To Multi Sub Or Not Multi Sub

[Jeff Taylor]

Hi,

I have an old Paradigm PW-2200 sub (12“ ported) and was considering adding a second sub. However my receiver only allows one delay setting for both sub outputs. The distance difference between the two subs and the listening position would likely be less than 5 feet depending on where I put the second sub.

So what is the collective wisdom? Stick with my exiting single sub or buy a second sub?

Thanks in advance for any advice you may have.

Jeff

 

[Pogre]

If you're co-locating them then separate delay would be recommended. Not to say it can't work, but might not be easy. If you have them both up front, at roughly the same distance then I think you're fine using a single output for 2 of them.

 

[ryanosaur]

If your room is such that they can be placed symmetrically on the front wall and equidistant to the LP, a single output isn't a concern. Especially if the Sub has a variable Phase setting in case it is necessary to adjust one from the other, but otherwise, Level and Distance/delay can easily be managed from that single output.

The more complicated option is in adding a MiniDSP 2x4 and using REW to take measurements and program independent controls for up to four subwoofers from that 1 output. This would allow you the ability to place the subs anywhere in the room to best effect and manage them separately from your AVR.
It's a much depper dive, but many have done it to great effect.

That isn't to say you need to do that, it's just really a matter of preference.
How old is your AVR? What is it? And have you given thought to when it may be ready to upgrade it?

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd prefer identical subs for the multiples, but if you get one close enough to your current one....

If you can't setup a second sub at an equal distance from your seat, you can always add something like a miniDSP to help out.

 

[Jeff Taylor]

I have a 3 year old Anthem MRX-720, so I’m not ready to replace it yet.
I could put the second sub symmetrically along the front wall, but the only potential complication is that one side of the room is open and the other side is next to the side wall.

If your room is such that they can be placed symmetrically on the front wall and equidistant to the LP, a single output isn't a concern. Especially if the Sub has a variable Phase setting in case it is necessary to adjust one from the other, but otherwise, Level and Distance/delay can easily be managed from that single output.

The more complicated option is in adding a MiniDSP 2x4 and using REW to take measurements and program independent controls for up to four subwoofers from that 1 output. This would allow you the ability to place the subs anywhere in the room to best effect and manage them separately from your AVR.
It's a much depper dive, but many have done it to great effect.

That isn't to say you need to do that, it's just really a matter of preference.
How old is your AVR? What is it? And have you given thought to when it may be ready to upgrade it?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

If you have room, I’d try for a rear placement option. All you really need is the phase control on the second sub. I think you’d get modal propagation by separating the subs, and you’d get potential nearfield tactile response(TR). Plus, being closer to the LP should mean using the phase control should easily add enough cycles to line up with the farther sub. I would recommend at least an spl meter though. That way when you run the test tone, and you adjust the phase on the rear sub, you can see when you get the most spl. That’s where you want to set the phase. It’s quick and dirty but will get you very close. That’s what I would do even if it wasn’t going in the back.
However. If your inclined, this could be nice opportunity to get into a pair of upgraded subs.

 

[ryanosaur]

I have a 3 year old Anthem MRX-720, so I’m not ready to replace it yet.
I could put the second sub symmetrically along the front wall, but the only potential complication is that one side of the room is open and the other side is next to the side wall.

An almost $4K AVR that doesn't offer independent Subwoofer control!??!
Everytime I think I may want to look at an Anthem product I'm reminded of why I don't. The Cost vs Performance ration is just not worth it.
I don't mean that as a dig on you, but Anthem should've known better. 3 year old Denon and Marantz receivers at half the cost offer that very friendly feature.

Anyway...
With good subwoofage, what you describe shouldn't be an issue. Unless, you load the corner with your Subwoofer, then it will perform significantly different than the other. If you can keep the sub out of the corner of the room, maintain symmetry L-R and have them equidistant from you, you should be OK.
If this is not the case, you should get into REW and MiniDSP 2x4 with a Umik-1 to be able to take measurements and program the 2x4 to control the Subs.

 

[Jeff Taylor]

The reason I went Anthem is because of ARC. My salesman claimed it was the best in the industry. Not sure if that is true, but I can say that it made a huge improvement in my system. My room setup is far from ideal, but I’m very happy with the results after ARC correction.

Gene has been very adamant about the benefits of multi-sub so I thought it might benefit my not great room, setup but perhaps not. I guess if a get a good new sub and can’t get both subs to play well together I could just replace my existing sub. I’ve had it for 20+ years so I’ve probably gotten my money’s worth.

An almost $4K AVR that doesn't offer independent Subwoofer control!??!
Everytime I think I may want to look at an Anthem product I'm reminded of why I don't. The Cost vs Performance ration is just not worth it.
I don't mean that as a dig on you, but Anthem should've known better. 3 year old Denon and Marantz receivers at half the cost offer that very friendly feature.

Anyway...
With good subwoofage, what you describe shouldn't be an issue. Unless, you load the corner with your Subwoofer, then it will perform significantly different than the other. If you can keep the sub out of the corner of the room, maintain symmetry L-R and have them equidistant from you, you should be OK.
If this is not the case, you should get into REW and MiniDSP 2x4 with a Umik-1 to be able to take measurements and program the 2x4 to control the Subs.

 

[ryanosaur]

The trick with Multiple Subwoofers is in their placement, especially if your room is not a perfect rectangular shape. A great example is when you may have a rectangular room on 4 sides, but have a sloped ceiling like I do. The rules of placement change significantly.
I would urge you to consider the MiniDSP option IF you like to tinker. You will no doubt be able to realize some gains in your bass response, but it will take time to get there. Doing this with the intention of getting a good response is not simply a plug-and-play proposition. IMO, it is worth the effort.

And again, pls don't misunderstand my mini-rant on Anthem. I've heard good things about their Room Correction, too. Regardless, it is what it is.

My recommendation, getting to the heart of it, is if you want to upgrade your Sub, look at it from a 2-year plan... Buy the best Sub for your room that you can now, and start saving for a second. If you do that, you can use your old sub for a while, though it may be the weakest link in your system.
You can add that MiniDSP, and put the old sub closer to your seating position and be able to dial them in very well using REW and the measurement Mic.
Of course, this is IF you want to tinker. If you don't then make the decision to replace the one Sub now, outright, and see what comes of it. Perhaps they will work out together in a positive manner, but it would be better to have two of the same.

 

[Jeff Taylor]

The trick with Multiple Subwoofers is in their placement, especially if your room is not a perfect rectangular shape. A great example is when you may have a rectangular room on 4 sides, but have a sloped ceiling like I do. The rules of placement change significantly.
I would urge you to consider the MiniDSP option IF you like to tinker. You will no doubt be able to realize some gains in your bass response, but it will take time to get there. Doing this with the intention of getting a good response is not simply a plug-and-play proposition. IMO, it is worth the effort.

And again, pls don't misunderstand my mini-rant on Anthem. I've heard good things about their Room Correction, too. Regardless, it is what it is.

My recommendation, getting to the heart of it, is if you want to upgrade your Sub, look at it from a 2-year plan... Buy the best Sub for your room that you can now, and start saving for a second. If you do that, you can use your old sub for a while, though it may be the weakest link in your system.
You can add that MiniDSP, and put the old sub closer to your seating position and be able to dial them in very well using REW and the measurement Mic.
Of course, this is IF you want to tinker. If you don't then make the decision to replace the one Sub now, outright, and see what comes of it. Perhaps they will work out together in a positive manner, but it would be better to have two of the same.

Don’t worry I didn’t take offense. I really appreciate your (and everyones) response. It has all been very helpful.