Landmonster's Subwoofer quest is over (or just started?) = dual Monolith 16 Ultras

Did Landmonster order too much subwoofer output?


  • Total voters
    15
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
"I did not dare go beyond -0 DB on the Denon, because my wife came in yelling that all the ceiling can-lights and door hinges in the rooms downstairs were vibrating 4 rooms away. So at this point, I am not sure what effect these subs may have on the structure of the house itself."


That is so friggin awesome bro you had me laughing so hard when you posted that. Congratulations on a awesome purchase.

You also have officially made me have to get these subs now
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
"I did not dare go beyond -0 DB on the Denon, because my wife came in yelling that all the ceiling can-lights and door hinges in the rooms downstairs were vibrating 4 rooms away. So at this point, I am not sure what effect these subs may have on the structure of the house itself."


That is so friggin awesome bro you had me laughing so hard when you posted that. Congratulations on a awesome purchase.

You also have officially made me have to get these subs now

Thanks. I will get pics soon... I need a better media cabinet now because the way I have these subs rigged in there looks very "redneck" at best.


To be fair, I don't know that other brands would do to my house. SVS, JTR, Rythmik might do the same thing.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Nooooooooooooo…. Not a media cabinet! Nobody sticks Baby in a cubby! :mad:

:p
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
Nooooooooooooo…. Not a media cabinet! Nobody sticks Baby in a cubby! :mad:

:p
Not the subs. I have my equipment stuffed in a tv stand from my old house. This tv stand is now crooked to accommodate the floor space of the Monoliths.

By the way, Monolith is a super appropriate name imprinted on the front of each sub.

For you furniture gurus…. If anyone knows of an audio rack that’s 24” tall that can hold an Emotiva gen3 amp, I’m all ears. It needs to be 20” deep.
 
D

Danzilla31

Audioholic Spartan
Not the subs. I have my equipment stuffed in a tv stand from my old house. This tv stand is now crooked to accommodate the floor space of the Monoliths.

By the way, Monolith is a super appropriate name imprinted on the front of each sub.

For you furniture gurus…. If anyone knows of an audio rack that’s 24” tall that can hold an Emotiva gen3 amp, I’m all ears. It needs to be 20” deep.
Well look around online I'm sure some of us can find something
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
2 Questions for you guys:

1) Should we leave these subs powered on all the time? There does not seem to be any easy way to turn them off... short of this tiny switch in the rear sub panel. I can do that if needed, that's very hard to get to on subs this size.
--Is this consuming lots of electricity at idle?
--Is this bad for the sub's amplifiers?
--Does this pose a fire hazard?


2) What crossover point is generally a good idea to use in the receiver?

-- Should I set a fixed point for all speakers? or vary it per speaker? ( I have LsiM 707 towers up front, which can dig very deep on their own, but LSiM 702 surrounds on the side, which are obviously less capable.
-- Should all speakers be set to "large" or "small"? I am using 2 large tower speakers for FR Left and FR Right, and 2 rear surrounds.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
2 Questions for you guys:

1) Should we leave these subs powered on all the time? There does not seem to be any easy way to turn them off... short of this tiny switch in the rear sub panel. I can do that if needed, that's very hard to get to on subs this size.
--Is this consuming lots of electricity at idle?
--Is this bad for the sub's amplifiers?
--Does this pose a fire hazard?


2) What crossover point is generally a good idea to use in the receiver?

-- Should I set a fixed point for all speakers? or vary it per speaker? ( I have LsiM 707 towers up front, which can dig very deep on their own, but LSiM 702 surrounds on the side, which are obviously less capable.
-- Should all speakers be set to "large" or "small"? I am using 2 large tower speakers for FR Left and FR Right, and 2 rear surrounds.
1) there should be an “auto” selection on the switch. Or a fire hazard to leave on all the time.
2)speakers set to small with an 80hz XO is a good place to start. Then you can experiment with different ones to see what you get. I generally like 50-60hz on my mains especially for music. They are rated to 35hz.
A global XO can be great, but some systems benefit from individual XO points. Again, if you have time and patience, experimenting is best. Then you have references of what you like.
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
1) there should be an “auto” selection on the switch. Or a fire hazard to leave on all the time.
2)speakers set to small with an 80hz XO is a good place to start. Then you can experiment with different ones to see what you get. I generally like 50-60hz on my mains especially for music. They are rated to 35hz.
A global XO can be great, but some systems benefit from individual XO points. Again, if you have time and patience, experimenting is best. Then you have references of what you like.
I already have it set to auto, but I don't know how this works. The red light never seems to turn off even with the connected receiver is off.

As far as the crossovers.... I guess my thinking is this.

What combination yields the lowest distortion?
For a sub-80hz bass note, will the subwoofer or Polk tower do a better job of reproducing the sound with less distortion?

Given that the subs have their own amp and are THX-ultra rated, it seems like they might have less distortion than the Polks?
Then again, if I am cutting off the towers and letting the subs repdroduce the bass, what is the point of owning tower speakers?

What combination yields the best output?
Could I get more "bass output" in the room by allowing my 4 towers and 2 subs to produce bass cohesively somehow... both producing bass in an overlapping range? or would that cause more distortion? --- It SEEMS like you could theoretically get more output by allowing all the speakers and subs to work cohesively.

Then again, if the sub can do that range with less strain and distortion, perhaps it is better to let it handle it.

I have no measurements here... just pondering.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
The standby mode is fine. You can turn them off, but the DSP is like a computer and takes some time to “boot.” Either way, power consumption is minimal. Leave them in auto.

For crossovers, even with my speakers capable to 25 and 35 Hz extension, I found an 80hz XO gives excellent clarity to the mids and highs more so than even a 70 Hz cross.
For me, it’s about overall SQ. Every one in their individual rooms will experience this differently. The best I can suggest is to spend time listening to your mans in stereo with the subs and some good recordings. Play with the settings as you listen. Do this over the course of a few days.
For other speakers, I recommend crossing an octave above their F3. So for a 50Hz speaker, 100. 55Hz; 110. I would not cross higher than that.
It is said by some, that as little as half an octave is good, too.
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
Ryanosaur, based on your math:
I looked up the -3db frequency range of the speakers, and listed below:

LSIM 707 is 38hz, should be crossed at 80hz
LSIM 705 is 42hz, should be crossed at 80hz
LSIM 706c center is 50hz, should be crossed at 100hz
LSIM 703 bookshelf is 50hz, should be crossed at 100hz
LSIM 702 side surrounds are 55hz, should be crossed at 110hz

Does this look good?
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Ryanosaur, based on your math:
I looked up the -3db frequency range of the speakers, and listed below:

LSIM 707 is 38hz, should be crossed at 80hz
LSIM 705 is 42hz, should be crossed at 80hz
LSIM 706c center is 50hz, should be crossed at 100hz
LSIM 703 bookshelf is 50hz, should be crossed at 100hz
LSIM 702 side surrounds are 55hz, should be crossed at 110hz

Does this look good?
That’s where I would start.

I would leave your Center, Surrounds and Rears alone.
I encourage experimentation with you mains.
If you have trained your hearing at all, you may detect the differences I mentioned earlier. Either way, it’s a cool and possibly educational exercise to go through, listening in stereo with subs and adjusting the xo.
;)
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
80 hz is a good starting point and where most folks end up. My speakers dip down to the high 30s- I just call it 40 and use a 80 hz crossover myself.

A slightly late congrats on the new subwoofage too!
 
Landmonster

Landmonster

Audioholic
80 hz is a good starting point and where most folks end up. My speakers dip down to the high 30s- I just call it 40 and use a 80 hz crossover myself.

A slightly late congrats on the new subwoofage too!
Thanks. They provided a pretty huge upgrade. I'm wondering what to upgrade/add next.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks. They provided a pretty huge upgrade. I'm wondering what to upgrade/add next.
You're pretty healthily into diminishing returns territory now. You have good speakers and subs, now is when you turn to optimizing it all. If you haven't already you could consider a calibrated mic, REW and a way to eq your subs. The big 3 that gave me that wow factor was better speakers, better subs, then eq for my subs. You're in good shape for the first 2. The ability to zero in on problems with my fr with a mic and REW and fix them made me feel like I upgraded my subs again.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
So much Polk hate
I'm not hating on them. But Speakers are SQ, above all else. I know the L series you have are generally well regarded.
You should enjoy them, but if you think there is another upgrade you should spend money on... then the Speakers become the logical choice. That's all.
And if you do choose to, as I said, no reason not to enjoy them for a few years as you fill your HT Piggy Bank. :)
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
So much Polk hate
Polk kinda did that to themselves, they were quite the splash when they first arrived on the scene, but sort of became more of a commodity brand for middle of the road best buy in recent years and the brand is just one of several at Sound United now. They have somewhat come up with some more impressive model lines recently, like the Legends, but even that's more a play on their past.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Overlord
I already have it set to auto, but I don't know how this works. The red light never seems to turn off even with the connected receiver is off.

As far as the crossovers.... I guess my thinking is this.

What combination yields the lowest distortion?
For a sub-80hz bass note, will the subwoofer or Polk tower do a better job of reproducing the sound with less distortion?

Given that the subs have their own amp and are THX-ultra rated, it seems like they might have less distortion than the Polks?
Then again, if I am cutting off the towers and letting the subs repdroduce the bass, what is the point of owning tower speakers?

What combination yields the best output?
Could I get more "bass output" in the room by allowing my 4 towers and 2 subs to produce bass cohesively somehow... both producing bass in an overlapping range? or would that cause more distortion? --- It SEEMS like you could theoretically get more output by allowing all the speakers and subs to work cohesively.

Then again, if the sub can do that range with less strain and distortion, perhaps it is better to let it handle it.

I have no measurements here... just pondering.
So if the light NEVER goes off, something is wrong. It should only come on after it gets a signal(like bass). And then shut off after say, 15 minutes without a signal.
For the XO, and lowest distortion, that will depend on a few things. MV level, and content at the least. And again, for the sub 80hz note imo, this will depend on a couple things. First of all will be how the subs and mains are integrated, and what the actual frequency response looks like. If the XO zone in general is not smooth, neither the subs OR mains will produce it well, since that 80hz note could be stuck in a null. So integration is key. FWIW, I like my mains crossed lower than 80. They have 12” woofers and deliver very clean midrange and lower midrange. My subs, while sounding great crossed at 80 tend to be less “clean” for lack of a better description. Again, integration is key, and distortion probably won’t be an issue unless you are pushing the system very very hard.
As for cutting off towers wasting their potential. I will say no. Keep in mind when I say this. Not all towers are created equal. So…
Most towers are more sensitive than their BS counterparts so that makes them easier to drive to higher levels. They also normally share the power and thermal loads between multiple(or larger) drivers. And IME, even above the XO, they CAN be more dynamic than BS speakers. You need to take into account though, playback levels are a big factor. If you listen at -40 all the time, then you might as well have a soundbar since you’re not asking much in return, and your subs won’t shake your couch, and your speakers won’t peel your skin!
Your point about using the speakers and subs all together to produce bass has much merit. But be prepared to move stuff around, and run a minidsp and take 10,000 measurements. Multiple bass drivers are a great way to smoother bass response, but just simply having them is no guarantee. It could make things worse with peaks nulls, and can take a lot of work. As you said, the subs are quite capable. I would keep it simple and run them small with a global XO for a while. Since you’ve never had subs before, you should really set them up, and then just simply use the system. Pay attention and see what you like and don’t like. Maybe you don’t even know those things yet, but time is the best way to find out. THEN…..REW. And deeper in the rabbit hole. Lol
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
So if the light NEVER goes off, something is wrong. It should only come on after it gets a signal(like bass). And then shut off after say, 15 minutes without a signal.
With the Outlaws, the red light is on when in standby, turns green when powered. For me, there is always a light.
 
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