Uprade advice

[Motoxer]

Hey. Im an amature audiophile. I just upgraded my paradigm older monitor series 5v4 front, 370 cc adp and 2 10" ultra cube woofers which im keeping. Driving these is a pioneer sc 71. I have assembled paradigm reference studio 100 v3, 490 cc and 20 v3. The pioneer claims to put out 150w per channel (so they claim) but seems to fall short for the reference speakers. I mostly listen to music over theater but want to do both with emphasis on music. Been listening alot in pure direct 2 channel with these 100 v3. So heres the questions i have. Does the pioneer sc71 work with the reference studio speakers. My livingroom is an open floor plan with high cielings so i know ill never get the best performance but im sure it can improve. Should i just add an amp or ditch the sc71 altogether. Imostly stream my music from spotify. I have a good amoint of money to throw at it but id like to get stuff that will work for my house. Dont want to shell out for high end whos potntial will never come thru because my stuation. Im good up to 4000 bucks.
Sorry for the long winded story.

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean does the pioneer "work" with the speakers? You said you've been using it. Does it sound bad at higher volume levels or something? The amps in the avr are fairly good but you can always add an external if you're exceeding the on board amp's capabilities. You can do far better for subs than DefTec super cubes, they're not even true subs.

 

[Motoxer]

What do you mean does the pioneer "work" with the speakers? You said you've been using it. Does it sound bad at higher volume levels or something? The amps in the avr are fairly good but you can always add an external if you're exceeding the on board amp's capabilities. You can do far better for subs than DefTec super cubes, they're not even true subs.

Yes i feel the pioneer is lacking. The subs are paradigm ultra cubes which put out great bass for 10 inchers. Tho id like to do 12s in the future. By adding amps will that help with 2 chan listening

 

[lovinthehd]

Okay, so how is it lacking particularly? You can add more powerful amplification as the avr has pre-outs for front speakers....

Sorry, was thinking of DefTec super cubes, those Paradigm UltraCube 10s look fairly capable for small subs.

 

[MaxInValrico]

Hey. Im an amature audiophile. I just upgraded my paradigm older monitor series 5v4 front, 370 cc adp and 2 10" ultra cube woofers which im keeping. Driving these is a pioneer sc 71. I have assembled paradigm reference studio 100 v3, 490 cc and 20 v3. The pioneer claims to put out 150w per channel (so they claim) but seems to fall short for the reference speakers. I mostly listen to music over theater but want to do both with emphasis on music. Been listening alot in pure direct 2 channel with these 100 v3. So heres the questions i have. Does the pioneer sc71 work with the reference studio speakers. My livingroom is an open floor plan with high cielings so i know ill never get the best performance but im sure it can improve. Should i just add an amp or ditch the sc71 altogether. Imostly stream my music from spotify. I have a good amoint of money to throw at it but id like to get stuff that will work for my house. Dont want to shell out for high end whos potntial will never come thru because my stuation. Im good up to 4000 bucks.
Sorry for the long winded story.

If you're listening to two channel, get a two channel amp.

 

[Motoxer]

Okay, so how is it lacking particularly? You can add more powerful amplification as the avr has pre-outs for front speakers....

Sorry, was thinking of DefTec super cubes, those Paradigm UltraCube 10s look fairly capable for small subs.

So will the amp be used for the whole system or just the fronts. I guess what im asking is if i get a 2 chan amp for the fronts does the pioneer power the otgers for home theater.

 

[Motoxer]

If you're listening to two channel, get a two channel amp.

Can i use 2 chan amp for music and home theater.

 

[lovinthehd]

So will the amp be used for the whole system or just the fronts. I guess what im asking is if i get a 2 chan amp for the fronts does the pioneer power the otgers for home theater.

Can i use 2 chan amp for music and home theater.

The amp would be used for the L/R channels, as that is what your pre-outs provide for. The avr would handle the rest of the speakers with its own internal amps (altho if you had an avr with a full set of pre-outs that could be optional as well). It won't matter what you play thru the avr, the external amp will simply be used on the L/R speakers instead of the internal amp of the avr. You may be over thinking what an external amp will provide, tho.

 

[MaxInValrico]

Can i use 2 chan amp for music and home theater.

Pioneer SC71 has a front Pre-out L/R on the back panel so yes. You would cable the Pre-outs from the SC71 to the inputs on the two channel amp which would then drive the Front L/R speakers. As well, the SC71 is a Class D amp, you may want to consider an A/B Class Amp for the two channel.

 

[Eppie]

Here's a write-up on the Studio 100 v3. Speakers are rated at 8 ohms and the write up on the SC-71 that I found says 120W per channel, not 150W.
With a sensitivity of 88dB anechoic (91 dB in room) I'm surprised that 120W does not seem enough. Some more amplification will get you more dynamic head room at high volumes, if that's what you think is lacking. The Studio 100s should be able to handle some extra power. There are only pre-outs for the two front channels, so the receiver would drive all of the other channels. If it's lacking with 2-channel loud music it's the front amps you need to address any way. Maybe add a Crown amp for the fronts. The others here have experience with Crown and can recommend some models if that's the best way to go.

 

[lovinthehd]

W

Pioneer SC71 has a front Pre-out L/R on the back panel so yes. You would cable the Pre-outs from the SC71 to the inputs on the two channel amp which would then drive the Front L/R speakers. As well, the SC71 is a Class D amp, you may want to consider an A/B Class Amp for the two channel.

Why would you distinguish by amp class?

 

[MaxInValrico]

From my experience, Class D amps seem weak compared to a class A/B.

 

[Motoxer]

Here's a write-up on the Studio 100 v3. Speakers are rated at 8 ohms and the write up on the SC-71 that I found says 120W per channel, not 150W.
With a sensitivity of 88dB anechoic (91 dB in room) I'm surprised that 120W does not seem enough. Some more amplification will get you more dynamic head room at high volumes, if that's what you think is lacking. The Studio 100s should be able to handle some extra power. There are only pre-outs for the two front channels, so the receiver would drive all of the other channels. If it's lacking with 2-channel loud music it's the front amps you need to address any way. Maybe add a Crown amp for the fronts. The others here have experience with Crown and can recommend some models if that's the best way to go.

Amp recommendstions would be welcome. These high tech sudio components and nominclature makes my head spin. Its a rather intense process. Especially when a person is just learning and isnt an electronics person. I was leaning towsrd thebanthem amps only because they are same company as speakers. Is it better to have a pre and power amp seperate.

 

[MaxInValrico]

Amp recommendstions would be welcome. These high tech sudio components and nominclature makes my head spin. Its a rather intense process. Especially when a person is just learning and isnt an electronics person. I was leaning towsrd thebanthem amps only because they are same company as speakers. Is it better to have a pre and power amp seperate.

My Anthem AVR definitely has power to spare. You're AVR essentially would act as the pre-amp sans a separate pre.

 

[lovinthehd]

A Crown XLS amp is a cost effective way to add a bunch of power to see if that's the issue in any case, the XLS1502 would be what I'd aim at (I own several XLS1500s, the gen 1 version of the same amp minus some extra features in gen 2). Still, it's only about a 3-4 dB advantage over your avr's amps. No particular need to use same company's electronics altho if you're Canadian and trying to support companies in Canada that's understandable somewhat. Anthem makes some nice power amps, tho I wouldn't bother with their avrs much.

From my experience, Class D amps seem weak compared to a class A/B.

That would all depend on which particular amp, you can't judge solely by class at all. Some of the best amps are class D and there are poor performing AB amps as well....

 

[mtrycrafts]

From my experience, Class D amps seem weak compared to a class A/B.

Was that through controlled listening tests? Or, just a subjective opinion?

 

[Kingnoob]

From my experience, Class D amps seem weak compared to a class A/B.

Are they rated and order quality alphabetically? I’ve seen a lot of Subwoofer amplifiers class D. So hard to believe class D is weaker. Maybe class D is less efficient ? No way class it’s probably just the electrical schematic or something? Or layout not quality??
As the guy who said above it’s based on quality not letter maybe?

 

[Eppie]

Amp recommendstions would be welcome. These high tech sudio components and nominclature makes my head spin. Its a rather intense process. Especially when a person is just learning and isnt an electronics person. I was leaning towsrd thebanthem amps only because they are same company as speakers. Is it better to have a pre and power amp seperate.

Going entirely pre and pro ups the cost a lot as video pre-processors do not sell in the same volumes as AVRs but you do gain flexibility in amp choices. Going with an AVR for the surrounds and a separate amp for the mains is usually a good compromise.

Bear in mind we're going by your subjective opinion on what might be lacking in your system. Would be ideal if a local dealer could let you try an amp with significantly more power. Around double like the XLS1502 that lovinthehd mentioned. You can sometimes find Crown amps on the used market which could make the trial less costly.

 

[Pogre]

I really believe some better subs will do more than you think. I don't think another amp is going to offer you much, likely nothing. You need to double your power for any significant gains, and by that I mean you only gain 3 dB of volume by doubling your amp power. You'll be able to hit slightly higher volumes cleanly but it will not affect the actual sound quality.

Clean, effortless bass however, can clean up the whole range from top to bottom. I know that's not intuitive but dirty bass has a way of coloring the whole performance in ways you don't pick up on until it's gone. We don't hear distortion in lower frequencies as obviously as we do in the higher ones, but it can affect the overall sound. Once you experience it you get it.

 

[Pogre]

Amp recommendstions would be welcome. These high tech sudio components and nominclature makes my head spin. Its a rather intense process.

It's an expensive one too, for little to no gains.