Not because of inadequate bass, but for better cleaner bass, and that will help the overall sound quality. That’s helpful especially when using small mains as you’ll probably use a higher XO. Maybe as high as 120hz. That puts a lot of responsibility on the subwoofer. And a mediocre one will sound as such.
Other things are. What are the current settings? Is everything set up properly? Is the sub a little hot? That might give you some extra punch etc.
I definitely think an upgrade to the mains is in order for sure. But I disagree that you don’t have room. Even if you feel the need to wall mount them, imo you have plenty of room to move the speaker mounts. Maybe lower than a little too. That would help bring the LCR closer to the same horizontal plane and offer a more seamless front stage.
The surrounds are a little too high as well, but the glass makes it hard to go lower.
I would also recommend moving the CC to the front edge of the stand. It will sound even better. I would consider raising it up to the bottom of the tv too. That will help keep sounds anchored to the screen, and again with the horizontal plane thing. Plus the chair in front of it isn’t helping.

Edit: oh and get the TT off the receiver. It’s a good way to cook both.

 

[Pogre]

I think with a little bit of rearranging you can fit some speaker stands or even towers in that space. Positioning and placement have as much to do with sound quality as the speakers.

 

[Eppie]

The R-51 has a rear firing port which may not be ideal close to a wall. The RB-61 with a front firing port may work better. Gibby's in Canada has the RB-61 on sale for about the same price as the R-51 right now. There may be similar sales in the U.S. You'll need shelves to sit them on.

I also would not discount small stands or narrow floor standers. You may have space with careful re-arranging. The stands could sit inside the components (where the sub is now) and the wood cabinet, unless you are worried about children knocking the stands over. There are adjustable telescoping stands that have a small footprint.

 

[SpartanD]

The R-51 has a rear firing port which may not be ideal close to a wall. The RB-61 with a front firing port may work better. Gibby's in Canada has the RB-61 on sale for about the same price as the R-51 right now. There may be similar sales in the U.S. You'll need shelves to sit them on.

I also would not discount small stands or narrow floor standers. You may have space with careful re-arranging. The stands could sit inside the components (where the sub is now) and the wood cabinet, unless you are worried about children knocking the stands over. There are adjustable telescoping stands that have a small footprint.

Thanks, Eppie! I just ordered the RB-61 ii speakers off ebay. They had some amazing reviews!! Also ordered some stands. I'll make that work, too.

What about the surrounds?

 

[j_garcia]

Got to get those fronts out of the corners, so speakers on stands more toward the middle will benefit you. Surrounds look OK. Are the surrounds inverted, like with Tweeters on the bottom vs. top? Small detail, but it can help reduce some immediate reflection off the ceiling. I'd probably try out a few positions for that sub and see what works the best, but overall the system looks good.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks, Eppie! I just ordered the RB-61 ii speakers off ebay. They had some amazing reviews!! Also ordered some stands. I'll make that work, too.

What about the surrounds?

Nice. I hope they work out well for you. I will echo William's comments as he gave some very good advice. Try to raise the center closer to the TV and align the front face with the front edge of the table or shelf. That helps eliminate reflections from the table directly in front of the speaker. It will also get the center more in line with the mains horizontally once you get them set up. The center carries most of the dialogue so good placement can help. Rerun Audyssey when you get the new speakers and run it again if you move the center.

Judging by the photo I think you have the surrounds in the best place available. No options for side surrounds or rears. I'm in the same boat and have my surrounds in the ceiling. If you have enough height, have you thought about using your current main speakers and mounts as surrounds? If they are too bulky, Klipsch also makes surface mount surrounds that have an angled face, but the RP-500sa is even more expensive than the RB-61 as it's part of the Reference Premier line. Try your new mains first and see if you need to change the surrounds afterwards but I think the old mains will sound better than the small surrounds you have now. If you can get the mounting holes to match, might be something you can try without damaging the ceiling.

I used to have a 10" Klipsch downward firing sub like yours in a 12x16' room. While the bass seemed adequate at the time, one of the biggest improvements I made was replacing that sub with an SVS subwoofer. Ported subs can get large, so I went with a 12" sealed unit which was only a little bit bigger than the Klipsch, but went significantly deeper with more output. Something to think about if you're looking for other upgrades down the road. Let us know how those RB-61's work out.

 

[SpartanD]

Hello fellow Audioholics!

Here is an update on the progress made on our home theater.
1. Installed the RB61 ii speakers, mounting them on some nice affordable speaker stands from Monoprice.
2. Removed the table (and chair) and mounted the center channel on center channel mounting brackets.
3. Centered the subwoofer (for aesthetics mostly) under the center channel
4. Relocated the old mains to the surround locations
5. Put the amplifier on it's own shelf (no turntable on top any longer
6. Organized the wires.

It looks much better and sounds amazing! Thank you to all who gave suggestions on how to improve our home theater system!

 

[Pogre]

Hello fellow Audioholics!

Here is an update on the progress made on our home theater.
1. Installed the RB61 ii speakers, mounting them on some nice affordable speaker stands from Monoprice.
2. Removed the table (and chair) and mounted the center channel on center channel mounting brackets.
3. Centered the subwoofer (for aesthetics mostly) under the center channel
4. Relocated the old mains to the surround locations
5. Put the amplifier on it's own shelf (no turntable on top any longer
6. Organized the wires.

It looks much better and sounds amazing! Thank you to all who gave suggestions on how to improve our home theater system!


View attachment 51820

That's awesome! I'm glad you were able to realize some improvements. From what I see you do have a little bit of wiggle room to maybe get a little bit more distance between the main speakers. That might open up your soundstage a little more, but either way your current placement looks a lot better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well done! It’s great to see someone taking advice instead of arguing for justification of a wonky setup. I agree with @Pogre about moving the mains out a little bit. But still. It looks better. I have no doubt it sounds better too.
Nice!

 

[Eppie]

Hello fellow Audioholics!

Here is an update on the progress made on our home theater.
1. Installed the RB61 ii speakers, mounting them on some nice affordable speaker stands from Monoprice.
2. Removed the table (and chair) and mounted the center channel on center channel mounting brackets.
3. Centered the subwoofer (for aesthetics mostly) under the center channel
4. Relocated the old mains to the surround locations
5. Put the amplifier on it's own shelf (no turntable on top any longer
6. Organized the wires.

It looks much better and sounds amazing! Thank you to all who gave suggestions on how to improve our home theater system!


View attachment 51820

That's great! Thanks for taking the time to update us and post another picture. I'm glad that you were able to use the old mains as surrounds and mounting them on the wall makes them look less obtrusive. Nicely done.