Rythmik FV18(x4) vs Rythmik FV25HP(x2) vs JTR Captivator 2400(x2) vs Monolith 16 THX(x2)

[KING DRANZER]

Which is the best for Music and Movies. Initially was going for Rythmik FV18 as it was the best for Music as well as Movies at that budget range. Coming up in budget which will be better. The SUB needs to have tight and controlled Bass while being able to go really low and deep. It needs to be accurate for Music but also pack punch for Movies.

Most probably gonna be paired with JTR Noesis 212 HTR for Front and Surround.

What I am looking at :

Rythmik FV18 x 4
Rythmik FV25HP x 2
JTR Captivator 2400 x 2
Monolith 16 THX x 2

50/50 Music/Movies

Present 2000cft. Gonna move into 4000-5000cft room in 2Yrs. Will be carrying the setup there.

 

[ryanosaur]

Which is the best for Music and Movies. Initially was going for Rythmik FV18 as it was the best for Music as well as Movies at that budget range. Coming up in budget which will be better. The SUB needs to have tight and controlled Bass while being able to go really low and deep. It needs to be accurate for Music but also pack punch for Movies.

Most probably gonna be paired with JTR Noesis 212 HTR for Front and Surround.

50/50 Music/Movies

Present 2000cft. Gonna move into 4000-5000cft room in 2Yrs. Will be carrying the setup there.

Drink!

The Official _/Unofficial/_ AH Drinking Game!

I've been joking about this for far, far too long. It started up as an idea in my head after AH was inundated with people buying lower-tier B&W Speakers and coming on the Forum to find out why they sounded like @$$ once they set them up in their home. :) After that, there were... other topics of...

forums.audioholics.com

Any well designed subwoofer will adequately and accurately reproduce whatever sound it is tasked with.

 

[ryanosaur]

FWIW, you should add the new Monolith 16s to your list. The numbers Shady reported are pretty fantastic for both of their new Subs.

 

[lovinthehd]

JTR as you might be able to wangle a group discount with the speakers....but really can't go wrong with these subs either. Or maybe a Deep Sea Sound sub.... https://www.deepseasound.com/collections/all

 

[KING DRANZER]

Okay Monolith 16in THX added to the competition.

 

[Pogre]

You're definitely not pussy footing around with your sub choices! Some big, powerful subs there!

This whole for music or for movies thing... we've discussed this in your speaker thread. If good for music it's good for ht! This applies exponentially more to subwoofers! You don't really hear bass the same way you do higher frequencies. There is no "better" for one or the other at this level. Rythmik subs are not, NOT necessarily superior for music!

Good linear clean bass extension is what's important, and the subs you're looking at (including Monoprice Monolith subwoofers) are all going to be great for music. I'll tell ya, I've been eyeballing and coveting Monoprice's newest Monolith THX subwoofer offerings. They look very, very good!

 

[KING DRANZER]

JTR as you might be able to wangle a group discount with the speakers....but really can't go wrong with these subs either. Or maybe a Deep Sea Sound sub.... https://www.deepseasound.com/collections/all

After Discount the JTR gonna cost as much as Rythmik. So yeah no big price difference. They all should be under $3-3.1K

 

[KING DRANZER]

You're definitely not pussy footing around with your sub choices! Some big, powerful subs there!

This whole for music or for movies thing... we've discussed this in your speaker thread. If good for music it's good for ht! This applies exponentially more to subwoofers! You don't really hear bass the same way you do higher frequencies. There is no "better" for one or the other at this level. Rythmik subs are not, NOT necessarily superior for music!

Good linear clean bass extension is what's important, and the subs you're looking at (including Monoprice Monolith subwoofers) are all going to be great for music. I'll tell ya, I've been eyeballing and coveting Monoprice's newest Monolith THX subwoofer offerings. They look very, very good!

Not compulsory man. See for example I ended up picking JTR Noesis 212 HTR over Salk Sound 3 which were clearly known to be better for Music. But they lacked the dynamics in the Movies. So not always speakers which are good for Music end being good for Movies. I had to consider which was comparatively a bigger tradeoff and ended up picking up JTR over Salk.

With Rythmik subs what I have heard is that thanks to their Direct Servo technology even while being Ported they have extreme control over the movement of the driver which is close to being as accurate as Sealed sub-woofer for Music while have deep low end going way past our listening range thanks to them being Ported which is good for Movies.

 

[Pogre]

Not compulsory man. See for example I ended up picking JTR Noesis 212 HTR over Salk Sound 3 which were clearly known to be better for Music. But they lacked the dynamics in the Movies. So not always speakers which are good for Music end being good for Movies. I had to consider which was comparatively a bigger tradeoff and ended up picking up JTR over Salk.

With Rythmik subs what I have heard is that thanks to their Direct Servo technology even while being Ported they have extreme control over the movement of the driver which is close to being as accurate as Sealed sub-woofer for Music while have deep low end going way past our listening range thanks to them being Ported which is good for Movies.

It's not a definitive fact that Salk is necessarily better for music. That's entirely subjective. They're both excellent for music and there are folks who would say JTR is better.

Subs are even less distinctive than speakers. There is no voicing or timbre matching involved with bass frequencies that would impart a different sound signature or be more "musical".

 

[lovinthehd]

The whole speaker/sub thing one being good for "music" vs "movies" is just something I don't give much credence to. If a speaker is accurate, it's accurate. If it's capable of high spl, it's capable of high spl. Just need to find one that works for you. So why not the 215RTs ?

 

[ryanosaur]

With Rythmik subs what I have heard is that thanks to their Direct Servo technology

I have no complaint about Rythmik, but you must put the Servo technology in perspective. Prior to advances in modeling and design of higher performance Drivers and Cabinets (parts and complete system), yes, the Servo were a boon to "accuracy and tightness" in low frequency reproduction.
Rythmik hasn't changed, but the world around them has changed drastically.
The Group Delay on those Monoliths, IIRC, stays below 1 cycle all the way down. It doesn't even begin to be considered bad until it gets over 1.5 cycles. This is the benefit of modern design on display in full force.

 

[KING DRANZER]

It's not a definitive fact that Salk is necessarily better for music. That's entirely subjective. They're both excellent for music and there are folks who would say JTR is better.

Subs are even less distinctive than speakers. There is no voicing or timbre matching involved with bass frequencies that would impart a different sound signature or be more "musical".

Yes he doesn't care for timber matching subs. But I was unsure of output levels of Rythmik matching JTR. I already know that Audyssey on Denon receiver gonna handle it well. But just wanted to make sure. See because if JTR has better offering I would go with it over Rythmik as both gonna cost me same. But only if it equal or better to Rythmik for Music Performance. Same goes for Monolith THX SUB

 

[lovinthehd]

What makes for good "music performance", tho?

 

[KING DRANZER]

I have no complaint about Rythmik, but you must put the Servo technology in perspective. Prior to advances in modeling and design of higher performance Drivers and Cabinets (parts and complete system), yes, the Servo were a boon to "accuracy and tightness" in low frequency reproduction.
Rythmik hasn't changed, but the world around them has changed drastically.
The Group Delay on those Monoliths, IIRC, stays below 1 cycle all the way down. It doesn't even begin to be considered bad until it gets over 1.5 cycles. This is the benefit of modern design on display in full force.

You see that's why I am here. To understand and get the best advise.

 

[KING DRANZER]

What makes for good "music performance", tho?

Needs to be Tight and Fast and Controlled similar to a Closed SUB. That is for Music. But it needs to handle ot to be able to reach way low in frequency range like way below listening range for Movies hence the list of Ported SUBs.

 

[lovinthehd]

Needs to be Tight and Fast and Controlled similar to a Closed SUB. That is for Music. But it needs to handle ot to be able to reach way low in frequency range like way below listening range for Movies hence the list of Ported SUBs.

Your name shouting is enough!

Try the sub bass myths to start perhaps https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

 

[ryanosaur]

In terms of Salk Speakers, I would agree... Dennis and Jim do not really design for High Output. (Or, as Dennis refers to it, an SPL nightmare.
My whole rig is Dennis' gear. In a small room, it gets PLENTY loud enough. If you are in a very large room, seated 9-12' away, it might not carry the day.
That said, they are supremely accurate and detailed Speakers. And in that, it doesn't matter whether it is Music or Movie or Game... The sound you hear is arguably what you were intended to hear.

For Subs, as has been said before, there is no real issue in timbre matching, as there is across your Front 3. It's nice to have your Surrounds and Rears match up, too, but definitely lower on the priority scale.
True Bass, however, we hear differently.

My only bone to pick is to get away from this notion of Sealed vs Ported and Music vs HT categorization.

You are choosing JTR Speakers, I would be inclined to stick with Jeff's gear. The reviews and measurements I've seen show him to be truly legit in what he's doing. If you have a concern, talk to him about it. If you agree, buy, if you don't look elsewhere.

If you want insane output down low and to really have a visceral experience, I would go for the Deep Sea Mariana 24" using the Stereo Integrity 24" Driver, then add a Devastator or two from GSG above that. That 24" will take you deep, and the Devastators will give you some serious chest punch-slam. This is a proven combination and severely potent. If you were a DIY guy, you could build them yourself and save some coin over having other people do it.

 

[Pogre]

Yes he doesn't care for timber matching subs. But I was unsure of output levels of Rythmik matching JTR. I already know that Audyssey on Denon receiver gonna handle it well. But just wanted to make sure. See because if JTR has better offering I would go with it over Rythmik as both gonna cost me same. But only if it equal or better to Rythmik for Music Performance. Same goes for Monolith THX SUB

Sufficient power, size, linearity and bass extension are the main goals. There was a time, decades ago, before computer modeling, advanced materials and design that ported subs got a bad rap. Those days are long gone. Science and technology have caught ported subs up to the point that servos aren't needed and the well designed ones are just as tight and clean as sealed or ported servo.

I should say that I don't have anything against Rhythmik. They make great subs. I just think the servo tech is overrated. Mighta been relevant at one time, but not anymore.

 

[KING DRANZER]

How would Purchasing 2 x Rythmik FV18 SUBs now and adding 2 more in future be.

 

[KING DRANZER]

I guess I am giving more credit to the Rythmik SUBs than they are worth it for Music. But have to say that I got that recommended for Music and Movies from the Community. But I guess that went down with the Budget I was going out initially.