Perlisten S4b bookshelf speaker review

[dutchholic]

Thank you the "inside information" shadyJ. I like to see evidence of their 100% own production. 100% in house production is not logical for a 2 person startup. From big brands like Focal, B&W, Kef, Harman we know that they have their own production. From most small high end brand we know that they don't have their own production. That they ONLY buy the 2 mentioned materials(cone and beryllium) is not believable. They must buy/source more OEM parts(customized on Perlistens specs.) then only "raw materials".

Even a HUGE brand like B&O buys their drivers at Scan-Speak for their amazing 100.000 dollar Beolab 90 speakers. Making everything in house with your own machines, from woodwork, to bezels, to PCB's, to drivers, to beryllium waveguides, ALL in their own factory for their first speaker launch seems kind of impossible to achieve. It would also not be logical that all these parts, without exceptions, are made 100% in house. Why would they do that?

Erin asked Perlisten about the SB drivers and they said in their email back to him: "We have limited parts right now and are of course gearing up for release in the USA. Parts are landing very soon beginning of next month. Delays in Shipping with Covid have been commonplace so hard to tell exactly the date of release. ". What is meant with "parts" is not specified but it would be logical if they bought many parts from all over the world as an OEM and that they simply do their speaker design and assembly themself in the USA.

Let's not forget that when you look at their website that their team is very small, only 2 persons are mentioned there and the idea was born only 5 years ago.

It's quite a thing to build a full factory for a high end speaker as a startup for:
1. CNC wood production/painting etc.
2. CNC aluminum production/anodising/milling etc.,
3. binding post production/polishing/cnc,
4. pcb/crossover production,
5. metal/bezel production
6. driver/rubber production
7. etc.etc(many materials/components are part of a speaker)

Those things are all quite a specialism, all these parts.
Normally for a small 2 person startup this is impossible, especially for a small market as high end speakers.
Why do you assume that all these things are made 100% in house?

It's way more logical that it went the way that I explained here:
1. That they design a great product.
2. Find the right partners for the production of the parts (and I understand that they already have a "driver factory" so that solely that part is done by themself besides the assembly)
3. That they do the assembly and marketing themself.

They use for example stock photo's for their own speaker presentation on their own website(see proof under here). It's not that hard to make your own product photo's but still they choose "the most easy way". Which is also logical for a small startup company.

I cannot say that they chose the most easy way regarding their speaker design. Of course not, the measurements speak for themself, but you can assume that they outsource what they can do. The same like what they did for their website, it's just more logical. So that they can focus on what they do good and that's designing a great new speaker line!

 

[Eppie]

The S series is the flagship line. It’s expensive because it uses a common waveguide and level of finish and build that competes with the best of the best outside of small boutique brands. A lot of my customers have previously owned Revel and were surprised to find that these were more similar to a Ultima salon in finish quality than an F Be series.

The cheaper speaker you are looking for is the R series. It’s the same concept, waveguide design, but built to a cheaper price point. The R5 tower is the only model available now but a full lineup is coming. If the R series interests you let me know. It’s $3495 each or around $7k a pair MSRP. It uses cheaper drivers but they are still excellent quality.

Thanks Matthew.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

You are not on the right track here. I don't know how much I am allowed to say, but it is possible that Satori driver with the TeXtreme cone might not even exist as it is were it not for Perlisten's engineering team. The people behind Perlisten are very smart and have deep industry involvement for many years. They are not just a couple of dudes building speakers in their garage. There is a decent chance that you already own something that they were involved with.

If course James and I both have inside knowledge of this product and what went into it. The accomplishments of the engineering team and how special the drivers are. So we come from a different place when we respond to these comments.
SB Acoustics is perfectly capable of making excellent high end drivers. They could probably produce something the equal or better to what is in the Perlisten. However, what is available off the shelf is not only not the same but not equal or better. Most of these companies sell drivers that will have mass appeal as an OEM product. Perlisten needed drivers that could achieve certain performance characteristics that unfortunately add a lot of cost

Thank you the "inside information" shadyJ. I like to see evidence of their 100% own production. 100% in house production is not logical for a 2 person startup. From big brands like Focal, B&W, Kef, Harman we know that they have their own production. From most small high end brand we know that they don't have their own production. That they ONLY buy the 2 mentioned materials(cone and beryllium) is not believable. They must buy/source more OEM parts(customized on Perlistens specs.) then only "raw materials".

Even a HUGE brand like B&O buys their drivers at Scan-Speak for their amazing 100.000 dollar Beolab 90 speakers. Making everything in house with your own machines, from woodwork, to bezels, to PCB's, to drivers, to beryllium waveguides, ALL in their own factory for their first speaker launch seems kind of impossible to achieve. It would also not be logical that all these parts, without exceptions, are made 100% in house. Why would they do that?

Erin asked Perlisten about the SB drivers and they said in their email back to him: "We have limited parts right now and are of course gearing up for release in the USA. Parts are landing very soon beginning of next month. Delays in Shipping with Covid have been commonplace so hard to tell exactly the date of release. ". What is meant with "parts" is not specified but it would be logical if they bought many parts from all over the world as an OEM and that they simply do their speaker design and assembly themself in the USA.

Let's not forget that when you look at their website that their team is very small, only 2 persons are mentioned there and the idea was born only 5 years ago.

It's quite a thing to build a full factory for a high end speaker as a startup for:
1. CNC wood production/painting etc.
2. CNC aluminum production/anodising/milling etc.,
3. binding post production/polishing/cnc,
4. pcb/crossover production,
5. metal/bezel production
6. driver/rubber production
7. etc.etc(many materials/components are part of a speaker)

Those things are all quite a specialism, all these parts.
Normally for a small 2 person startup this is impossible, especially for a small market as high end speakers.
Why do you assume that all these things are made 100% in house?

It's way more logical that it went the way that I explained here:
1. That they design a great product.
2. Find the right partners for the production of the parts (and I understand that they already have a "driver factory" so that solely that part is done by themself besides the assembly)
3. That they do the assembly and marketing themself.

They use for example stock photo's for their own speaker presentation on their own website(see proof under here). It's not that hard to make your own product photo's but still they choose "the most easy way". Which is also logical for a small startup company.

I cannot say that they chose the most easy way regarding their speaker design. Of course not, the measurements speak for themself, but you can assume that they outsource what they can do. The same like what they did for their website, it's just more logical. So that they can focus on what they do good and that's designing a great new speaker line!

View attachment 51084
View attachment 51085

You are so far off reality it isn't even funny.

Perlisten is designed and engineered in the USA, it is built in a Chinese factory that is part of a partnership between Perlisten and the larger Chinese facility. A factory within a factory if you will. Everything you think they don't have or can't do they absolutely can and do. All of the manufacturing is handled by staff that are employed by and trained/oversaw by this partnership factory with Perlisten, meaning Perlisten is fully in charge of it. They only make Perlisten speakers.

Nearly all of your assumptions are incorrect. The parts simply refers to the nuts and bolts of the speaker, crossover components, raw materials, etc. They CNC those enclosures themselves inhouse, they build the drivers in house, there is nothing about those drivers that came from anyone else.

The photos were simply because they were focused on getting a new brand on the market as soon as possible. It's very costly and time consuming to do product shots like you seem to be expecting and they simply didn't have the time or resources to do that at the start. The website is being updated and new product shots are being developed. The team is largely made up of folks with a lot of experience in engineering speakers, not necessarily every aspect of running a new company, so there has been some learning there.

As James already said, the core company that existed before Perlisten is responsible for designing, from scratch, a ton of products on the market and likely you have owned or hear or seen something they developed.

A lot more companies, even small ones, make their own drivers from scratch. Even RBH engineers some of their own drivers. Nearly nobody makes every hard and soft part in that speaker. All beryllium diaphragms, including those in Focal, are made by the same company. That is common. Unusually the cone and soft parts are outsourced. Frame is outsourced. Even the voicecoil is often made by a company that specializes in that, even if its a fully customized part. This is a fully unique Perlisten driver set, SB Acoustics has absolutely nothing to do with them.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Perlisten makes really good stuff, but, unfortunately, it's bang for the buck is nonexistent. All of their products are way too expensive for their performance.

I'm also a bit dubious of the DPC waveguide in so much that a long ribbon driver would accomplish the same effect while offering higher sensitivity for a lower price.

While Perslisten isn't nearly as ridiculous as as Wilson Audio when it comes to value, it certainly isn't a leader in that aspect.

They seem to be using the Satori MW16TX-4. That's a $300 driver at Madisound. Add a Real ribbon for $760. So, for about $2.1K, you can buy the drivers retail. Spend $1K for custom cabinets. You now have $5K left to buy amps & a DSP crossover and you have a much better system that's active and powered.

Also for $6K, ATC and Genelec (to name a few) make some tremendous powered monitors that will be as good or better.

This has a number of inaccurate assumptions.

As already said many times, their drivers are made in house, not Satori.

The DPC works quite well, proof is in the pudding, no? I'm puzzled by your claims about performance? There is nothing better for the same price in that size class.

As for active speakers, Genelec active speakers of the same output class as the S4B would cost over twice as much. These actually have a lot more output than most bookshelf sized speakers, pro or residential. I am not aware of any that can play as loud.

The DPC has higher sensitivity than you probably realize. It's WAY padded down. The Ribbon wouldn't have the horizontal control and wouldn't be as smooth vertically.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. There is no definition of value that can be objectively placed on a speaker. It's an opinion. You clearly could care less about the finish. But finish and build are among the more expensive parts of producing a speaker. Luxury speakers have higher end finishes and that causes an exponential increase in price. These are finished better than most speakers. The higher end drivers also tend to cost a lot more for a small improvement. Getting an extra 2 dB of clean output, a fractional improvement in distortion, or a smoother response by a small amount (+/- .5dB vs +/- 2dB can increase a speakers cost 3 fold easily). I would argue that these are a stupendous value simply because the closest competitors in both performance and finish are more expensive by a substantial degree. While there are speakers that offer similarly good spin data for half the price, they don't have either the finish or output of these, which restricts them to smaller systems.

 

[dutchholic]

If course James and I both have inside knowledge of this product and what went into it. The accomplishments of the engineering team and how special the drivers are. So we come from a different place when we respond to these comments.
SB Acoustics is perfectly capable of making excellent high end drivers. They could probably produce something the equal or better to what is in the Perlisten. However, what is available off the shelf is not only not the same but not equal or better. Most of these companies sell drivers that will have mass appeal as an OEM product. Perlisten needed drivers that could achieve certain performance characteristics that unfortunately add a lot of cost

You are so far off reality it isn't even funny.

Perlisten is designed and engineered in the USA, it is built in a Chinese factory that is part of a partnership between Perlisten and the larger Chinese facility. A factory within a factory if you will. Everything you think they don't have or can't do they absolutely can and do. All of the manufacturing is handled by staff that are employed by and trained/oversaw by this partnership factory with Perlisten, meaning Perlisten is fully in charge of it. They only make Perlisten speakers.

Nearly all of your assumptions are incorrect. The parts simply refers to the nuts and bolts of the speaker, crossover components, raw materials, etc. They CNC those enclosures themselves inhouse, they build the drivers in house, there is nothing about those drivers that came from anyone else.

The photos were simply because they were focused on getting a new brand on the market as soon as possible. It's very costly and time consuming to do product shots like you seem to be expecting and they simply didn't have the time or resources to do that at the start. The website is being updated and new product shots are being developed. The team is largely made up of folks with a lot of experience in engineering speakers, not necessarily every aspect of running a new company, so there has been some learning there.

As James already said, the core company that existed before Perlisten is responsible for designing, from scratch, a ton of products on the market and likely you have owned or hear or seen something they developed.

A lot more companies, even small ones, make their own drivers from scratch. Even RBH engineers some of their own drivers. Nearly nobody makes every hard and soft part in that speaker. All beryllium diaphragms, including those in Focal, are made by the same company. That is common. Unusually the cone and soft parts are outsourced. Frame is outsourced. Even the voicecoil is often made by a company that specializes in that, even if its a fully customized part. This is a fully unique Perlisten driver set, SB Acoustics has absolutely nothing to do with them.

Then I'm suprised and VERY impressed ! Quite an achievement !!

Great to update this thread with clear information.

Edit: Great to have a new brand in the arena. When Perlisten arrives in the Benelux then I will take a chance to listen to them.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Then I'm suprised and VERY impressed ! Quite an achievement !!

Great to update this thread with clear information.

Edit: Great to have a new brand in the arena. When Perlisten arrives in the Benelux then I will take a chance to listen to them.

If you want, I can find out what the current European distribution situation is. If you ever decide to vacation in Sarasota Florida, feel free to reach out and I would be happy to demo the speakers for you.

While I am certain it is technically possible to better these for even more money, I would happily put these up against nearly anything on the market. Take a pair of the larger S7T's and a pair of the D215S and I think many would consider it the finest full range 2-channel speakers they have ever heard.

By the way, I came here because someone mentioned you were a Dutch & Dutch owner? If so, that is a brand I also will be selling. I know Martijn and I'm a huge fan of what he is doing. I love his speakers, their performance and capability are unrivaled in a lot of ways. The 8C is amazing for what it is and I will be having a pair available to Demo in the near future. I don't consider them comparable to the Per listen, two different markets. The Perlisten drivers are more advanced than those used in the 8C, and because of their design approach, are capable of higher output. On the other hand, the 8C has a nearly flat raised DI down to below 100hz, is fully active, and has a computer on board that makes it like a Sonos speaker on steroids. It's upgradable with new features. It's just a really cool speaker.

James and I have talked to the Perlisten engineers about making a fully active option for their speakers, but I don't think that is in the cards any time soon. Their argument is that audiophiles like to roll their own amps, integrators may have a harder time with them, and so it would limit market appeal. Probably true, but could you imagine if these speakers were fully active?

 

[ErinH]

By the way, I came here because someone mentioned you were a Dutch & Dutch owner? If so, that is a brand I also will be selling. I know Martijn and I'm a huge fan of what he is doing. I love his speakers, their performance and capability are unrivaled in a lot of ways. The 8C is amazing for what it is and I will be having a pair available to Demo in the near future. I don't consider them comparable to the Per listen, two different markets. The Perlisten drivers are more advanced than those used in the 8C, and because of their design approach, are capable of higher output. On the other hand, the 8C has a nearly flat raised DI down to below 100hz, is fully active, and has a computer on board that makes it like a Sonos speaker on steroids. It's upgradable with new features. It's just a really cool speaker.

I actually have both the Perlisten s4b and the DD8c on hand so I can speak to them. I agree they aren't really in the same category. Among other things, the Perlisten simply isn't intended to get as low as the DD8c so that alone is what makes the two moot. On sound alone, though, if one were asking which would be better as a full-range speaker anchoring a stereo setup?... the DD8c would take the cake there. But I don't think that would be a surprise at all to anyone who understands the designs.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I actually have both the Perlisten s4b and the DD8c on hand so I can speak to them. I agree they aren't really in the same category. Among other things, the Perlisten simply isn't intended to get as low as the DD8c so that alone is what makes the two moot. On sound alone, though, if one were asking which would be better as a full-range speaker anchoring a stereo setup?... the DD8c would take the cake there. But I don't think that would be a surprise at all to anyone who understands the designs.

Well exactly. And given the massive price difference, you could always add a subwoofer or two and a very nice amplifier with the Perlisten.

personally I am not a fan of judging a speakers merit by bass. Subwoofers are always the better way to produce low frequencies. You can’t fix bad sound with an add on. You can fix lack of bass with an add on.

they are both excellent speakers.

 

[ErinH]

Right. Any back and forth on the topic would really be useless because the two aren't the same. I could make the case for either. But, having said that, one really does need to hear the DD8c. A cardioid speaker like the 8c is really in a different league than conventional speakers. It doesn't mean people will like it. But it's not a decision that should be made "on paper".

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Right. Any back and forth on the topic would really be useless because the two aren't the same. I could make the case for either. But, having said that, one really does need to hear the DD8c. A cardioid speaker like the 8c is really in a different league than conventional speakers. It doesn't mean people will like it. But it's not a decision that should be made "on paper".

A700

Buchardt Audio Active Wireless Floor Standing Speakers

buchardtaudio.com

I was surprised to learn this has a cardioid mode for the rear woofers. I have a client that had these. We engaged that mode and were able to make some Big improvements. It not only improved the measured response and reduced SBIR, but also improved the subjective sound of the bass.

I requested a pair for review once my house is done.

it doesn’t measure nearly as good as the D&as, but it’s a very different and much cheaper speaker, so I am curious if it could be a good option for folks who simply can’t afford the D&D.

I agree that Cardioid loading is a special feature and not to be dismissed out of hand. I’ve talked to Martijn about my dream speaker approach. It would honestly just be a scaled up version of the 8C with 2nd order cardioid bass dispersion.

 

[ppiper21]

I am curious to understand the sonic difference between the Perlisten, Arendal, and Monolith THX speakers. (I think at least the Perlisten and Arendal are designed by the same person and maybe all three.) I am wondering about the law of diminishing returns. What do I get by jumping from the Monolith to Arendal or Arendal to Perlisten? Am I just getting more output or are there significant sonic improvements (e.g. imaging)?

 

[Matthew J Poes]

I am curious to understand the sonic difference between the Perlisten, Arendal, and Monolith THX speakers. (I think at least the Perlisten and Arendal are designed by the same person and maybe all three.) I am wondering about the law of diminishing returns. What do I get by jumping from the Monolith to Arendal or Arendal to Perlisten? Am I just getting more output or are there significant sonic improvements (e.g. imaging)?

That’s a good question. First keep in mind that the Monoprice THX speaker is a fairly different design, and it’s measured performance is not in the same class. Comparing the Monolith to the other two is a bit of an odd duck comparison. The monoliths are far more colored and would have less output. So while good for the money, they aren’t in the same class.

the Perlisten does have more output than the Arendal, but it also has superior drivers and crossovers. So the measured performance is even better, evenless Colored, more effortless (due to higher output without compression or distortion), etc.

Finally, the Perlisten is a higher end product with a higher end build and finish. So while the Arendal is a great value with a very nice finish, the Perlisten is a luxury product. In fact, the Perlisten compares with much more expensive brands in terms of build and finish.

but I get the impression you really wanted some numeric yardstick of the improvement in sound, not looks. Unfortunately it’s hard to measure that. In much the same way that the difference in performance between an economy car, cheap sports car, and cost no object exotic doesn’t really track the cost differences , the same with speakers.All of these speakers produce sound. For home theater purposes, that all produce plenty of sound from 80hz to 20khz. So how much have we achieved? 50%? 60%? 15%? There is no good answer to that. Ok so now we have improved the listening window from +\- 3dB to 1.5 dB. How audible is that? How much of an improvement is that? We have no good research to allow us to easily equate that to some percentage improvement. It’s hyperbole when people do that.

I sell Perlisten and I don’t sell the others. I would love to tell you they kill the others, night and day, everyone needs the Perlisen. 100% better. But I also have scruples and I know that isn’t true. There is no way I can quantify in percentage terms the differences, but I know that as speakers get better and better, the improvements brought by step up brands/models tend to be incremental. Some people simple don’t listen all that critically and those people likely will not be able to hear a difference. They probably couldn’t tell the S7T from a Sonos speaker. For others, that incremental difference is everything and they would spend any amount of money to obtain it. So what is 1% better for one person, could be 50% better for another.

the technical answer is that the Perlisten is that much better than the equivalent Arendal in every way. As it should be for the substantial price difference. I just can’t tell you how much that matters to any one person. It’s a decision they need to make for themselves.

I would probably go back to my car analogy and say that this is a bit like Civic SI (Monolith), BMW M4 (Arendal), and Porsche 911 GT3. I picked these specific models on purpose. The GT3 is a hard edged 911 that many who don’t care about it’s performance couldn’t live with. It’s a brutal but extraordinary sports car. Many who list after it would probably be happy with something less. Perlisten actually has what is probably a better example of a standard 911 S. The R series. The R5T. A more livable yet still amazing sports car. Still many can’t afford a 6 figure sports car, and so an M4 is a pretty nice alternative. It’s not as good in any way, but it costs a lot less and still gets you a lot of performance. For others, this is all a pipe dream, completely out of the realm. The Monoprice, or Civic SI in this analogy, offers a dose of performance at a good entry level price. It’s not comparable in any way with these other two, but for what it is, it’s perfectly fine.

if it were to make claims like the imaging is better, the highs are better, bass is tighter, that would just be a bunch of nonsense I made up. That would be true for anyone. Better is in the eye of the beholder. You would need to listen for yourself and decide if the differences translate to “better” for you.

 

[shadyJ]

That’s a good question. First keep in mind that the Monoprice THX speaker is a fairly different design, and it’s measured performance is not in the same class. Comparing the Monolith to the other two is a bit of an odd duck comparison. The monoliths are far more colored and would have less output. So while good for the money, they aren’t in the same class.

the Perlisten does have more output than the Arendal, but it also has superior drivers and crossovers. So the measured performance is even better, evenless Colored, more effortless (due to higher output without compression or distortion), etc.

Finally, the Perlisten is a higher end product with a higher end build and finish. So while the Arendal is a great value with a very nice finish, the Perlisten is a luxury product. In fact, the Perlisten compares with much more expensive brands in terms of build and finish.

but I get the impression you really wanted some numeric yardstick of the improvement in sound, not looks. Unfortunately it’s hard to measure that. In much the same way that the difference in performance between an economy car, cheap sports car, and cost no object exotic doesn’t really track the cost differences , the same with speakers.All of these speakers produce sound. For home theater purposes, that all produce plenty of sound from 80hz to 20khz. So how much have we achieved? 50%? 60%? 15%? There is no good answer to that. Ok so now we have improved the listening window from +\- 3dB to 1.5 dB. How audible is that? How much of an improvement is that? We have no good research to allow us to easily equate that to some percentage improvement. It’s hyperbole when people do that.

I sell Perlisten and I don’t sell the others. I would love to tell you they kill the others, night and day, everyone needs the Perlisen. 100% better. But I also have scruples and I know that isn’t true. There is no way I can quantify in percentage terms the differences, but I know that as speakers get better and better, the improvements brought by step up brands/models tend to be incremental. Some people simple don’t listen all that critically and those people likely will not be able to hear a difference. They probably couldn’t tell the S7T from a Sonos speaker. For others, that incremental difference is everything and they would spend any amount of money to obtain it. So what is 1% better for one person, could be 50% better for another.

the technical answer is that the Perlisten is that much better than the equivalent Arendal in every way. As it should be for the substantial price difference. I just can’t tell you how much that matters to any one person. It’s a decision they need to make for themselves.

I would probably go back to my car analogy and say that this is a bit like Civic SI (Monolith), BMW M4 (Arendal), and Porsche 911 GT3. I picked these specific models on purpose. The GT3 is a hard edged 911 that many who don’t care about it’s performance couldn’t live with. It’s a brutal but extraordinary sports car. Many who list after it would probably be happy with something less. Perlisten actually has what is probably a better example of a standard 911 S. The R series. The R5T. A more livable yet still amazing sports car. Still many can’t afford a 6 figure sports car, and so an M4 is a pretty nice alternative. It’s not as good in any way, but it costs a lot less and still gets you a lot of performance. For others, this is all a pipe dream, completely out of the realm. The Monoprice, or Civic SI in this analogy, offers a dose of performance at a good entry level price. It’s not comparable in any way with these other two, but for what it is, it’s perfectly fine.

if it were to make claims like the imaging is better, the highs are better, bass is tighter, that would just be a bunch of nonsense I made up. That would be true for anyone. Better is in the eye of the beholder. You would need to listen for yourself and decide if the differences translate to “better” for you.

Nice answer, but the Monoliths have to be considered better than a mere Civic SI. The Civic SI is something that is a cut above a mere utilitarian car, but just one cut. That is like a lower cost Klipsch or Polk. The Monoliths are, at the very least, Civic R-types. Higher performing than most other speakers. Not the final word in high performance, but a real corker for sure. I might even have to promote it to something that has rear wheel drive.

 

[ppiper21]

That’s a good question. First keep in mind that the Monoprice THX speaker is a fairly different design, and it’s measured performance is not in the same class. Comparing the Monolith to the other two is a bit of an odd duck comparison. The monoliths are far more colored and would have less output. So while good for the money, they aren’t in the same class.

the Perlisten does have more output than the Arendal, but it also has superior drivers and crossovers. So the measured performance is even better, evenless Colored, more effortless (due to higher output without compression or distortion), etc.

Finally, the Perlisten is a higher end product with a higher end build and finish. So while the Arendal is a great value with a very nice finish, the Perlisten is a luxury product. In fact, the Perlisten compares with much more expensive brands in terms of build and finish.

but I get the impression you really wanted some numeric yardstick of the improvement in sound, not looks. Unfortunately it’s hard to measure that. In much the same way that the difference in performance between an economy car, cheap sports car, and cost no object exotic doesn’t really track the cost differences , the same with speakers.All of these speakers produce sound. For home theater purposes, that all produce plenty of sound from 80hz to 20khz. So how much have we achieved? 50%? 60%? 15%? There is no good answer to that. Ok so now we have improved the listening window from +\- 3dB to 1.5 dB. How audible is that? How much of an improvement is that? We have no good research to allow us to easily equate that to some percentage improvement. It’s hyperbole when people do that.

I sell Perlisten and I don’t sell the others. I would love to tell you they kill the others, night and day, everyone needs the Perlisen. 100% better. But I also have scruples and I know that isn’t true. There is no way I can quantify in percentage terms the differences, but I know that as speakers get better and better, the improvements brought by step up brands/models tend to be incremental. Some people simple don’t listen all that critically and those people likely will not be able to hear a difference. They probably couldn’t tell the S7T from a Sonos speaker. For others, that incremental difference is everything and they would spend any amount of money to obtain it. So what is 1% better for one person, could be 50% better for another.

the technical answer is that the Perlisten is that much better than the equivalent Arendal in every way. As it should be for the substantial price difference. I just can’t tell you how much that matters to any one person. It’s a decision they need to make for themselves.

I would probably go back to my car analogy and say that this is a bit like Civic SI (Monolith), BMW M4 (Arendal), and Porsche 911 GT3. I picked these specific models on purpose. The GT3 is a hard edged 911 that many who don’t care about it’s performance couldn’t live with. It’s a brutal but extraordinary sports car. Many who list after it would probably be happy with something less. Perlisten actually has what is probably a better example of a standard 911 S. The R series. The R5T. A more livable yet still amazing sports car. Still many can’t afford a 6 figure sports car, and so an M4 is a pretty nice alternative. It’s not as good in any way, but it costs a lot less and still gets you a lot of performance. For others, this is all a pipe dream, completely out of the realm. The Monoprice, or Civic SI in this analogy, offers a dose of performance at a good entry level price. It’s not comparable in any way with these other two, but for what it is, it’s perfectly fine.

if it were to make claims like the imaging is better, the highs are better, bass is tighter, that would just be a bunch of nonsense I made up. That would be true for anyone. Better is in the eye of the beholder. You would need to listen for yourself and decide if the differences translate to “better” for you.

Thanks for the great response. I appreciate the honesty. I have to admit I had hoped you would tell me one had a more chocolatey midrange or my wife would be able to tell the difference from the kitchen ;-)

You're right that better is in the eye of the beholder. I have a pair of 20 year old Dynaudio speakers I am looking to upgrade. I have listened to far more expensive speakers (B&W 705s, JBL L100, Dynaudio Confidence) just to hear something more expensive. They all sounded good but I don't know if, for me, the extra money (especially for the Confidence which I can't really afford) would be worth it. As you said, only I can decide that.

 

[ppiper21]

Nice answer, but the Monoliths have to be considered better than a mere Civic SI. The Civic SI is something that is a cut above a mere utilitarian car, but just one cut. That is like a lower cost Klipsch or Polk. The Monoliths are, at the very least, Civic R-types. Higher performing than most other speakers. Not the final word in high performance, but a real corker for sure. I might even have to promote it to something that has rear wheel drive.

Thanks for weighing in. I am glad to hear your opinion since you have reviewed all three.

 

[Matthew J Poes]

Thanks for the great response. I appreciate the honesty. I have to admit I had hoped you would tell me one had a more chocolatey midrange or my wife would be able to tell the difference from the kitchen ;-)

You're right that better is in the eye of the beholder. I have a pair of 20 year old Dynaudio speakers I am looking to upgrade. I have listened to far more expensive speakers (B&W 705s, JBL L100, Dynaudio Confidence) just to hear something more expensive. They all sounded good but I don't know if, for me, the extra money (especially for the Confidence which I can't really afford) would be worth it. As you said, only I can decide that.

Hah! I can say it if you want. It would be pretty meaningless.

I’ve had prospective clients who compared the purchase of the Perlistens to a current classic speaker they own. They will wax poetic about the current speaker. How much better it was than anything that they have heard since. Sometimes the speaker will be just too old to compare with current designs. Again with the cars, a bit like comparing a sports car of the 90’s to one today. Obviously the new one will be better, that’s what technological advancements do. But will it be better for that owner? I am not so sure. I think these individuals get so attached to what they have that nothing will be able to have the same place in their heart.

 

[ryanosaur]

Hah! I can say it if you want. It would be pretty meaningless.

I’ve had prospective clients who compared the purchase of the Perlistens to a current classic speaker they own. They will wax poetic about the current speaker. How much better it was than anything that they have heard since. Sometimes the speaker will be just too old to compare with current designs. Again with the cars, a bit like comparing a sports car of the 90’s to one today. Obviously the new one will be better, that’s what technological advancements do. But will it be better for that owner? I am not so sure. I think these individuals get so attached to what they have that nothing will be able to have the same place in their heart.

Wise words, good sir.

 

[ErinH]

Here’s my video review (data can be found on my site if interested)

 

[Golfx]

BTW nicely done review


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mikado463]

Nice write up in Stereophile this month by Kal Rubinson and JA on the S4B's big brother S7t.

The new kid on the block has made quite a 'splash' !