GR Research Hot topic?

[Hetfield]

I recently like the last 3 days discovered the GR Research YouTube channel and at first I was like, ok interesting but as I kept watch videos I noticed a trend. A lot of times he'll say the response is pretty flat after testing and he'll say about the crossover parts "cheesy" but if it's flat and is designed ok and the speaker sound good why would you replace those parts with what he calls "good quality parts"?
He took an Andrew Jones Elac center channel and said it's great, perfect and said he would just mimick the same crossover design with again "better quality parts" but why? What for?
He also pushes expensive cables so that is a giant red flag to me. I'm be to this dude completely, I mean never heard of him till a few days ago or GR Research. Is it a hot topic? Snake oil here?

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[Pogre]

He also pushes expensive cables

That's all I need to hear. Once that line has been crossed anything else said is automatically suspect in my mind.

 

[Hetfield]

That's all I need to hear. Once that line has been crossed anything else said is automatically suspect in my mind.

Ah so even you never heard of him or GR Research. It was interesting for a second the stuff about speakers but I think mostly BS.

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[NINaudio]

I've heard of them before, their speaker kits look interesting.

 

[its phillip]

The dude promotes a lot of nonsense. Thumbs down from me.

 

[Hetfield]

I've heard of them before, their speaker kits look interesting.

Yes, the speaker kits look really good, good quality for sure but the speaker upgrades seem shaky, expensive cables definitely shaky to snake oil.

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[ryanosaur]

He started off doing videos with new record day. I haven’t watched much of his stuff since he split away. I think it was around the time of the Klipsch mod for the 8000f…
Regardless, yes, he is one of those people who think electrons need to be massaged, petted and cooed to.

 

[NINaudio]

Yes, the speaker kits look really good, good quality for sure but the speaker upgrades seem shaky, expensive cables definitely shaky to snake oil.

Yeah, I'd be interested in a couple of the kits, but I'd for sure pass on the "upgrades" they offer.

 

[Pogre]

Ah so even you never heard of him or GR Research. It was interesting for a second the stuff about speakers but I think mostly BS.

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I've heard of him. The kits look pretty good, but the tweaky upgrades to existing speakers are something I see suggested against over and over.

 

[Swerd]

GR Research and it's owner have been around DIY speaker kits for as long as I've been following DIY speaker building. One driver sold there, the 5½" M-130 is inexpensive and very smooth. It was made by Peerless of India (probably still is) and it's sold in the USA only by GR Research. The M-130 is a mid-woofer in some of the kits sold by GR Research. Some, but not all, of these kits are decent designs, but could be improved by using better performing tweeters. I have built some very good 2-way design speakers using that M-130 driver, but with different tweeters and crossover.

I never had my hands on any of the other mid-woofers GR Research now offers, and I don't know if they're good or not.

The problem with GR Research, as Hetfield pointed out above, is that it also sells expensive capacitors and other crossover parts as so-called upgrades. The owner also offers upgrade crossover boards, using expensive parts, for other speakers, not GR Research designs. The expensive upgrades are offered without explaining why they are worth the money or effort. So, with GR Research you don't know what you're getting. Good designs, or snake oil?

 

[ryanosaur]

To Swerd’s comment above, one of the early tech-talk videos for NRD, Danny talked about the process of picking that driver and some of the customizations that went into it. Sadly, he like so many others that do these vids missed the teachable moment by ignoring the “why and how” such changes to cone material made and what made the motor structure so desirable for he and his partner. While I don't doubt that he knows his topic, he chose to gloss over any measurements and meaningful details to prattle on aimlessly as he is wont to do.
A great illustration of how one can “learn” from YT without learning a go’d@mn thing.
Paint with a wide enough brush, and those little details just get covered up and forgotten.
*shrugs

 

[vader540is]

Rythmik offers a GR research paper cone driver for one of their subs.

Rythmik Audio servo subwoofer 12" F12G

 

[Alex2507]

I have built some very good 2-way design speakers using that M-130 driver,

Which I now use as surrounds in a 5.1 system to mate with a SongTower front end. Even as stand alone speakers those bookshelves were bitchin'.

The same mid is my MBOW1 3-Ways which is in a 2.1 system in ManTown.

That mid is affordable too. I don't care if he is fleecing the low hanging fruit, that mid is in some nice speakers.

 

[lovinthehd]

I consider Danny not worth following due the various nonsense he pushes. He may put together a decent speaker but the wire/electronic component "quality", meh....

 

[panteragstk]

He started off doing videos with new record day. I haven’t watched much of his stuff since he split away. I think it was around the time of the Klipsch mod for the 8000f…
Regardless, yes, he is one of those people who think electrons need to be massaged, petted and cooed to.

Yeah, I'd be interested in a couple of the kits, but I'd for sure pass on the "upgrades" they offer.

If only we had someone who literally dealt with smashing atoms (probably) into each other for a living that could explain why that's a pile of horse sh!t.

 

[panteragstk]

GR Research and it's owner have been around DIY speaker kits for as long as I've been following DIY speaker building. One driver sold there, the 5½" M-130 is inexpensive and very smooth. It was made by Peerless of India (probably still is) and it's sold in the USA only by GR Research. The M-130 is a mid-woofer in some of the kits sold by GR Research. Some, but not all, of these kits are decent designs, but could be improved by using better performing tweeters. I have built some very good 2-way design speakers using that M-130 driver, but with different tweeters and crossover.

I never had my hands on any of the other mid-woofers GR Research now offers, and I don't know if they're good or not.

The problem with GR Research, as Hetfield pointed out above, is that it also sells expensive capacitors and other crossover parts as so-called upgrades. The owner also offers upgrade crossover boards, using expensive parts, for other speakers, not GR Research designs. The expensive upgrades are offered without explaining why they are worth the money or effort. So, with GR Research you don't know what you're getting. Good designs, or snake oil?

Agreed. They've been around for a lot of years. I've been hearing about them in the DIY community for a long time, but never made any of their designs. I guess I never paid the owner any attention.

 

[Verdinut]

I never had my hands on any of the other mid-woofers GR Research now offers, and I don't know if they're good or not.

If you ever want to try a decent mid-bass woofer to be used in a 2 or 3-way system, it's a bit more expensive than the GR Research M-130, but it's very well built and designed by an engineer who previously was with a Scandinavian loudspeaker firm. It's the SB Acoustics SBMFC30-8.

I have installed it as a pair in the 3-way system that I built several years ago and which I sold. It was compared with the Morel CAW538, and it outperformed it in transient response while listening to drums. It's also performing in my surround and SB bookshelves. It is neutral as per its frequency response up to 3,000 Hz for smooth transition to a Air Motion Transformer tweeter:

SB Acoustics SB15MFC30-8 5" Poly Cone Woofer

SB Acoustics SB15MFC30-8 5" Polypropylene Cone Woofer - 150mm- 8 ohm

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[-Jim-]

Gents,

I too have watched quite a few GR Research YouTube videos. Originally I thought he was a well spoken detailed fact based speaker designer. And frankly I think he does know his stuff, but somehow drank some snake oil especially when it comes to cables and their terminations (Tube Connectors). And don't get me started on Power Cords!

I understand why he wants better quality components in crossovers as a lot of OEMS cheap out there to hit a price point. (Andrew Jones, in an interview when he was with Pioneer admitted that balancing out this issue was one of his design goals.) Danny's test data seems to prove that out when he inserts his crossovers into various speakers. Of course we'll never know for sure unless @gene buys a crossover from him for a speaker Gene owns and has already tested, and then tests it again with the new crossover. It would make a great article for YouTube and /or the Review Section of the Forum. It would be great to know once and for all.

Here Randy talks about quality components and beats up on SVS a few times.

Here's not his typical comparison review:
$6400 Paradigm VS $599 Wharfedale

 

[Hetfield]

Gents,

I too have watched quite a few GR Research YouTube videos. Originally I thought he was a well spoken detailed fact based speaker designer. And frankly I think he does know his stuff, but somehow drank some snake oil especially when it comes to cables and their terminations (Tube Connectors). And don't get me started on Power Cords!

I understand why he wants better quality components in crossovers as a lot of OEMS cheap out there to hit a price point. (Andrew Jones, in an interview when he was with Pioneer admitted that balancing out this issue was one of his design goals.) Danny's test data seems to prove that out when he inserts his crossovers into various speakers. Of course we'll never know for sure unless @gene buys a crossover from him for a speaker Gene owns and has already tested, and then tests it again with the new crossover. It would make a great article for YouTube and /or the Review Section of the Forum. It would be great to know once and for all.

Here Randy talks about quality components and beats up on SVS a few times.

Here's not his typical comparison review:
$6400 Paradigm VS $599 Wharfedale

Watched both videos and I just don't know that to make out of it. If the speaker, say the SVS Ultra bookshelf sounds good and crossover is well designed but with what he calls "cheap parts" then what's the difference? What is the speaker going up fail in 2 months because I don't think so.
If it's designed well with the parts they chose what the heck is the difference?

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[-Jim-]

He implies that they would sound a lot better with more expensive parts. But to your point, if they already sound good why bother regardless of the parts quality.
In most of the speaker videos I watched, he does modify them and show you before and after results. Usually his best results are with the really budget speakers, but then his crossover kits can cost as much, or more, than the speakers did! I'd love for Audioholics to review one of these Kits.