Dual sub single seat

T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
Hi all,
I am about to purchase 2 Rel predator 1508 Subs. And I was wondering about placement for a single seat. I understand about multi positioning. But given that you can stack Rel Predators. I was curious if anyone had any experience In single position stacking, and how this would compare to multi positions.
many thanks.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
different room positions will allow for smoother bass response throughout the room, widening the sweet spot at even just a single seat LP. Stacking them, what is known as colocated, the 2 subs will behave as one for all intent and purpose.
Both options will boost SPL, with the colocated option giving the biggest boost.
Generally, getting a wider sweet spot seems to win out: it gives greater freedom of being able to move around (bob your head) and greater leeway in seating placement.

Out of curiosity, why are you choosing REL?
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
different room positions will allow for smoother bass response throughout the room, widening the sweet spot at even just a single seat LP. Stacking them, what is known as colocated, the 2 subs will behave as one for all intent and purpose.
Both options will boost SPL, with the colocated option giving the biggest boost.
Generally, getting a wider sweet spot seems to win out: it gives greater freedom of being able to move around (bob your head) and greater leeway in seating placement.

Out of curiosity, why are you choosing REL?
hi,
thanks for your swift response. i was curious if one particular location offered the smoothest/flattest response ie less peaks and nulls if colocating the subs was the way to go. I’m not prejudiced against one theory or the other. Rel for example seem to prefer an ear approach over a room eq approach. (Personal preference obviously)
as for why Rel. Combo of past experience. (Dual T7i) also the Rel Predators have very fast movements. So less sloopy.
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
hi,
thanks for your swift response. i was curious if one particular location offered the smoothest/flattest response ie less peaks and nulls if colocating the subs was the way to go. I’m not prejudiced against one theory or the other. Rel for example seem to prefer an ear approach over a room eq approach. (Personal preference obviously)
as for why Rel. Combo of past experience. (Dual T7i) also the Rel Predators have very fast movements. So less sloopy.
Sorry. quicker response. (Not faster movements) compared for example to svs ultras. which have great output I know.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
As for placement, I'm a fan of the Subwoofer Crawl for finding a few of the better performing locations in the room, say 2 or 3 spots, and then confirming with measurements. Even with Subs, an inch can make a serious difference in performance.
As to measurements, I'm more firmly in the Geddes camp and generally prefer strategic asymmetrical placement off the front wall. While I have not taken my placements to the next level by doing detailed analysis, I did get pretty good spots and am happy with the results.
As I build my new Subs over the next little bit and install them into my room, I will likely move on to that final step and get the Mic out.

Toward the latter comment, we will disagree. ;) Modern designs and modelling programs have largely taken the guess work out of designing a Subwoofer, and while maybe 20 years ago the concept of sloppy bass was still a thing, It is largely now just a stew of Audiophool Dogma and Marketing BS keeping that myth alive.
Obviously, if you buy Polk or Klipsch, you might not be getting the best, but in the ID world, the playing field is very level and major differences come down to personal taste and connectivity requirements.
That said, I haven't really ever heard a negative about REL other than their cost to performance ratio being skewed a little to much toward the former.
Of course, YMMV. :cool:
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
I agree on the sub crawl method. The biggest prob with room eq and other measurement techniques is you can get to fixated on numbers and graphs etc. Trust me I’m a fiend for numbers. And I always like to second guess my ears. Which is idiotic I know. I’m completely replacing entire system. Not just subs. Purchasing Anthem MRX 1140. Anthem Arc is supposedly up there With the best. Anyway I’ll do the crawl then run the numbers afterwards and try not to second guess myself. But I still believe that some sones give better/tighter responses. And I prefer faster rather than deeper.
many thanks Sir.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
different room positions will allow for smoother bass response throughout the room, widening the sweet spot at even just a single seat LP. Stacking them, what is known as colocated, the 2 subs will behave as one for all intent and purpose.
Both options will boost SPL, with the colocated option giving the biggest boost.
Generally, getting a wider sweet spot seems to win out: it gives greater freedom of being able to move around (bob your head) and greater leeway in seating placement.

Out of curiosity, why are you choosing REL?
Except you will get 3 db more output stacking them.

The sides of the room apparently work best.

For other members, Tannhauser was a very naughty boy. However the moral of the story is that there is no end to divine forgiveness as the Pope's staff sprouts green leaves. The Pilgrims chorus is one of the finest, and spectacular moments in all opera.
 
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T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
Yep. But unfortunately people who're into tech are quite often too into tech.:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
Except you will get 3 db more output stacking them.

The sides of the room apparently work best.
generally good point. But room shapes will change that. Not everyone has a square or rectangular room. In other words be careful not to be too attached to “the rules” be flexible.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
generally good point. But room shapes will change that. Not everyone has a square or rectangular room. In other words be careful not to be too attached to “the rules” be flexible.
There is always the Sub Crawl Test. I don't know what you mean, by "too into tech". This is an engineering problem you are asking for advice about. Putting you finger in the air will not advance your cause. Good engineering comes from a good plan and data. By far the best way to solve your problem, is actually investing in measuring equipment and getting hard data. There is no thing as too much tech. The only alternative is superstition. So the highest tech in AV is still in the service of the arts, otherwise it would be pointless.

It sounds to me as if you want us all to put our fingers in the air and contemplate are navels. That will not answer your question, only applied engineering will.
 
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T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
There is always the Sub Crawl Test. I don't know what you mean, by "too into tech". This is and engineering problem you are asking for advice about. Putting you finger in the air will not advance your cause. Good engineering comes from a good plan and data. By far the best way to solve your problem, is actually investing in measuring equipment and getting hard data. There is no thing as too much tech. The only alternative is superstition. So the highest tech in AV is still in the service of the arts, otherwise it would be pointless.

It sounds to me as if you want us all to put our fingers in the air and contemplate are navels. That will not answer your question, only applied engineering will.
My apologies, the point I failed to make was that we dont always trust our ears Enough sometimes we are prone to putting to much emphasis on graphs and numbers.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Faster doesn't make any sense. Might review the bass myths https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

Hope you got a decent deal on those Rels, IMO overpriced for their performance at retail of $1800 each. You can stack just about any sub you want, too, nothing special about stacking Rels, but IME you get better performance by using duals to work with room modes.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
My apologies, the point I failed to make was that we dont always trust our ears Enough sometimes we are prone to putting to much emphasis on graphs and numbers.
Only if you collect the wrong graphs and numbers. Math and physics are totally dispassionate. We now are far enough along to know which measurements matter.

Listening tests have confirmed that most listeners prefer systems with the best measurements, in blinded trials.

Lastly our ears are no good to you, because you are there, and we are here.
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
Faster doesn't make any sense. Might review the bass myths https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

Hope you got a decent deal on those Rels, IMO overpriced for their performance at retail of $1800 each. You can stack just about any sub you want, too, nothing special about stacking Rels, but IME you get better performance by using duals to work with room modes.
Faster doesn't make any sense. Might review the bass myths https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/10-nonsense-myths

Hope you got a decent deal on those Rels, IMO overpriced for their performance at retail of $1800 each. You can stack just about any sub you want, too, nothing special about stacking Rels, but IME you get better performance by using duals to work with room modes.
yeah. That’s what I currently do with my T7i s. Will most likely do the same with mew system. usually get 15-20% discount as I know the retailer.so that’ll help.
thanks for help.
 
Timforhifi

Timforhifi

Full Audioholic
1508 are on sale frequently at $999 and for that price it’s a good option. Anymore I’d go Rythmik or monolith
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
1508 are on sale frequently at $999 and for that price it’s a good option. Anymore I’d go Rythmik or monolith
Yeah I’ve heard excellent things about monolith. However I’m based in London and stockists seem a little harder to find. But I’ll do some online checking anyway.
Thanks for the advice.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
Ah, being outside of US very much leaves limited choices in subs. I'd look at Arendal, BK Elec and XTZ for some european brands if not the generally easily found SVS models....or if Rel comes at a comparative price I suppose, that's just not the case here generally with Rel....
 
T

Tannhauser

Enthusiast
Don’t worry Rel are expensive across the board. It’s not just a case of the U.S market getting scr**ed because of import costs. In fact they have at least one facility your side of the pond. As I said I’m friends with my retailer so I can get what we call in the UK “Mates Rates” (not unfortunately at cost):(:) Part of the reason I’m looking at Rel ,apart from previous experience. Are the reviews. Spare change and Techno Dad on you tube plus others. And the consensus seems to be that you get a tight quick response bass verses a more physical body slam like on some of the SVS models. which supposedly makes it easier to intergrate with the other speakers. Of course it’s all personal preference. Each to their own is my motto.
Again many thanks.
 
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