Snake oil companies are out of their minds

[Pogre]

I think the folks who buy into this crap are out of their minds. I can at least understand why the companies do it.

 

[marticus]

I think the folks who buy into this crap are out of their minds. I can at least understand why the companies do it.

Yeah greed is easy to understand, but people who delude themselves into acting against their own interests are something else...

 

[Pogre]

Yeah greed is easy to understand, but people who delude themselves into acting against their own interests are something else...

So many folks are truly convinced they're hearing these night and day improvements yet none of them ever do a proper blind comparison to back it up. It's all fueled by expectation bias and the placebo effect. Sighted comparisons are notoriously inaccurate. Here's a dbt I link from time to time that shows once you take sighted bias out of the equation those night and day differences melt away.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

The thing is a dbt is kind of a pain to set up and do properly so not many do it, and even more often will just flat out refuse to participate while doggedly hanging onto the preconception. It gets really frustrating.

 

[Mark E. Long]

And yet the recordings people spend megabucks cables listening to are recorded, mixed, and mastered with pro-audio cable like Canare L-4E6S that costs $0.59/ft on pro-audio sites like Markertek.

Canare L-4E6S Star-Quad Microphone Cable by the Foot - Black

Canare L-4E6S Star Quad has been the industry standard mic cable for sound touring, broadcast studio and on-location techies for over 40 years. Star Quad obtains its name from the 4-conductor style construction that minimizes the 'loop-area' between twists of the conductors.

www.markertek.com

If you don't want to terminate yourself, I've found an Australian-Singaporean company on Amazon, Worlds Best Cables, that sells 3-ft Amphenol-terminated pairs of Canare L-4E6S RCAs for $26. The terminations are solid.

I use this cable in my rig it’s pretty good although I did the terminations with canare rca’s Iam not good with useing a soldering iron but managed to get a few done. Then I found a guy that makes them cheaper than me making a mess of them so went that route. The 4 leads are easy to twist but the shielding is pretty hard at least for me to get undone a learning curve there .
All in all a good cable that does its job at a decent price .

 

[highfigh]

I noticed that too. Man, that is odd, and tells you a lot right there. The units of "velocity" most certainly are NOT in units of "%".

I'm assuming that must be 86% of the speed of light, LOL.

I think they were leaving that up to the readers, who MUST be super-brainiacs if they would be considering those cables in the first place.

However, since they didn't specify the reference, it could very well have been '86% of the speed of wood".

 

[Eppie]

I use this cable in my rig it’s pretty good although I did the terminations with canare rca’s Iam not good with useing a soldering iron but managed to get a few done. Then I found a guy that makes them cheaper than me making a mess of them so went that route. The 4 leads are easy to twist but the shielding is pretty hard at least for me to get undone a learning curve there .
All in all a good cable that does its job at a decent price .

One little trick with braided cable: Rather than trying to unravel the braiding, poke a hole with an awl in the braiding just above where the insulation was stripped off and then fish the inner conductors through the hole. You are left with a nice braided end for the ground.

 

[Mark E. Long]

One little trick with braided cable: Rather than trying to unravel the braiding, poke a hole with an awl in the braiding just above where the insulation was stripped off and then fish the inner conductors through the hole. You are left with a nice braided end for the ground.

Great tip ! Man I fought that stuff till I about give up on it I found a way to unravel it but geez it took forever and it wound very tight . And my soldering skills are Farley weak . A friend of mine works at a music store he I found out makes cables up I had the bulk cable and the terminations he actually made very quick work of them and a nice professional finish of the soldering job . But I really want to learn the process .

 

[Eppie]

Great tip ! Man I fought that stuff till I about give up on it I found a way to unravel it but geez it took forever and it wound very tight . And my soldering skills are Farley weak . A friend of mine works at a music store he I found out makes cables up I had the bulk cable and the terminations he actually made very quick work of them and a nice professional finish of the soldering job . But I really want to learn the process .

Soldering just takes practice. It starts with a good mechanical connection so that the wires don't move. I'm not a big fan of people who just lay a wire on a terminal and rely entirely on the solder to make the connection. That should be reserved for solder with a lower lead content that is less soft and not prone to having the conductor work its way loose over time. Most electronics solder will have a flux core. Flux is key to preventing the connection from oxidizing which prevents the the solder from adhering properly. If the solder does not have a flux core, then flux paste should be applied before soldering (like soldering copper water pipe) but don't use plumbing flux as that is acid based. You need to remove acid based flux after use. An iron or soldering gun is better too hot than too cold. A hot iron will just heat up the connection more quickly. One that is not hot enough will lead to a joint where the solder has not adhered properly. A good solder joint will be shiny. Cold solder joints will be dull. Solder should melt and flow into the connection quickly. If you need to hold the solder on the connection for several seconds for the solder to start melting, then the connection is not hot enough. Takes a bit of practice to work quickly. If you heat stranded wire too much, the wire can melt its way through the insulation but you'll learn to balance heat and time with experience.

 

[Mark E. Long]

Soldering just takes practice. It starts with a good mechanical connection so that the wires don't move. I'm not a big fan of people who just lay a wire on a terminal and rely entirely on the solder to make the connection. That should be reserved for solder with a lower lead content that is less soft and not prone to having the conductor work its way loose over time. Most electronics solder will have a flux core. Flux is key to preventing the connection from oxidizing which prevents the the solder from adhering properly. If the solder does not have a flux core, then flux paste should be applied before soldering (like soldering copper water pipe) but don't use plumbing flux as that is acid based. You need to remove acid based flux after use. An iron or soldering gun is better too hot than too cold. A hot iron will just heat up the connection more quickly. One that is not hot enough will lead to a joint where the solder has not adhered properly. A good solder joint will be shiny. Cold solder joints will be dull. Solder should melt and flow into the connection quickly. If you need to hold the solder on the connection for several seconds for the solder to start melting, then the connection is not hot enough. Takes a bit of practice to work quickly. If you heat stranded wire too much, the wire can melt its way through the insulation but you'll learn to balance heat and time with experience.

I had a really cheap iron then discovered that a better iron does indeed make a difference too my friend showed me a few things like you said and warned me about getting the center pin not getting to hot as some have a plastic deal around it . This really does take practice at least for me it did lol and Iam still learning. He pretty much told me the exact same thing you have said but at the end of it you do have some satisfaction that you did these yourself hey and they work great . He did sujest I use canare 2T2s cable it’s only got two leads and is bigger and easier to work with I bought some in bulk . Haven’t tried it yet tho it does look easier to handle looks like the same shielding to . I’ll try your sujestions on that too .

 

[JengaHit]

I think the folks who buy into this crap are out of their minds. I can at least understand why the companies do it.

At least today there are sites like Audioholics and ASR that dispell these myths. In my early days of the hobby in the 90s, before the Internet was a significant player in audio media, many major audio magazines helped propagate these myths--and many well-heeled consumers bought into it. Plus, salesmen in stereo shops pushed expensive cables because they're high-margin profit drivers. Still, it's sad that with more information available this snake oil hasn't gone away.

 

[Pogre]

At least today there are sites like Audioholics and ASR that dispell these myths. In my early days of the hobby in the 90s, before the Internet was a significant player in audio media, many major audio magazines helped propagate these myths--and many well-heeled consumers bought into it. Plus, salesmen in stereo shops pushed expensive cables because they're high-margin profit drivers. Still, it's sad that with more information available this snake oil hasn't gone away.

It's fair to point out that many of the major publishers and salesfolk helped spread the myths. Some of the pseudo scientific talk and sloppy logic they use can be compelling to the less skeptical. It's annoying but I do remind myself that I was duped into Monster rca cables when I made my first real audio purchase.

 

[JengaHit]

It's fair to point out that many of the major publishers and salesfolk helped spread the myths. Some of the pseudo scientific talk and sloppy logic they use can be compelling to the less skeptical. It's annoying but I do remind myself that I was duped into Monster rca cables when I made my first real audio purchase.

Same here, way back in the late 90s. I fell prey to a salesman pitching Audioquest. It was a couple hundred bucks on a 15-ft pair of speaker wire and not thousands, but still.... But then I started reading that audio engineers were actually using $0.50-1.00/ft Canare, Mogami, or Belden to record and mix the music I listen to. And then Audioholics had informative articles that actually tested megabucks cables vs reasonably priced ones.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And yet the recordings people spend megabucks cables listening to are recorded, mixed, and mastered with pro-audio cable like Canare L-4E6S that costs $0.59/ft on pro-audio sites like Markertek.
....

No wonder some recording sound awful. No micro dynamics, no quantum whatever.

 

[mtrycrafts]

And, we have forgotten fuses, quantum fuses.

Quantum Science Audio series Fuses (stereotimes.com)

.... I can at least understand why the companies do it.

Simple, really. There is a market for it. It sells so there is a market for it.
Audio is not alone.

 

[slipperybidness]

And, we have forgotten fuses, quantum fuses.

Quantum Science Audio series Fuses (stereotimes.com)

Simple, really. There is a market for it. It sells so there is a market for it.
Audio is not alone.

oooohhhh....I love the talk about cables and electron spin, then when you read about their product, it is clear that these charlatans do not understand the electron spin quantum state in the slightest!

Spoiler Alert-- The electrons do not spin in the classical mechanics sense of the word!
For photons, spin is the quantum-mechanical counterpart of the polarization of light; for electrons, the spin has no classical counterpart.

 

[jinjuku]

Audioquest has a page about how to spot counterfeit Audioquest cabling....

You should be able to hear the difference.

 

[Pogre]

oooohhhh....I love the talk about cables and electron spin, then when you read about their product, it is clear that these charlatans do not understand the electron spin quantum state in the slightest!

Spoiler Alert-- The electrons do not spin in the classical mechanics sense of the word!
For photons, spin is the quantum-mechanical counterpart of the polarization of light; for electrons, the spin has no classical counterpart.

Boom!

One of my favorite channels.

 

[slipperybidness]

Boom!

One of my favorite channels.

I'll have to give that a watch when I get a chance. Lately, I have been watching a lot of the Neil Degrasse Tyson StarTalk channel.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Audioquest has a page about how to spot counterfeit Audioquest cabling....

You should be able to hear the difference.

So, they admit that all their cables are counterfeit then.

 

[jinjuku]

So, they admit that all their cables are counterfeit then.

I like the fact that they have visual light/led indicators on the cables that have the battery packs.... You should be able to hear the difference when the batteries are dying!

fvking morons.