New subs?

[Reckel]

Hey guys, I know I haven’t been on here for quite awhile but need some advice. Initially my better half was fine with the size of the vtf3-mk5s I bought, I have three of them, two up front and one directly behind my second row of seats. Basically the size of them has turned into an issue, I really do not want to sell them but may not win this battle, I’ll likely have to switch to sealed subs.
I would buy the new subs from the money I’d make off the vtf3’s and some money out of pocket if need be but is there anything sealed that would be kind of close to the performance of the vtf3’s? If I go sealed I’m adding a fourth since they’ll have a smaller footprint

 

[XEagleDriver]

Would the form factor of a SVS PC2000 or PC4000 fit the bill and keep the ported output you currently enjoy?

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[shadyJ]

Ouch! It would be tough to find sealed subs that can equal the VTF-3s. If you can give up some bass below 40Hz, I would be looking at some Hsu ULS-15 mk2s or some SVS SB-3000s. The Starke Sound SW15 is reasonably good in deep bass for a sealed design too. If you really don't want to sacrifice much deep bass by switching to sealed, you need subs with very high-displacement drivers, and that is expensive. I would be looking at JTR Captivator RS1 subs or SVS SB16-Ultra subs. The RTJ 18Sub is like a JTR RS1 in an even smaller enclosure. There is also the Deep Sea Sound Mariana 18, but that probably isn't much smaller than the VTF-3.

 

[Reckel]

Would the form factor of a SVS PC2000 or PC4000 fit the bill and keep the ported output you currently enjoy?

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No, it’s going to have to be a smaller box

 

[Reckel]

Ouch! It would be tough to find sealed subs that can equal the VTF-3s. If you can give up some bass below 40Hz, I would be looking at some Hsu ULS-15 mk2s or some SVS SB-3000s. The Starke Sound SW15 is reasonably good in deep bass for a sealed design too. If you really don't want to sacrifice much deep bass by switching to sealed, you need subs with very high-displacement drivers, and that is expensive. I would be looking at JTR Captivator RS1 subs or SVS SB16-Ultra subs. The RTJ 18Sub is like a JTR RS1 in an even smaller enclosure. There is also the Deep Sea Sound Mariana 18, but that probably isn't much smaller than the VTF-3.

Yea, I know I already had asked you this months ago but I’m not looking to drop a bunch of extra money. I’m not exactly sure what I’d get for the vtf3’s, 2k maybe. I’d probably spend another 5-700 extra if I had to. May have to look at 12in sealed subs, idk.

 

[Reckel]

Ouch! It would be tough to find sealed subs that can equal the VTF-3s. If you can give up some bass below 40Hz, I would be looking at some Hsu ULS-15 mk2s or some SVS SB-3000s. The Starke Sound SW15 is reasonably good in deep bass for a sealed design too. If you really don't want to sacrifice much deep bass by switching to sealed, you need subs with very high-displacement drivers, and that is expensive. I would be looking at JTR Captivator RS1 subs or SVS SB16-Ultra subs. The RTJ 18Sub is like a JTR RS1 in an even smaller enclosure. There is also the Deep Sea Sound Mariana 18, but that probably isn't much smaller than the VTF-3.

Never heard of Starke sound, are they good? You ever listened to one? I found 4 reviews on YouTube about them, not much else on them, spec wise they seem legit but can’t find much on them.

 

[Pogre]

Sealed designs are a compromise, period. Unless you're ready to shell out a lot of money you're gonna have to resign yourself to inferior bass.

 

[ryanosaur]

How big is your room? Total volume?

 

[shadyJ]

Never heard of Starke sound, are they good? You ever listened to one? I found 4 reviews on YouTube about them, not much else on them, spec wise they seem legit but can’t find much on them.

Audioholics has an upcoming review of the Starke Sound SW subs, but I don't want to spoil too much!

 

[shadyJ]

Sealed designs are a compromise, period. Unless you're ready to shell out a lot of money you're gonna have to resign yourself to inferior bass.

He will lose a significant amount of headroom in deep bass below 30Hz, but decent three sealed subs can still amount to a pretty good sound. Let's be honest, was he really using the headroom of 3 VTF-3s? That seems unlikely unless he wanted a headache every time he used his system.

 

[ryanosaur]

...was he really using the headroom of 3 VTF-3s? That seems unlikely unless he wanted a headache every time he used his system.

Headroom is meant to be used all the time? Is that what I've been doing wrong?

…but decent three sealed subs can still amount to a pretty good sound.

This is why I’m asking about his room size. If the room isn’t crazy large, 3-4 good sealed subs propped up by cabin gain could be quite respectable.
That was Steve’s reasoning back when the three of us were discussing subs prior to my purchase of the Outlaws. He was making a case for 4 of the Sealed Hsus. ...And if the consensus of positive room gain in a room of 3000cu.ft. or less holds water, then anybody employing a squad of capable sealed subs should benefit, yes?

 

[3db]

Headroom is meant to be used all the time? Is that what I've been doing wrong?

This is why I’m asking about his room size. If the room isn’t crazy large, 3-4 good sealed subs propped up by cabin gain could be quite respectable.
That was Steve’s reasoning back when the three of us were discussing subs prior to my purchase of the Outlaws. He was making a case for 4 of the Sealed Hsus. ...And if the consensus of positive room gain in a room of 3000cu.ft. or less holds water, then anybody employing a squad of capable sealed subs should benefit, yes?

Hopefully its not a greatroom in a townhouse. Nice living space but an acoustic nightmare when it comes to getting an even bass response.

 

[shadyJ]

Headroom is meant to be used all the time? Is that what I've been doing wrong?

This is why I’m asking about his room size. If the room isn’t crazy large, 3-4 good sealed subs propped up by cabin gain could be quite respectable.
That was Steve’s reasoning back when the three of us were discussing subs prior to my purchase of the Outlaws. He was making a case for 4 of the Sealed Hsus. ...And if the consensus of positive room gain in a room of 3000cu.ft. or less holds water, then anybody employing a squad of capable sealed subs should benefit, yes?

Most sealed subs are high-pass filtered and don't have the natural 12dB/octave rolloff that would net a lot of gain in a small room. You can always brute force it, however. Four sealed subs should have a good amount of displacement and shouldn't really need to rely on room gain for deep frequency output. Four subs would also go a long way toward smoothing out room modes, and hopefully not much equalization would be required for a smooth response.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I’m also afraid that room gain tends to be overstated. And when talking about bolstering the low end below 30hz, ported subs also benefit from that. So typically a sealed sub will need as many as four to equal the output of a comparable ported sub around 20hz. So while our friend here seems willing to buy three sealed subs to replace his stellar ported ones, he’s not going to get close. I know he has a minidsp and could definitely boost the hell out of the bottom end, but to what distortion levels? The right sealed subs can definitely turn out respectable. But his room is a concrete bunker in a basement. He’s gonna be disappointed…
Btw @Reckel, why did she have such a sudden change of heart? You’ve had that system for what seems like a long time?????

 

[lovinthehd]

How about small but still ported with something like the RSL Speedwoofer 10S?

 

[ryanosaur]

I’m also afraid that room gain tends to be overstated. And when talking about bolstering the low end below 30hz, ported subs also benefit from that. So typically a sealed sub will need as many as four to equal the output of a comparable ported sub around 20hz. So while our friend here seems willing to buy three sealed subs to replace his stellar ported ones, he’s not going to get close. I know he has a minidsp and could definitely boost the hell out of the bottom end, but to what distortion levels? The right sealed subs can definitely turn out respectable. But his room is a concrete bunker in a basement. He’s gonna be disappointed…
Btw @Reckel, why did she have such a sudden change of heart? You’ve had that system for what seems like a long time?????

I definitely don't disagree with you about room gain being overstated. At the same time, we know it exists, and it may have an impact.
To be fair, if our friendly OP was into DIY, he could rustle up some very good drivers, flat packs and amps for about the same cost as buying 4 Uls 15s. I’d be willing to lay money down that 4 SQL 15s in 2 cu.ft cabinets and the proper transform applied would acquit themselves quite nicely at delivering some potent bass.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I definitely don't disagree with you about room gain being overstated. At the same time, we know it exists, and it may have an impact.
To be fair, if our friendly OP was into DIY, he could rustle up some very good drivers, flat packs and amps for about the same cost as buying 4 Uls 15s. I’d be willing to lay money down that 4 SQL 15s in 2 cu.ft cabinets and the proper transform applied would acquit themselves quite nicely at delivering some potent bass.

That would be a very nice build indeed. While it’s wouldn’t fully bridge the gap, I think it would get him a lot closer than anything he could reasonably buy.

 

[ryanosaur]

That would be a very nice build indeed. While it’s wouldn’t fully bridge the gap, I think it would get him a lot closer than anything he could reasonably buy.

According to Nick, the 4cu.ft. box I'm going to build for my first tester is going to get down to 16Hz with a Linkwitz Transform applied in DSP. He doesn't spec what to expect in the smaller recommended box, but we know his drivers thrive in small enclosures.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

According to Nick, the 4cu.ft. box I'm going to build for my first tester is going to get down to 16Hz with a Linkwitz Transform applied in DSP. He doesn't spec what to expect in the smaller recommended box, but we know his drivers thrive in small enclosures.

So. I haven’t noticed a build thread…???

 

[ryanosaur]

So. I haven’t noticed a build thread…???

So I just checked today at the local non-big-box hardware store, and MDF has dropped from over $57 per sheet (3/4"x4x8') to $51.33.
Yay.

The local Baltic Birch supplier has gone from $77 per 18mm x 5x5' sheet (2 mos ago)...
...
...to $140 each.
Boo.

The good news is I can move ahead with building a tester of the sealed sub for sure. Maybe when it comes time for the ported, prices will drop another buck or two... I'll take whatever I can get!

But d@mn, that Baltic Birch that I wanted to use for my final builds is just stupid right now.