Adding AMP to AV receiver, klipsch rf 82 yamaha htr 6063

[Of001]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time posting.

Set up:
2x klipsch Rf 82 (not mk2)
1x klipsch RC 500
Yamaha htr 6030
Blue Jean cables
Xbox, TV, PC (basic audio card, nothing special) and about in inherit a nice turntable and warehouse worth of vinyl.
Seating is about 3.5M from away

Problem: low volume
Everything was fine for about a year then I kept having to turn the volume up more and more and now the max is just low.
I took the receiver apart and cleaned it, I live in a dusty area, it was gross lol.
Volume a little better (and stable) but still less than it was new. It's not the speakers, I took them to a friend's place and they rock.

Solutions?
Do I just add more power?
I was thinking of adding a power amp anyways. I've narrowed it down to an emotiva xpa Gen 3 4ch (2x high power, 1 stereo) or something simular. Or am I totally out to lunch?

I live in Canada so my budget is a little constrained. I'm trying to stay under 1400 plus tax, shipping, and duties. I feel like if I get a new AV receiver I need to spend more than my budget to get what I want/need

 

[Verdinut]

Greetings!
Welcome to Audioholics.

I have a few questions for you:
1. It's somehow weird that the output volume started lowering gradually in a rather short period of time. Is it possible that you work in a noisy environment or get entertained in places where music is played at insane levels, and your hearing has been consequently damaged? That might explain the problem.

2. Why would you be interested in getting a 4 channel external amp? Are you thinking of using 2 channels for the front L & R channels and the other two in a second zone or for surrounds?

3. Do you live in or near a large city where you could easily have access to a pro audio shop. Most of them offer audio equipment which you could rent for a very short period of time at a very affordable cost. The Crown power amps are very good and affordable products. You could possibly rent a XLS 1002 2 channel amp and see if it solves your problem. That amp is selling at a very affordable price at $525, and has adequate power to drive your speakers:

Crown XLS1002 DriveCore 2 350W Amplifier [XLS1002] : AVShop.ca - Canada's Pro Audio, Video and DJ Store

Crown XLS1002 DriveCore 2 350W Amplifier [XLS1002] - Amps: The next generation of XLS got a makeover with a sleek new look, a LCD display that is three times larger, and more DSP with higher capabilities. Like its predecessor, the new XLS is ultra-efficient with Crown’s patented DriveCore...

www.avshop.ca

I wouldn't recommend the Emotiva product, as the brand has not shown a good reliability in the past. Moreover, the company will not support any service after the warranty period which is a shame.

As an alternate option to the Crown product, I would recommend a more expensive product, the QSC DCA 1222, one of the Digital Cinema Series of amps which is a very reliable product that you won't be able to kill. It's used in Cineplex theaters all across North America. It features better specs than those of the Crown. It is also kept cool by the use of a fan, and since I assume you are sitting at 3.5 meters from the speakers, you shouldn't hear the variable speed fan. By the way, I am using three of those amps in my HT system:

My 7 Channel System

SYSTEM: MARANTZ SR5010, 3 QSC DCA 1222 AMPS. DRIVING THE FRONT CHANNELS IN ACTIVE BI-AMP CONFIG. QSC DCA 1824 (4 CH. AMP.) FOR SURROUND CHANNELS OPPO BDP-95, REVOX B77, TEAC AN-80 (NR), AUDIO-TECHNICA AT-LP1240, SHURE M97XE, HITACHI HCA-8300, PANASONIC TH-50PZ80U, FURMAN PS-8R, APC H15 FRONT...

forums.audioholics.com

This product is not sold in pro audio shops. It's only available direct from the Canadian distributor:
https://www.sfm.ca/sfm-shop/

DCA 1222

Crystal-clear, breathtaking, seat-shaking cinema sound is here with the DCA 1222 Digital Cinema Amplifier by QSC

www.qsc.com

In any case, keep us posted on the outcome and any experience with external amplification.

 

[TLS Guy]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time posting.

Set up:
2x klipsch Rf 82 (not mk2)
1x klipsch RC 500
Yamaha htr 6030
Blue Jean cables
Xbox, TV, PC (basic audio card, nothing special) and about in inherit a nice turntable and warehouse worth of vinyl.
Seating is about 3.5M from away

Problem: low volume
Everything was fine for about a year then I kept having to turn the volume up more and more and now the max is just low.
I took the receiver apart and cleaned it, I live in a dusty area, it was gross lol.
Volume a little better (and stable) but still less than it was new. It's not the speakers, I took them to a friend's place and they rock.

Solutions?
Do I just add more power?
I was thinking of adding a power amp anyways. I've narrowed it down to an emotiva xpa Gen 3 4ch (2x high power, 1 stereo) or something simular. Or am I totally out to lunch?

I live in Canada so my budget is a little constrained. I'm trying to stay under 1400 plus tax, shipping, and duties. I feel like if I get a new AV receiver I need to spend more than my budget to get what I want/need

Have you done a hard reset of that receiver? That is really the first thing to try. If it is software that has altered the gain, that will probably solve it.

If up to three resets does not correct it, then I suspect that your receiver has a serious fault. It could be that there is a failing voltage regulator causing a falling voltage to some OP amps in the preamp section.

If this receiver has a fault in the preamp section, which is more likely than the power amp section by far, then adding a power amp will NOT solve your problem as the gain structure will still be upset.

What really needs to happen is to drive a line input to 1.2 volts and measure the output at the preouts.

If there is a fault, then the curse is that is usually not cost effective to repair modern electronics and especially receivers. In my view most modern electronics is not sensibly designed, or laid out, which makes service next to impossible, short of changing a major board, which usually costs an arm and a leg. In addition dismantling and reassembly tends to the nightmare scenario.

Things really need to change, as the current situation is just wrong on many levels, and leading to wanton waste and serious pollution.

 

[Of001]

1: not an issue

2: 2 for the towers, 1 for the center ch.
The extra one for an outdoor speaker, saves me from swapping cables

I am a long long way from a pro audio shop

 

[Verdinut]

1: not an issue

2: 2 for the towers, 1 for the center ch.
The extra one for an outdoor speaker, saves me from swapping cables

I am a long long way from a pro audio shop

If you are not interested in pro audio equipment which is less expensive than audiophile stuff, then I would recommend the Monolith 5 channel amp as they don't produce 4 channel products. A good alternate option would be 4 Outlaw 2200 Monoblocks. These two brand products are about the most affordable good audiophile amps. They may be hard at present to get because of the current semiconductor shortage.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah I'd make sure the avr still functions correctly if adding an external amp....and if you end up shopping, better to have a functioning avr and no power amp than a power amp with nothing to act as pre-amp.....

 

[PENG]

1: not an issue

2: 2 for the towers, 1 for the center ch.
The extra one for an outdoor speaker, saves me from swapping cables

I am a long long way from a pro audio shop

As TLSGuy suggested, you should try the factory reset first. Quick question, when you said volume maximum, what is the maximum?

According to Yamaha, it should be:

Volume Control......................................... MUTE / -80 dB to +16.5 dB / 0.5 dB step

So maximum would be +16.5 that no one should crank it that high, most will not go higher than 0.

If it is a low number, say -20, -10, then you might have accidentally set a limit to the volume max, and that would be an easy fix. I highly doubt that is the case because you said this had gone worse and worse..

Again, factory reset may do the trick. If it doesn't that you should measure the pre out voltage to make sure it can reach more than 1 V when laying a the test tone and turn the volume up to say maximum, otherwise buying an external amp won't help.

 

[Of001]

I did the reset, nothing.
But I already bit the bullet and ordered 3x outlaw 2220s

Im still waiting on the Blue jeans cables.
I've just hooked it up with some reasonable RCAs and twine (I ruined my good stuff, hence waiting for new)

Worth every penny. (no duties!) about 1400cad all in
I need to mess around with the settings.
I think I might have found the parent problem though.
In the settings there is a max volume setting.
Everything I can find says it should be - 30db max but mine is showing -20db. I can't see how that would change. I also found a hidden setting for 'volume trim' I min-ed it out and HUGE increase. It was set at neutral so I can't see that being the original issue.

But, I've got probably a 50%increase in volume and infinite increase in depth before I found the trim. 75% top end benefit all in. But, and a big but, I feel like I should be able to push this system to uncomfortable levels. As is, it is just loud. Why have a red line if you can't bounce off it once in a while? Sound stage is expansive and discernable.

I'm so far extremely happy with the upgrade.
And that's running on dental floss and potatoes for source equipment.

 

[Of001]

Also I tried hooking up the AV with trim and everything to max and no difference.
Maybe the output terminals or something? Moot point now

 

[PENG]

Also I tried hooking up the AV with trim and everything to max and no difference.
Maybe the output terminals or something? Moot point now

Did you go through the check/steps I mentioned in my post#7? I read the manual before I posted. If you found the root cause and fixed it that you are all set. If not, worth a try to troubleshoot. If the issue is not addressed, adding the Outlaw amps still won't do much for you, if at all..

 

[Of001]

I did except measuring the output voltage, I don't have a meter.
It is definitely a volume limiter on the AV, max is - 30.
I did a reset twice and went through every menu and can't find a way to change it.

I'm still happy with the outlaws performance upgrade regardless.

 

[PENG]

I did except measuring the output voltage, I don't have a meter.
It is definitely a volume limiter on the AV, max is - 30.
I did a reset twice and went through every menu and can't find a way to change it.

I'm still happy with the outlaws performance upgrade regardless.

Did you follow the instructions on page 81 of the Owner's manual?

If for some reason it won't let you do it, then you really should try initializing the unit to factory conditions. Apparently sometimes people have to do it more than once with some AVR models. I have never experienced that myself though, it always only take one such reset, or sometimes they call "initialize", or just "init" microprocessor etc.

The instruction is on page 94:

I understood you have already done that but please make sure you select "ALL", in order to reset the whole unit to default factory settings. Once reset to default settings, the maximum volume limit should be +16.5