Denon avr-6700h capable to drive Polk Lsi9 (4ohm)?

[JorgeJ]

I was given a pair of Polk LSi9, receiver options include 6700h I am being told that bi-amp the lsi9 with the height channels will be best. If no bi-amp, needed, am being told to save money and get the 4700 could work. is the 6700h better for the Lsi9? I would like to end with either a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4. Thank you in advance for the help.

 

[PENG]

I was given a pair of Polk LSi9, receiver options include 6700h I am being told that bi-amp the lsi9 with the height channels will be best. If no bi-amp, needed, am being told to save money and get the 4700 could work. is the 6700h better for the Lsi9? I would like to end with either a 7.1.2 or 7.1.4. Thank you in advance for the help.

People will tell you those things if they are the subjective kind who believe in only "trust their ears", when in fact studies after studies have shown that unless they do their comparation listening tests in tightly controlled DBT (double blind test), their reported results should not be treated as facts.

If you believe in facts and measurements, then you can in fact save money and get the 4700. The advantages of the the 6700, from what I can see are:

- Made in Japan, but that does not mean it will be more reliable.
- Better cosmetics, such as gold plated connectors but you can't see them from the front anyway.
- The preamp/DAC might have some minor touch that resulted in marginally better measurements on ASR's bench tests.
- Can process two more channels, if you have use for them.
- Have the DTS:X Pro (not sure if it comes with it or a future FW update) The 4700 has the DTS:X

If the price difference is not too big for you then go for it as you may have use for the additional feature.
Just note that the 4700 and 6700 have virtually the same output limit, the 6700 just have a slightly larger power supply.

As for as whether either one can drive the LSI9 and the other speakers for you, it is not possible to say without knowing you listening habits and seating distance. If you really want to know instead of guessing and listening to those generic hearsay, then you should use an online calculator to find out your estimated power needs, or if you provide the following information, someone (I can do it later today) may chime in and do it for you.

Need to know:
- your mlp to speakers distances.
- you mention the LSI9 for the heights, but how about the LCR and surrounds?
- Do you use the same system for music and do you listen to stereo music, or 5, 7 ch stereo?
- What is the loudest average SPL you will listen to? 85 dB with 20 dB maximum peak would be about as loud as watching a THX movie in a good cinema.
- Will the AVR be placed with ample space for ventilation all around?

 

[lovinthehd]

Here's an spl calculator to play with as Peng mentioned http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

 

[-Jim-]

Forget the bi-amp as it serves no purpose. Please give more details as per Peng's post above and then we can offer better guidance. Thanks.

 

[JorgeJ]

People will tell you those things if they are the subjective kind who believe in only "trust their ears", when in fact studies after studies have shown that unless they do their comparation listening tests in tightly controlled DBT (double blind test), their reported results should not be treated as facts.

If you believe in facts and measurements, then you can in fact save money and get the 4700. The advantages of the the 6700, from what I can see are:

- Made in Japan, but that does not mean it will be more reliable.
- Better cosmetics, such as gold plated connectors but you can't see them from the front anyway.
- The preamp/DAC might have some minor touch that resulted in marginally better measurements on ASR's bench tests.
- Can process two more channels, if you have use for them.
- Have the DTS:X Pro (not sure if it comes with it or a future FW update) The 4700 has the DTS:X

If the price difference is not too big for you then go for it as you may have use for the additional feature.
Just note that the 4700 and 6700 have virtually the same output limit, the 6700 just have a slightly larger power supply.

As for as whether either one can drive the LSI9 and the other speakers for you, it is not possible to say without knowing you listening habits and seating distance. If you really want to know instead of guessing and listening to those generic hearsay, then you should use an online calculator to find out your estimated power needs, or if you provide the following information, someone (I can do it later today) may chime in and do it for you.

Need to know:
- your mlp to speakers distances.
- you mention the LSI9 for the heights, but how about the LCR and surrounds?
- Do you use the same system for music and do you listen to stereo music, or 5, 7 ch stereo?
- What is the loudest average SPL you will listen to? 85 dB with 20 dB maximum peak would be about as loud as watching a THX movie in a good cinema.
- Will the AVR be placed with ample space for ventilation all around?

Thank you Peng for your info. I apologize if I was not clear.
I am trying to use LSi9 (not 6) and they will be FL & FR.

Mostly we watch movies, and we (wife and I) do like it a bit loud specially action stuff. For the most part we watch TV with TV speakers, receiver only on when watching movie. With my old (dead) Onkyo TX-NR1003, i used to use zone 2 with a speaker switch to play music on Yard, or Dining room. And music for the most part was played on ALL SPEAKER Stereo setting. I don't know what db I use...need to pay attention to this.

I think you recommended the 6700h, you ask about its place and ventilation: current place would be enclosed cabinet 34"w x 24" deep x 20"H with 2-4" fans extracting air on the left and right side.

Please see attached image with measurements as you requested. I would use Zone 2 or 3 in any way you recommend I do it, as I am really new to this. Thanks again for your help and time.

 

[JorgeJ]

Here's an spl calculator to play with as Peng mentioned http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Thanks for your calculator. I will save the link and keep it

Here's an spl calculator to play with as Peng mentioned http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

Thank you.

 

[JorgeJ]

Forget the bi-amp as it serves no purpose. Please give more details as per Peng's post above and then we can offer better guidance. Thanks.

Thanks - I have submitted a PDF with the info. Thank you all in advance for the help.

 

[-Jim-]

Jorge,

Thanks for the info, sorry but your proposed layout is somewhat flawed. Check this out for reference: Dolby Atmos 7.1.4 Layout Guide

Try to pull your LF & RF speakers away from the TV wall a couple feet, and also out from the corner about the same amount. (Or as much as your Misses will allow ) The corresponding front & rear Atmos pairs need to be in line with the LF & RF speakers. Perhaps all L& R speakers on the same alignment as your SL & SR speakers.

The location for the forward Atmos speakers (as I expect the 51 inch couch will be the Prime Seating location) will be close to where you've got the Rear Blue Triangles. The rear Atmos speakers would be behind the 51" couch.

You should do the Sub crawl to try to determine the best location for it. See Easy Subwoofer Placement (It may be fine where it is, but you should check it out.) And perhaps center the 51 inch couch across the room. Or perhaps swap it with the 85 inch sofa, and center it instead.

As for receiver, save the extra cash by buying the AVR-X4700 for another Sub if you go for 7.1.2 as you may want a bit more even Bass in a room of over 4,000 cubic feet than a single PB-1000 can obtain. (Assuming an 8 foot ceiling - this volume includes the opening to the Kitchen as the Sub needs to pressurize it all. You may want a second Sub regardless of receiver.) The Rear Atmos Speakers in your diagram are close fit for a 7.1.2 Dolby Atmos 7.1.2 Installation Guide

I hope this is helpful.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Well I agree with Jim in that there a couple flaws here. For your top speaker placement it should look like this.

And the goal is 45° fore and aft. So measure from seated ear height, and that’s how far in front and back you should place them.

It also looks like the surround, and rear surrounds are intended to be in the ceiling? If that’s the case, then I would skip Atmos altogether. It needs the height differential to work.

I have some more granular guides somewhere. If I can find them lol.

 

[-Jim-]

I didn't look up the RCi80s (SL & SR speakers) which are Polk Audio RC80i 2-ways designed for In-Ceiling mounting (but some folks put them in-wall for surround applications), nor did I check the RCi60s which are just 6 inch versions of the RC80i. As William mentions above, if these are already installed in the ceiling, then I too would skip Atmos altogether.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I didn't look up the RCi80s (SL & SR speakers) which are Polk Audio RC80i 2-ways designed for In-Ceiling mounting (but some folks put them in-wall for surround applications), nor did I check the RCi60s which are just 6 inch versions of the RC80i. As William mentions above, if these are already installed in the ceiling, then I too would skip Atmos altogether.

One saving grace might be that if the 60’s are installed, they look like they’d be in good placement for rear tops. Then top front is easy. Surround placement though… could be an issue.

 

[Trebdp83]

These guys rock. So, looking at the picture, can you not swap couches so there are more people near the sweet spot and fewer going up along the wall?

If surrounds and surround backs need to be in the ceiling then atmos is out. If you want Zones 2 and 3, I’d go for the X6700 and a 7.1 setup in the Main Zone and wire up Zone 2 and Zone 3.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

https://www.proaudio.de/de/documents/3d-audio-forum-2019/9-dolby-atmos-home-entertainment-studio-certification-guide/file.html

Here’s a little more deep dive if anyone is interested.

 

[JorgeJ]

I didn't look up the RCi80s (SL & SR speakers) which are Polk Audio RC80i 2-ways designed for In-Ceiling mounting (but some folks put them in-wall for surround applications), nor did I check the RCi60s which are just 6 inch versions of the RC80i. As William mentions above, if these are already installed in the ceiling, then I too would skip Atmos altogether.

Thank You Jim, William, & Trebdp83 for your input.
Looks like I might be screwed for Atmos - SL, SR, SBL, SBR as all are installed on ceiling, as there are no place to mount them to walls, the LSi9's are in the front corner (as Jim immediately caught, wife moved them there). There's a fireplace on the left side, in middle of the entire wall, that is why the sitting area is where it is (layout attached).

The wiring for the possible front Atmos is right above the LSi9's and with plenty of room to move. And those with the possible middle of the room Atmos wiring also allow for all them to be inline with SL & SR on the back

couple more questions gentleman, (thanks in advanced for your time):

To try to save Atmos:
1) Front Height Speakers are possible, would FHL, FHR make a difference? Ceiling is at 8.5 feet, they can be mounted at 4-5 feet so so.
2) If I replace the RCi60/80 with angled speakers like link below, will it make a difference?:
example:

https://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-2-way-Carbon-Surround-Speaker/dp/B017BE4AGW/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2QCPMHO83UF4A&dchild=1&keywords=angled%2Bceiling%2Bspeakers&qid=1634665524&s=electronics&sr=1-5&th=1

Amplifier and Sub:
3) Are we in agreement that the 6700h or 4700h can drive the LSi9's and that bi-amp is not needed?
4) Jim mentioned another sub, should it be the same brand model that I have now? PB-1000?

Again, thank you all for the help

I realized now how important is to be specific, here's the FR Layout:

 

[-Jim-]

JorgeJ,

Thanks for more pieces to the puzzle. My first dumb question (as I expect a wife veto) is can you get a pair of in-wall speakers (or move one of your existing in-ceiling pairs) mounted at ear level slightly behind the 51" couch; or some small book shelf speakers for the LS & RS. It's important to have the surrounds operating at ear level. Their location is much more critical to creating a good sound field then exact position of Atmos speakers. With no ear level surrounds, I'd give up on Atmos. IMHO, a good 5.1 set-up is the first step in creating s decent Atmos system. Without this foundation, I doubt the Audyssey correction in the Denons will be able to compensate for in-ceiling surrounds.

Assuming ear level surrounds, I'd go for a 5.2.4 setup. Use either the installed RCi80s or the RCi60s for the rear Atmos pair (I'd probably use the RCi80s if they are far enough behind the 51" couch, & maybe move the RCi60s to in-wall surrounds). Buy new front Atmos speakers to match whatever you use for the rear ones, and place them in a line (near the rear location in your diagram) from the rear Atmos speakers selected to the front L&R LSi9s (after you nudge them out from the corners as best you can without having to sleep on the couch.)

I'm not familiar with those angled speakers (nor Front Height Speakers) but for your purposes I don't see them helping much at all. The 6700h or 4700h will both drive the system, and bi-amping serves no purpose here. You should do the Sub crawl to try to determine the best location for it first. See if you like the result of all the changes before looking for a second Sub. But you are correct, most here recommend the second Sub to be the same OEM as the first.

It would be helpful to have at least estimated dimensions from the TV Wall to all speakers, but I think you get the idea.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[JorgeJ]

JorgeJ,

Thanks for more pieces to the puzzle. My first dumb question (as I expect a wife veto) is can you get a pair of in-wall speakers (or move one of your existing in-ceiling pairs) mounted at ear level slightly behind the 51" couch; or some small book shelf speakers for the LS & RS. It's important to have the surrounds operating at ear level. Their location is much more critical to creating a good sound field then exact position of Atmos speakers. With no ear level surrounds, I'd give up on Atmos. IMHO, a good 5.1 set-up is the first step in creating s decent Atmos system. Without this foundation, I doubt the Audyssey correction in the Denons will be able to compensate for in-ceiling surrounds.

Assuming ear level surrounds, I'd go for a 5.2.4 setup. Use either the installed RCi80s or the RCi60s for the rear Atmos pair (I'd probably use the RCi80s if they are far enough behind the 51" couch, & maybe move the RCi60s to in-wall surrounds). Buy new front Atmos speakers to match whatever you use for the rear ones, and place them in a line (near the rear location in your diagram) from the rear Atmos speakers selected to the front L&R LSi9s (after you nudge them out from the corners as best you can without having to sleep on the couch.)

I'm not familiar with those angled speakers (nor Front Height Speakers) but for your purposes I don't see them helping much at all. The 6700h or 4700h will both drive the system, and bi-amping serves no purpose here. You should do the Sub crawl to try to determine the best location for it first. See if you like the result of all the changes before looking for a second Sub. But you are correct, most here recommend the second Sub to be the same OEM as the first.

It would be helpful to have at least estimated dimensions from the TV Wall to all speakers, but I think you get the idea.

I hope this is helpful.

Jim, one more question:
I am ready to pull the trigger on the 6700h, and I read it gets hot. Wife (of course) does no like it visible, current cabinet is enclosed 34"w x 24" deep x 20"H with two - 4" fans extracting air on the left and right side. Should that be sufficient? should I buy some other cooling fan?

Thanks again for your time and help.

 

[PENG]

Jim, one more question:
I am ready to pull the trigger on the 6700h, and I read it gets hot. Wife (of course) does no like it visible, current cabinet is enclosed 34"w x 24" deep x 20"H with two - 4" fans extracting air on the left and right side. Should that be sufficient? should I buy some other cooling fan?

Thanks again for your time and help.

Two 80mm infinity fans should be enough.

Amazon.com: AC Infinity MULTIFAN S1, Quiet 80mm USB Fan, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Playstation Xbox Computer Cabinet Cooling : Electronics

Have you use the spl calculator to figure out how much power you need for your SPL requirements and seating distance? I think is it a good idea to do that going in so you know whether you may have a good chance that you need an external power or not. In terms of sound quality for amps, the most important thing is to have the power (voltage and current) required plus adequate headroom so it will need to get close to the amp's clipping point.

 

[-Jim-]

Jim, one more question:
I am ready to pull the trigger on the 6700h, and I read it gets hot. Wife (of course) does no like it visible, current cabinet is enclosed 34"w x 24" deep x 20"H with two - 4" fans extracting air on the left and right side. Should that be sufficient? should I buy some other cooling fan?

Thanks again for your time and help.

I'm a bit paranoid as to cooling Receiver/Amplifiers, so I have 2 of the Fans that Peng recommended above on my Denon AVR-X4400H. (I think he recommended them to me too! Thanks again Peng )

At the moment only one is connected, and its seems to keep it cool. I used a power cube from an old iPhone for the USB power connection. My Atmos system uses an auto sensing power bar. When the X4400H turns on, the bar switches other outlets for auxiliary devices to on (Fans, Blu-Ray, etc.). You may find something like that helpful.

In your case, I'd try it with the present Fans if they are above the receiver (heated air rises), and see if the X6700H gets too warm. Although at $10.99 each it's cheap insurance.

I did some calculations and your set-up will get very loud with the X6700H (or X4700H).

Please let us know what speaker arrangement you decide to go with. And eventually, how it all sounds when setup.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[JorgeJ]

Two 80mm infinity fans should be enough.

Amazon.com: AC Infinity MULTIFAN S1, Quiet 80mm USB Fan, UL-Certified for Receiver DVR Playstation Xbox Computer Cabinet Cooling : Electronics

Have you use the spl calculator to figure out how much power you need for your SPL requirements and seating distance? I think is it a good idea to do that going in so you know whether you may have a good chance that you need an external power or not. In terms of sound quality for amps, the most important thing is to have the power (voltage and current) required plus adequate headroom so it will need to get close to the amp's clipping point.

Thanks Peng - yes i did,
Main Zone: I get 107db (Lsi9 only) and 114 db If I use all speakers (7 - all channel stereo)
Zone 3: with 2 DBX Soundfield V, in another room 65 feet away shows 94.5 db (Not that I will use those and seat 65 feet out...but i was curious.

Fan: I will buy per your recommendation. Thanks

 

[JorgeJ]

I'm a bit paranoid as to cooling Receiver/Amplifiers, so I have 2 of the Fans that Peng recommended above on my Denon AVR-X4400H. (I think he recommended them to me too! Thanks again Peng )

At the moment only one is connected, and its seems to keep it cool. I used a power cube from an old iPhone for the USB power connection. My Atmos system uses an auto sensing power bar. When the X4400H turns on, the bar switches other outlets for auxiliary devices to on (Fans, Blu-Ray, etc.). You may find something like that helpful.

In your case, I'd try it with the present Fans if they are above the receiver (heated air rises), and see if the X6700H gets too warm. Although at $10.99 each it's cheap insurance.

I did some calculations and your set-up will get very loud with the X6700H (or X4700H).

Please let us know what speaker arrangement you decide to go with. And eventually, how it all sounds when setup.

I hope this is helpful.

Thank you again Jim, I just order the fans, Receiver was ordered.
My cabinet is closed in the front. So I will use the 2 fans recommended on top of the receiver, and the 2 existing ones on each side extracting hot air out.

I will definitely share results, thanks again to you and others on the thread who shared their knowledge. One thing is for sure, I have a lot to learn!! Thanks