HT thoughts re: center channel - KEF vs Revel vs Dali vs Monitor Audio

[sting004]

Hi all,

New to this forum but have lurked for quite a while. I'm located in Canada.

I have a modest 2.1 setup right now with KEF q350's as my mains and a PB-1000 as my sub. I'm looking to spend a bit and upgrade to a full 3.1 setup, introducing surrounds at a later time.

My listening is probably 40% movies, 40% gaming, 20% music.

While I'm happy with the 350's, I sometimes find them to sound a bit "muddy". At least, I think that's the word I'd use. I've been looking at the following 4 options:

1. Add a KEF Q650c as a center ($700)
2. Upgrade to Revel M16's ($1100) - center would be an issue here, as finding an Infinity center in Canada is impossible, and the C25 seems pricy for what it is
3. Upgrade to Dali Oberon 5's ($1500) and buy the Vokal center
4. Upgrade to Monitor Audio Silver 200's ($1800) and buy the C150 center.

The issue I'm having with 2-4 is they're all 2-way MTM designs which are frowned upon. Thing is, my wife and I are not really ever going to be further than 20 degrees off-axis, so not sure if this matters much.

I've been very tempted by literally every choice here but the KEF's, mostly just to try something new. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you!

 

[kini]

Hi all,

New to this forum but have lurked for quite a while. I'm located in Canada.

I have a modest 2.1 setup right now with KEF q350's as my mains and a PB-1000 as my sub. I'm looking to spend a bit and upgrade to a full 3.1 setup, introducing surrounds at a later time.

My listening is probably 40% movies, 40% gaming, 20% music.

While I'm happy with the 350's, I sometimes find them to sound a bit "muddy". At least, I think that's the word I'd use. I've been looking at the following 4 options:

1. Add a KEF Q650c as a center ($700)
2. Upgrade to Revel M16's ($1100) - center would be an issue here, as finding an Infinity center in Canada is impossible, and the C25 seems pricy for what it is
3. Upgrade to Dali Oberon 5's ($1500) and buy the Vokal center
4. Upgrade to Monitor Audio Silver 200's ($1800) and buy the C150 center.

The issue I'm having with 2-4 is they're all 2-way MTM designs which are frowned upon. Thing is, my wife and I are not really ever going to be further than 20 degrees off-axis, so not sure if this matters much.

I've been very tempted by literally every choice here but the KEF's, mostly just to try something new. Any thoughts or insights? Thank you!

I have the 750/650 across the front and IMO it sounds fantastic. That said the 750s use the same UniQ driver as the 350 and the sound is anything but "muddy". So maybe there is an issue in your setup.

The best thing to do of course is to try some of the other speakers in your own room but being in CA seems to make that more difficult.

 

[Eppie]

Hi, fellow Canadian here. Looks like you've already done your homework. Those are all good bookshelves. The KEF UniQ is known to do well in the midrange and the 650C should make for a good centre. I would try and audition those other speakers in store if possible before trying a replacement. The Revels and Dali will be a lateral move. The MA Silvers might be a noticeable upgrade, but at that price point you are getting close to the price of the KEF LS50. I wouldn't worry about MTM with just the two of you. The narrower dispersion is more of a concern when trying to cover a wider area.

You didn't mention what other gear you have. Pre-amp/Amp, receiver make and model? If using an AVR, any room correction and bass management built in? Have you tried playing with the speaker position? The distance from the wall and the amount of toe-in will change how they sound. Most people point them straight forward or toe-in slightly, but toeing in aggressively (having the crossover point slightly in front of you) can change the sound profile quite a bit. Are you running the speakers full range or do you have them set to small (using a high-pass filter with the sub 80Hz content only going to the subwoofer)? Might be possible to address the muddiness you experience.

 

[sting004]

You didn't mention what other gear you have. Pre-amp/Amp, receiver make and model? If using an AVR, any room correction and bass management built in? Have you tried playing with the speaker position? The distance from the wall and the amount of toe-in will change how they sound. Most people point them straight forward or toe-in slightly, but toeing in aggressively (having the crossover point slightly in front of you) can change the sound profile quite a bit. Are you running the speakers full range or do you have them set to small (using a high-pass filter with the sub 80Hz content only going to the subwoofer)? Might be possible to address the muddiness you experience.

Thank you for your reply. I did not include some basic info! Denon AVR-S750H. They're set to small, 80Hz high-pass filter.

They are quite toed in to the listening position and about 7 inches from the wall with no port plugs. I don't have the option to move them up any closer unfortunately.

 

[Eppie]

Thank you for your reply. I did not include some basic info! Denon AVR-S750H. They're set to small, 80Hz high-pass filter.

They are quite toed in to the listening position and about 7 inches from the wall with no port plugs. I don't have the option to move them up any closer unfortunately.

OK, sounds like you have done the proper setup procedure. How far apart are the speakers, BTW? If they are on either side of the TV close to the screen it is not uncommon to do 2.1 and use a phantom centre image. WIth a centre channel it's preferred to have the speakers 4m (12ft) apart if possible so that the speakers do not interfere with each other. If you are thinking about going 5.1 down the road and are considering the MA Silver, $400 more would get you the KEF LS50 which you could pair with the Q250C centre which is less expensive than the Q650C (either would do). The Q350 would make nice surrounds if you have the space for them. Just throwing some ideas out there.

 

[sting004]

OK, sounds like you have done the proper setup procedure. How far apart are the speakers, BTW? If they are on either side of the TV close to the screen it is not uncommon to do 2.1 and use a phantom centre image. WIth a centre channel it's preferred to have the speakers 4m (12ft) apart if possible so that the speakers do not interfere with each other. If you are thinking about going 5.1 down the road and are considering the MA Silver, $400 more would get you the KEF LS50 which you could pair with the Q250C centre which is less expensive than the Q650C (either would do). The Q350 would make nice surrounds if you have the space for them. Just throwing some ideas out there.

I haven't been too keen on the LS50 route and most reviews suggest the Q150's/350's aren't that far off, and to many listeners, actually sound better. For such a steep price increase I wouldn't want it to be a questionable upgrade.

However I worry that might be the case with the q350's versus the MA Silver 200's (my preference so far, but testing them later this week).

 

[Eppie]

I haven't been too keen on the LS50 route and most reviews suggest the Q150's/350's aren't that far off, and to many listeners, actually sound better. For such a steep price increase I wouldn't want it to be a questionable upgrade.

However I worry that might be the case with the q350's versus the MA Silver 200's (my preference so far, but testing them later this week).

Yes, similar class speaker so may not be a big upgrade but for many the LS50 is "end game", although I have not had a chance to hear them yet. The MA Silver is a good step up from the Bronze line and well reviewed. Just getting harder to find a store where you can listen to them all, which is the real litmus test. It's nice that you get to test them. Let us know what your impressions are compared to the Q350.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you for your reply. I did not include some basic info! Denon AVR-S750H. They're set to small, 80Hz high-pass filter.

They are quite toed in to the listening position and about 7 inches from the wall with no port plugs. I don't have the option to move them up any closer unfortunately.

How do you set just a high pass filter or do you mean crossover? (a crossover is a combination of the high pass filter for the speakers and a low pass for the sub). The LPF of LFE is not a low pass for the sub, it's just a limit on the content of the LFE channel, which is normally 120hz. Limited speaker positioning permanently is one thing, have you tried moving them further from the wall just to test the effect?

 

[stalag2005]

For the price of the Monitor Silver speakers I might suggest the Paradigm 40B Founders Edition speakers. Much improved over the Revel M16. I did a review a while back.